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 Super Ready wrote:

nobody wrote:
I didn't see the Blood Ravens listed at all (in case anybody was wondering).

Interestingly enough, they ARE mentioned a couple of times, but only briefly. They're first listed as being of unknown founding, and that goes into a bit of detail about how they've lost all records of their origin, then a little later it's hinted at that the Inquisition has records and is keeping them schtum (which lends SOME credence to the "loyalist Thousand Sons successor" theory).
One of them also shows up in the colour section.

Quite a few of the lesser-known successor Chapters are also fleshed out a bit more, but there's really too many of those to go into detail here.

Yeah my bad, I saw them mentioned in the "unknown foundings" section this morning.

RE: Salamanders colors

There's also a portrait of a helmet-less Salamander in their section, and he appears to have more of a brown skin than black.

I looked up Codex Armageddon (where Sallies made their 3rd edition appearance), and the color photos in there have one model in White skin tones, and one in African skin tones. The 4th ed Space Marine codex (the one with traits), only had one picture of a Salamander with a bare head, and that was in the showcase in the back, where he has African skin tones. Of course, after the 5th ed codex came out, the Salamanders novels indicated the jet black skin with red eyes...

Personally, I'm fine with the idea that the jet black skin/red eyes are a myth that they have no problem perpetuating.

Centurion's have been shoe-horned in as existing since like M36 and Stormravenas are regularly used by all chapters now, otherwise not much else.

Some chapters with little to no background before like Hammers of Dorn, Dark Hunters, and Iron Knights have their backstories expanded. It's all boring, cliche even by 40k standards, and uninspired even by 40k standards.

There's nothing disastrously bad like Ward did with GK/Necrons though, so nothing to worry about.

 Harriticus wrote:
Centurion's have been shoe-horned in as existing since like M36 and Stormravenas are regularly used by all chapters now, otherwise not much else.

Some chapters with little to no background before like Hammers of Dorn, Dark Hunters, and Iron Knights have their backstories expanded. It's all boring, cliche even by 40k standards, and uninspired even by 40k standards.

There's nothing disastrously bad like Ward did with GK/Necrons though, so nothing to worry about.

The Iron Hands might have a wee bit to say about that, if they weren't too busy reorganising their entire command hierarchy because of a single throwaway mistake in the 5th Ed 'dex(Ward mistakenly labelled an IH HQ as "Chapter Master", and rather than just ignore it they're rewritten their entire background around it), and sitting around in a circle intently listening to their new Great Leader who wants to reform the Chapter to get rid of all that nasty bionics nonsense and get them to stop being such meanies

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Centurion's have been shoe-horned in as existing since like M36 and Stormravenas are regularly used by all chapters now, otherwise not much else.

Some chapters with little to no background before like Hammers of Dorn, Dark Hunters, and Iron Knights have their backstories expanded. It's all boring, cliche even by 40k standards, and uninspired even by 40k standards.

There's nothing disastrously bad like Ward did with GK/Necrons though, so nothing to worry about.

The Iron Hands might have a wee bit to say about that, if they weren't too busy reorganising their entire command hierarchy because of a single throwaway mistake in the 5th Ed 'dex(Ward mistakenly labelled an IH HQ as "Chapter Master", and rather than just ignore it they're rewritten their entire background around it), and sitting around in a circle intently listening to their new Great Leader who wants to reform the Chapter to get rid of all that nasty bionics nonsense and get them to stop being such meanies

*pukes a little* no all is good *barf* it's normal for older fluff to evolve as writers mature *wipes of more puke* aaah, who am i kidding..
@Salamanders: Personally I like the jet-black better, and the stark contrast between their devilish appearance and their character. Ofc it can be argued that a natural but darker skin tone is more realistic as a result of the relevant organ overfunctioning. Also, all marines will turn quite dark in high UV environments, except those with defects.

I think you guys should actually read about Stronos before casting cogs and iron hands.
He's not anti-bionic, in fact it's said he epitomizes the dogma of iron over flesh and has an extreme degree of augmentation.
He's also not trying to make the chapter less "mean" or anything, he wants them to use their hatred and bitterness more than simply using logic because he believes just relying on logic is making them weaker. It's about using and mastering their emotions vs just not facing up to them.

Animus wrote:
I think you guys should actually read about Stronos before casting cogs and iron hands.
He's not anti-bionic, in fact it's said he epitomizes the dogma of iron over flesh and has an extreme degree of augmentation.
He's also not trying to make the chapter less "mean" or anything, he wants them to use their hatred and bitterness more than simply using logic because he believes just relying on logic is making them weaker. It's about using and mastering their emotions vs just not facing up to them.

Until this codex, the Iron Hands had no problems harnessing their emotions. They weren't hidebound morons trapped in some daft if>then reasoning loop, just waiting for Great Leader Stronos to come along and teach them the error of their ways, they were all about the application of deep, cold, callous hatred and rage. They rewrote the chapter to be morons with denial issues in order to fit with Stronos's bull****.

In the old background, the death of Ferrus defined them, it was their crucible. Seeing that even a Primarch could fall, and fall to such naked betrayal not just by the brother he loved who killed him, but the loyalists who abandoned him, that nearly destroyed them. They knew Ferrus was dead, they simply believed he would return to them in the end times, a belief a lot of Chapters have about their Primarch even if they are similarly deceased. They tried the Codex at first, but over time came to realise it was just as flawed and open to exploitation as the Legions were, so they began to adopt many of the customs of their homeworld, leading to their divergent structure and command system.

Now, they chucked a hissy fit when Ferrus died, and refused to believe he had died at all. There was no psychic vision of Ferrus as there was in the original background urging them to rid themselves of weakness, instead they actually blame Ferrus for his own death and the fate of the Legion, and so became cheap Star Trek Vulcan-knockoffs. Their Clan-Companies aren't a unique organisational trait, they're just a naming convention for the normal Codex Company system. Their command structure is basically the Codex with "Iron" tacked on to the beginning of everything, the only vague concession to their prior fluff being that the Chapter Master they never had nor needed before is elected rather than appointed by his predecessor.

Thanks Cruddace, this is for you buddy:



Sincerely, the real Iron Hands.

i can explain in the fluff were they have allied if you want?

In the tau codex it mentions that they allied together to fight a tomb world. as the ultramarines was on rout i think to kill the tau, but as the ultramarines got there they all awoke and the only way for any one to win or even survive was to fight side by side. i pretty sure there a refrence of magnius(not sure on spelling) said they have great honor or somthing the ultramarines let the surving tau go out of respect and the have had a mutral relationship since.

Iranna wrote:You either have to move with the times (i.e, accept that Dark Eldar and Eldar are Battle Brothers, Tau/Space Marines work together etc.)

The Eldar/Deldar Battle Brothers thing has never bothered me. I understood from the beginning that it was GW's way of allowing players to run "corsair" lists of Eldar pirates. Just like Guard are Battle Brothers or AoC with almost all of the other armies because the Imperial Guard army list represents far more than just the Imperial Guard, and is intended to be used to represent all kinds of generic human forces, be they traitor Guard, or Tau auxiliaries, or Shrineworld conscripts, etc.

But the whole Tau and Necron relationship with Space Marines seems pretty suspect. I don't believe Space Marines would ever be Battle Brothers with a xenos species. AoC, yes. But BB, no. And I can't imagine a relationship with Necrons ever getting to AoC level either, for any army, let alone Grey Knights, lol. The Necrons ally matrix should have looked like the Tyranid one, but in all blue. Because maybe, just maybe you can come to a temporary understanding, but there's not a chance in heck you trust them. Even Orks aren't that stupid.

KhornedBeef wrote:
Also, all marines will turn quite dark in high UV environments, except those with defects.

Of course, how often is a marine's skin exposed to a high UV environment ? Other than the scouts, astartes spend most of their time when not fighting indoors. When they fight they are wearing helmets. In the end it comes down to how you want to model your marines.

They locked down that former misconception about the final fate of Dorn. They flip-flopped so that now, they never found Dorn's remains, just his hand. So now it's left open whether he's still out there somewhere (presumably under torture by Perturabo?). Before, they found his body and confirmed he was dead, but just kept his hands for special veneration and scrimshaw. Check the sidebar on page 41.

Dr. Lemonade wrote:
They locked down that former misconception about the final fate of Dorn. They flip-flopped so that now, they never found Dorn's remains, just his hand. So now it's left open whether he's still out there somewhere (presumably under torture by Perturabo?). Before, they found his body and confirmed he was dead, but just kept his hands for special veneration and scrimshaw. Check the sidebar on page 41.

That's an old retcon that has already existed for some time before this codex.

 Crimson wrote:
Interestingly on Salamanders section of the miniature gallery, there is a picture of a Salamander librarian without a helmet. He is only Salamander model without a helmet, and his skin is African black as opposed to jet black. If this is a fluff retcon to get rid of that silly jet black skin, I for one welcome it.

Interestingly enough, after digging through the codex more, while the model galleries indicate Salamanders with brown skin the actual fluff section still indicates they have the jet black skin and red eyes.