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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:32:47
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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ansacs wrote:Let me ask this. Is everyone who thinks PA suited people can take an infinite number of shoota and lasgun shots aware that to kill someone in armour you do not have to penetrate said armour. You can cook them alive inside the armour or you can rattle them to death. Heck full plate armour in the middle ages was usually not cleaved to kill the knight but rather a warhammer was used to simply pound the person inside to death.
I could believe a SM took a lasgun to the head...assuming it was angled to skim him. It is much like I could take a bullet but only if it hits me right.
Black carapace is specifically meant to counteract this. Good for you.
Black carapace are right under the skin over the muscle in all places and are ceramite. Thus like similar modern day items they absorb lots of heat, but stay cool.
The lasgun hit him in a very strong part of the skull, direct hit, no penetration, but the marine was still stunned for a second, and in quite a bit of pain.
Edit: I need an upgrade for my meat fingers......
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:35:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:33:47
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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TheSaintofKilllers wrote: ansacs wrote:Let me ask this. Is everyone who thinks PA suited people can take an infinite number of shoota and lasgun shots aware that to kill someone in armour you do not have to penetrate said armour. You can cook them alive inside the armour or you can rattle them to death. Heck full plate armour in the middle ages was usually not cleaved to kill the knight but rather a warhammer was used to simply pound the person inside to death.
I could believe a SM took a lasgun to the head...assuming it was angled to skim him. It is much like I could take a bullet but only if it hits me right.
Black carapace is specifically meant to counteract this.
Black Carapace does not provide any additional protection. It is designed to assist the Marine in linking up with his power armor.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:36:12
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote: TheSaintofKilllers wrote: ansacs wrote:Let me ask this. Is everyone who thinks PA suited people can take an infinite number of shoota and lasgun shots aware that to kill someone in armour you do not have to penetrate said armour. You can cook them alive inside the armour or you can rattle them to death. Heck full plate armour in the middle ages was usually not cleaved to kill the knight but rather a warhammer was used to simply pound the person inside to death.
I could believe a SM took a lasgun to the head...assuming it was angled to skim him. It is much like I could take a bullet but only if it hits me right.
Black carapace is specifically meant to counteract this.
Black Carapace does not provide any additional protection. It is designed to assist the Marine in linking up with his power armor.
It's ceramite.....
Even if its not intended to it WILL provide loads of protection. This is why tyrant guard are made from them.
It has ceramic in it's name. Ceramics are used to make gun barrels and stuff because they can absorb lots of heat and stay cool all things considered.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:37:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:37:25
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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[DCM]
Marshall of the Hagalaz Crusade
Hessen
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Black Carapace
Phase 19: The most distinctive implant, it resembles a film of black plastic that is implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso in sheets. It hardens on the outside and sends invasive neural bundles into the Marine's body. After the organ has matured the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and interface points cut into the carapace's surface.[1][2a][3] This allows a Space Marine to interface directly with his Power Armour.
- not in all places.
- not ceramite.
More like a under the skin USB hub.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:37:44
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Then it would have killed him. See: Gaunt's Ghosts book First and Only, battle of Fortis Binary. Space Marine dies from a single lasgun shot to the face. WHILE wearing a helmet, if memory serves. I'll have to find the book again. No. Again, you are making gak up.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:39:49
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:40:56
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Weltenwolf wrote: Black Carapace
Phase 19: The most distinctive implant, it resembles a film of black plastic that is implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso in sheets. It hardens on the outside and sends invasive neural bundles into the Marine's body. After the organ has matured the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and interface points cut into the carapace's surface.[1][2a][3] This allows a Space Marine to interface directly with his Power Armour.
- not in all places.
- not ceramite.
More like a under the skin USB hub.
Tyrant guard are made from the stuff. The tyranids have lots of good ability on their own to reproduce supertough hides and the like, so for them to use a manmade material in construction of living shields speaks for it's resilience.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Then it would have killed him. See: Gaunt's Ghosts book First and Only, battle of Fortis Binary. Space Marine dies from a single lasgun shot to the face.
WHILE wearing a helmet, if memory serves. I'll have to find the book again.
No. Again, you are making gak up.
Through a helmet......
That's a bit far.
I mean wearing a helmet in real life is enough to stop rifle rounds. With marines they have a lot more to go through than just the helmet.
There's also a MASSIVE difference in resilience of the face with the eyes and nose, and the top of the forehead which was where he got hit.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:47:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:46:23
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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In fact, I would argue that being hit in the black carapace would hurt he marine more than being hit in his bare flesh, due to the surgically implanted neural bundles in it, whihc are designed so that he can link up with power armor. That'd cause quite a bit of pain, more than enough to disorient the marine. It happened. TheSaintofKilllers wrote:I mean wearing a helmet in real life is enough to stop rifle rounds. With marines they have a lot more to go through than just the helmet.
You really don't know much about armor do you.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:48:04
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:51:01
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:In fact, I would argue that being hit in the black carapace would hurt he marine more than being hit in his bare flesh, due to the surgically implanted neural bundles in it, whihc are designed so that he can link up with power armor. That'd cause quite a bit of pain, more than enough to disorient the marine. It happened.
TheSaintofKilllers wrote:I mean wearing a helmet in real life is enough to stop rifle rounds. With marines they have a lot more to go through than just the helmet.
You really don't know much about armor do you.
It would hurt more, but it would still prevent real injury.
Through a helmet? Jeez a particularly strong part of a marine's head is enough to prevent lasguns from doing much with most writers, but a helmet on top of that? Some writer must not like the marines.
Modern day helmets not nearly as thorough as marine helmets reliably block hi caliber pistol rounds, seriously, that's silly.
Edit: And yeah class 3 (4 is anti material proof) BPA is rifle proof. Helmets are thicker and denser, because the head is more valuable. I do know.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:54:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:54:21
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Actually it'd probably cause injury more than real skin because of the sensitive nature of the Black Carapace organ. TheSaintofKilllers wrote:Jeez a particularly strong part of a marine's head is enough to prevent lasguns from doing much with most writers
No, it is not. They are not designed to take multiple direct hits from rifle sized weapons.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:54:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:55:41
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:Actually it'd probably cause injury more than real skin because of the sensitive nature of the Black Carapace organ.
TheSaintofKilllers wrote:Jeez a particularly strong part of a marine's head is enough to prevent lasguns from doing much with most writers
No, it is not.
They are not designed to take multiple direct hits from rifle sized weapons.
Edited.
Type 4 is nearly utterly rifle proof.
Did I say multiple? Enjoy trying to hit the same spot twice......
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 00:56:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:56:01
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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[DCM]
Marshall of the Hagalaz Crusade
Hessen
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TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Tyrant guard are made from the stuff. The tyranids have lots of good ability on their own to reproduce supertough hides and the like, so for them to use a manmade material in construction of living shields speaks for it's resilience.
That's an in-universe rumour from 3rd/4th edition Tyranid Codex, it was never a fact. The 5th edition Codex doesn't even mention it again.
Maybe a paintball round ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:57:02
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 00:57:25
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Weltenwolf wrote: TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
Tyrant guard are made from the stuff. The tyranids have lots of good ability on their own to reproduce supertough hides and the like, so for them to use a manmade material in construction of living shields speaks for it's resilience.
That's an in-universe rumour from 3rd/4th edition Tyranid Codex, it was never a fact. The 5th edition Codex doesn't even mention it again.
Maybe a paintball round ...
Nope may knock off the helmet and draw blood head but it will stop it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:00:21
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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[DCM]
Marshall of the Hagalaz Crusade
Hessen
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Okay, lets test that. You bring your helmet, I bring my old friend G3.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:01:40
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Look up the testing of "Dragon Skin". Took I think 36 hits from 7.62 and no holes went all the way through. Armor has gone such a long way because we have dramatic respect for human life in the current day. Which is on topic  .
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:05:20
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Dragonskin is a horrible failure that was rejected by the military because it was complete and utter gak that utterly failed its testing. The only thing effective about Dragonskin is its marketing campaign.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:05:49
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:07:15
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Weltenwolf wrote:Okay, lets test that. You bring your helmet, I bring my old friend G3.
If it's a modern tech helmet (lot of new technologies with resilient material) it should stop if from being fatal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:08:14
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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TheSaintofKilllers wrote: Weltenwolf wrote:Okay, lets test that. You bring your helmet, I bring my old friend G3.
If it's a modern tech helmet (lot of new technologies with resilient material) it should stop if from being fatal.
More likely than not, you'll just get a hole in your head. Stop getting your information from advertisements on the military channel.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:09:01
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:09:51
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:Dragonskin is a horrible failure that was rejected by the military because it was complete and utter gak that utterly failed its testing.
The only thing effective about Dragonskin is its marketing campaign.
It didn't suffer any complete holes, and it was only rejected due to not being properly tested.
I think you may not understand the strength of the words "utterly failed".
BTW type 4 armor is anti material proof, it is by definition "rifle proof' due to .50 being dramatically stronger. Power armor of any kind is inches thick of ceramite it would take relatively strong tank rounds if it was using modern tech (and it isn't).
Edit: Sisters need a redesign really badly.....
The bust shouldn't even show with friggin E cups but you got those silly boob cups. Imagine how thin they are? Must be recently saved holocaust survivors.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:27:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:13:47
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I saw the test results. It had gaping holes in it. In many of the tests, it was unable to stop a single bullet. In the rest, it was unable to stop the second.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:15:35
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:15:44
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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It was certified type 3, what can I say.
You proved me wrong. I'll take your word on it.
I get the feeling you're stunned I admitted I was wrong
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:22:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:24:55
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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No, it wasn't. It's more that you don't have a shred of evidence to prove your claims, thus you are completely and utterly unable to back them up when people deny that they are true. Let me quote the study from 2007: Pinnacle SOV 3000 level IV Dragon Skin vests suffered 13 first or second shot complete penetrations, failing 4 of 8 initial subtests with ESAPI threat baseline 7.62 x 63mm APM2 Armor Piercing (AP) ammunition. Bottom Line up Front: Dragon skin does not meet required protection standards [emphasis theirs]
Baseline test at ideal ambient temperatures, normal humidity, temperate climate: Notice the gaping holes. Second and third shots were complete penetrations of the armor.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:25:50
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:26:18
Subject: Re:40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:No, it wasn't.
It's more that you don't have a shred of evidence to prove your claims, thus you are completely and utterly unable to back them up when people deny that they are true.
Let me quote the study from 2007:
Pinnacle SOV 3000 level IV Dragon Skin vests suffered 13 first or second shot complete penetrations, failing 4 of 8 initial subtests with ESAPI threat baseline 7.62 x 63mm APM2 Armor Piercing (AP) ammunition.
Bottom Line up Front:
Dragon skin does not meet required protection standards [emphasis theirs]
Baseline test at ideal ambient temperatures, normal humidity, temperate climate:
Notice the gaping holes. Second and third shots were complete penetrations of the armor.
Not winning any fans after I already admitted I was wrong.......
You're losing em. Admitting defeat on the internet is nothing to scoff at.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:30:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:29:58
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I don't care if you admit you were wrong or not. What matters is that actual facts were inserted in to the argument that, up until this point, was nothing but baseless personal assertions and opinions.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:31:13
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:32:52
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:I don't care if you admit you were wrong or not. What matters is that actual facts were inserted in to the argument that, up until this point, was based off of nothing but pointless personal assertions and opinions.
Again type 4 still completely rifle proof (anti material proof) it's the way you're making a victory on only one aspect look like a big win, and how you're handling it when I still have other arguments going.
Admitting defeat in anonymity is admirable, because you have no reason to save face. Especially when it's on only one front of an argument.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/07 01:36:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:50:26
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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You have a complete lack of understanding of what the armor types represent.
There's no such thing as a bulletproof vest. They are more accurately referred to as bullet resistant.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:52:09
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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In the Grim Dark Future of Humanity, the worth of a human life is...
Just my 2 cents.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 01:58:01
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Melissia wrote:You have a complete lack of understanding of what the armor types represent.
There's no such thing as a bulletproof vest. They are more accurately referred to as bullet resistant.
Enjoy trying to penetrate it with a rifle round, when it's made to take a dozen times more abuse. You'd need to hit the same spot a bit...it'll still happen in a firefight
When I see "bullet resistant" I count it as being bullet proof if a bullet within the range of type can't get through it. Because I can just turn to another angle to completely make it impossible to get shot in that spot twice. That's my perception and I've said this multiple times.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 02:01:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 02:01:04
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Then there is no such thing as bulletproof.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/07 02:04:06
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/07 02:03:38
Subject: 40K; The worth of a human life.
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Regular Dakkanaut
You'll find me in the mind's eye
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Because you cut out the criteria of "with only one shot" by misquoting yes.
What about heavy tanks? I don't know if you could do any real damage to an Abrams if you shot it In the same spot with .50 cal 20 times.
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