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My FLGS had one space marine codex left when I walked in at 3 yesterday..... they had 40 to begin with.
I didn't buy it, I just need dice, templates, and a daemon codex. The guy at the counter told me that 20 minutes after selling his first codex, several people already started complaining about nerfs, and broken rules.
One fellow painting a centurion at the table next to the counter chipped in " I think the new codex is very balanced" if he happens to read this by some miracle of the world, I want him to know his paintjob was incredible.

So what do you think? What don't you like? What can I expect from my enemies?

This isn't a thread to piss and moan on, just comment about what you like, love, don't like, or flat out Hate.
thanks guys

Some people have been that the "Exchange bolter for X" rule dosen't work for bikers, simply because the former weapon is TL .

Let's not start that discussion in here, it really needs a FAQ.

But I think it's too early to start with the "OP, broken, nerded"-comments, people have hardly played with them.

I think one thing a lot of people are not taking into account when they say this will kill a riptide. this will kill daemons, this will kill (insert favorite xenos unit here) is that just as it was in the past, I think there will be more space marine vs space marine battles. Especially since it would appear that people have been itching to get their SM armies off the shelves.

So my main complaint is that it appears that within the SM codex there is a strong rock paper scissor feel to it. If you gear up to take down Tau, a different SM build is going to rip you to shreds. I really don't see SM vs SM being a very even match up.

What I'm gathering is that a "balanced" move, shoot, charge army isn't an option any more. You have to gear up for certain enemies?

I need to thumb through the codex when I can.

Im not going to lie, I have a problem with the codex, but not through something like a newer models being "OP" or some broken FAQ needed rule...

The simple fact that a non named Chapter Master, has 4 Wounds....

No offense to the drooler who thought that up, but what the royal turd?...

My chaos lords only have 3 Wounds and they done come base with a 4++.... They can't get Artificer armor and completely bypass Terminator armor restrictions... I don't get this...

I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master.... That urks me... lol

 aapch45 wrote:
What I'm gathering is that a "balanced" move, shoot, charge army isn't an option any more. You have to gear up for certain enemies?

The problem is that the SM codex is a little bit too balanced. It is pretty much a glorified version of the Dark Angel Codex (so business as usual I guess ).

 sing your life wrote:
Some people have been that the "Exchange bolter for X" rule dosen't work for bikers, simply because the former weapon is TL .

Actually, the bikers don't have any wargear called "twin linked boltgun". Their wargear is a "Space Marine Bike".

It's an editing error that creates an impossible situation. Plus it also invalidates a model that has been the same way since the late 80s and the earliest Space Marine bikes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Im not going to lie, I have a problem with the codex, but not through something like a newer models being "OP" or some broken FAQ needed rule...

The simple fact that a non named Chapter Master, has 4 Wounds....

No offense to the drooler who thought that up, but what the royal turd?...

My chaos lords only have 3 Wounds and they done come base with a 4++.... They can't get Artificer armor and completely bypass Terminator armor restrictions... I don't get this...

I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master.... That urks me... lol

Guess you guys shoulda stuck around for that whole "Codex Astartes" thing Guilliman was working then, huh? Instead of wandering off to the Eye of Terror to exchange the perfected processes for creating Space Marines with the twisted and arbitrary rewards of laughing gods who don't care about you except as a means to an end.

Remember, most of the Marines from the Heresy have long sing died or transcended to daemonhood. The guys left over running these warbands are not the best of the best. They're the best of what's left.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Some people have been that the "Exchange bolter for X" rule dosen't work for bikers, simply because the former weapon is TL .

Actually, the bikers don't have any wargear called "twin linked boltgun". Their wargear is a "Space Marine Bike".

It's an editing error that creates an impossible situation. Plus it also invalidates a model that has been the same way since the late 80s and the earliest Space Marine bikes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Im not going to lie, I have a problem with the codex, but not through something like a newer models being "OP" or some broken FAQ needed rule...

The simple fact that a non named Chapter Master, has 4 Wounds....

No offense to the drooler who thought that up, but what the royal turd?...

My chaos lords only have 3 Wounds and they done come base with a 4++.... They can't get Artificer armor and completely bypass Terminator armor restrictions... I don't get this...

I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master.... That urks me... lol

Guess you guys shoulda stuck around for that whole "Codex Astartes" thing Guilliman was working then, huh? Instead of wandering off to the Eye of Terror to exchange the perfected processes for creating Space Marines with the twisted and arbitrary rewards of laughing gods who don't care about you except as a means to an end.

Remember, most of the Marines from the Heresy have long sing died or transcended to daemonhood. The guys left over running these warbands are not the best of the best. They're the best of what's left.

Well, no, they are the best of the survivalists

And actually most of the Warp transcends time and real space into something quite unfathomable Fluff wise a great deal of the marines from the heresy days are still around Chaos Wise.

Better than brother clones though =/

That being said, I dislike that the newer shinier codex gets upgraded generic HQs for no reason =/ Q.Q

GW needs to sell their poster boys as well as they can... and as long as matt ward stays far far away from it all, I don't really care what happens with some of the stats. whats one wound? You could easily say the same of warpsmiths and techmarines. why are warpsmiths inferior and more expensive?

Back to fluff..... it depends on what legion youj are looking at. all the main ones, wordbearers world eaters etc. are FULL of guys from the heresy... matter of fact i'm pretty sure all of the named characters from "the first heretic" show up in "the wordbearers" books.... 10000 years later. those guys should be incredibly difficult to kill.... beggars can't be choosers..., I play daemons so i'm pretty content with it all

"Not the best of the best, they're the best of what's left."

I love that.

The new codex is almost uniformly a buff, not a nerf. I think the bigger question in most people's mind will be whether or not the buff was big enough to compete with the big four.

GoliothOnline wrote:
I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master....

...that costs twice as many points. LITERALLY TWICE. He's a steal, considering that, and Chapter Masters also don't have access to Daemon Weapons which make the Lord *CRAZY* killy. I have to admit that while the other Marine characters have gone down in points I was kind of expecting the Captain and Chaplain to go down a little further. C'est la vie, they're still pretty good value I suppose.

More generally - the Codex as a whole is pretty balanced. Unit by unit it's surprisingly much as it was before - some minor price changes both ways, but nothing too drastic. The only real major differences are Vanguard Veterans, and Chapter Tactics - which frankly was needed to bring Marines up to 6th ed strength levels. Even so, it still doesn't look like they match Tau or Eldar for competitiveness.

Funnily enough, although I agree that most units in the codex got bumped here and there, I find that all my lists are now out of date (unplayable) since my core units now cost too much to field in my preferred configuration. Not a huge complaint, just something that surprised me a little bit.

The Chaos Lord is the CSM version of a Captain. Given the sort of generic approach they took with the CSM codex I think it's safe to say that the rules are oriented more towards building company-sized warbands than legions (thus, Captain-equivalent Lords). I'd say the Daemon Prince is the CSM equivalent of a Chapter Master, having gone through hell and back to achieve daemonhood (and very much likely having a chapter-sized group of followers). Whether either Daemon Princes or Chapter Masters are worth taking, however, is something a different matter.

For the most part I'm very happy with the new book--more so than I was with the DA book. Chapter Tactics is an absolute godsend (though I think it's a shame CSM didn't get a Legion-based equivalent--now there's something to be irked about!). Basic marines decreasing in cost by 2 points is nice, but is somewhat offset by having to pay for Ld 9 sergeants, and also paying more for special/heavy weapons (gone are the days of free missile launchers and flamers). Sternguard got cheaper, too. Bikes seem pretty wonderful, especially when made into troops.

I've heard lukewarm opinions about the new AA tanks, but I *really* love the Hunter. An S7, AP2 missile launcher with Armourbane that can home-in on subsequent turns after missing is gonna be nice for flyer-hunting. Skyfire also works on skimmers, too, so it'll be useful for popping Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar (it's overkill here), and Necro skimmers. And then there's the off-chance you snap-fire it and hit something big on the ground, too.

Honestly its only a minor change to the army and any real effects will be marginal.

Some units got a point increase when geared the way they used to be, and they were the units most used previously. Now SC's are a bit too restricted.

I do like the chapter tactics and they make a decent boost to the game. I played IH chapter tactics today with a rifleman dread. The first turn he got taken down 2 HP's and healed them on the next two turns. I forgot the FNP on my infantry for most of the game. I liked the Las/ML centurions but they were able to camp in some solid 4+ terrain for most of the game and I was able to keep attention off them for long enough for them to do some effective work. Surprised they don't have power fists with the giant power fists they have on the model. If they get charged in CC the dev Cents are going to fade away.

Overall I don't think this codex will bring the SM player to the final tables in a tournament but it does add some strength to the army.

 Super Ready wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master....

...that costs twice as many points. LITERALLY TWICE. He's a steal, considering that, and Chapter Masters also don't have access to Daemon Weapons which make the Lord *CRAZY* killy. I have to admit that while the other Marine characters have gone down in points I was kind of expecting the Captain and Chaplain to go down a little further. C'est la vie, they're still pretty good value I suppose.

More generally - the Codex as a whole is pretty balanced. Unit by unit it's surprisingly much as it was before - some minor price changes both ways, but nothing too drastic. The only real major differences are Vanguard Veterans, and Chapter Tactics - which frankly was needed to bring Marines up to 6th ed strength levels. Even so, it still doesn't look like they match Tau or Eldar for competitiveness.

Cheap and useless... the only reason to ever keep him that cheap is to simply throw a mark at him and unlock something as troops...

then keep him in reserves all game and just hope he never comes on the board... until he's forced to, in which case he'd just die lol

And what artifacts are we talking about here? The Black Mace?.. That thing is NEVER taken on lords simply because of its AP4 uselessness... Sure some will say it has its place, but only effectively on Daemon Princes due to the model being an MC and able to Smash Attack boosting its AP to 2..

I have more luck and better days running the Murder Sword lol
Chaos Lord 65 +; Mark of Tzeentch - 15
Terminator Armor - 40
Murder Sword - 35
Sigil of Corruption - 25
Total = 180 points

Thats a competent build for a Chaos Lord to go toe to toe with a Chapter Master..

where a chapter master who uses shield eternal, a Power fist and artificer armor is 235 points... yet gets another wound, gets ETERNAL WARRIOR... AND a free Str 10 AP 1 Large Blast orbital bombardment.....

Not to point and cry, but I would GLADLY pay an extra 55 points to have EW +1 Wound, +1 Attack and a free Str 10 AP 1 Large blast XD Not to mention the other nonsense they can get =/

I would gladly have not had to deal with turret-mounted bale flamer Heldrakes for months and CSM complaints in the C:SM rumor thread for weeks.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Im not going to lie, I have a problem with the codex, but not through something like a newer models being "OP" or some broken FAQ needed rule...

The simple fact that a non named Chapter Master, has 4 Wounds....

No offense to the drooler who thought that up, but what the royal turd?...

My chaos lords only have 3 Wounds and they done come base with a 4++.... They can't get Artificer armor and completely bypass Terminator armor restrictions... I don't get this...

I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master.... That urks me... lol

You think that your wannabe pirate king can hold a candle to a grand champion of the Imperium who has spent many many years fighting with dedication and will against the enemies of the Imperium? Slowly but steadily rising through the ranks until he finally becomes Chapter Master and leads an entire Chapter or proud warriors?

You've got it totally backwards, dude.

 Wilytank wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Im not going to lie, I have a problem with the codex, but not through something like a newer models being "OP" or some broken FAQ needed rule...

The simple fact that a non named Chapter Master, has 4 Wounds....

No offense to the drooler who thought that up, but what the royal turd?...

My chaos lords only have 3 Wounds and they done come base with a 4++.... They can't get Artificer armor and completely bypass Terminator armor restrictions... I don't get this...

I find it depressing that my Lord of chaos who fought and strived better, slaughtered untold amounts of enemies while navigating the warp, magically is inferior (Not even up to par) INFERIOR to a generic Chapter Master.... That urks me... lol

You think that your wannabe pirate king can hold a candle to a grand champion of the Imperium who has spent many many years fighting with dedication and will against the enemies of the Imperium? Slowly but steadily rising through the ranks until he finally becomes Chapter Master and leads an entire Chapter or proud warriors?

You've got it totally backwards, dude.

I laugh at this

But what comparison fluff wise ever makes sense? There will always be someone to claim the opposite and find something.. Heck we could consider Aun'Shi the greatest melee combatant in the galaxy by fluff standards... XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and just as a heads up, a chapter master would have never fought to the extent of a Chaos marine striving for lordship in the warp.. They are valued FAR too much, by comparison, what a chapter master had achieved in battle a Chaos Lord could have done in a decade for the 10k years of his existence =/

But again, fluff lol

No different than the Pirate Kings looking at their imperial counterparts and calling them pompous ankle biting children by comparison to experience