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Alright, so I play at this hobby place quite regularly.

There is this guy, with a heldrake.

Every time, without fail, when it comes in, it kills around 90% of my lootas with the flame breath attack it does.

Ignores cover, ignores my armor saves, and the rules of how he can place the flame template is insane and it seems no matter what I do.

It comes in, kills 90% of my lootas, then flies around being a jerk.

I'd get two squads of lootas, but guess what? Whenever I do, people complain about me loota spamming.

Oh and we have tourneys every now and then, you're allowed 1 heavy support, 1 elite, 1 fast attack, 1 hq, up to 6 troops, and 1 flier, 1000 point limit. Guess what he always brings?

I'm thinking of turning to using flash gitz as my ranged, simply because they can get a invul save+feel no pain with a painboy, and hit almost as hard as lootaz but have 2 wounds aswell.

What does dakka dakka suggest?

I'd get a Dakkajet and pop in behind that sucker and let out your WAAAGH. That should blow the thing into pieces of scrap metal.

Using 2 squads isn't spamming - I've always seen it as 3 plus squads is spamming.

Otherwise, you could take two units af tactical marines in a space marine army and that counts as spamming
2 squads is having redundancy.

Although if I used 1 heldrake, I'd complain about there being more things that can kill it on the board...

I hear you got Drake problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a Drake ain't one.

I played my Orks regularly vs 3 Drakes and I can say that the only way to beat them is with Dakkajets and Lootas.

Also... Get your Boyz into CC. He can't target you if you are beating the feth out of his CSM.

Puscifer wrote:
I hear you got Drake problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a Drake ain't one.

I played my Orks regularly vs 3 Drakes and I can say that the only way to beat them is with Dakkajets and Lootas.

Also... Get your Boyz into CC. He can't target you if you are beating the feth out of his CSM.

But doesn't your squad of lootaz get burned the first turn the drake comes in?

Also, I really don't want this game to turn into a flier fest. also lootaz shouldn't be in CC.

Snoipah wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I hear you got Drake problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a Drake ain't one.

I played my Orks regularly vs 3 Drakes and I can say that the only way to beat them is with Dakkajets and Lootas.

Also... Get your Boyz into CC. He can't target you if you are beating the feth out of his CSM.

But doesn't your squad of lootaz get burned the first turn the drake comes in?

Also, I really don't want this game to turn into a flier fest. also lootaz shouldn't be in CC.

I had two units of Lootas, maxed out to 15. As someone said earlier... Two units is not spam.

I was referring to Boyz squads with the CC. My opponents tended to go for my Boyz over my Lootas.

If I was playing my Kult of Speed list, the Drakes used to go for the contents of whatever Trukk had been popped. In my horde list, they tended to go for the Boyz.

You shouldn't need to take more than one Dakkajet. I took only one and it did me proud in several games.

Snoipah wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I hear you got Drake problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a Drake ain't one.

I played my Orks regularly vs 3 Drakes and I can say that the only way to beat them is with Dakkajets and Lootas.

Also... Get your Boyz into CC. He can't target you if you are beating the feth out of his CSM.

But doesn't your squad of lootaz get burned the first turn the drake comes in?

Also, I really don't want this game to turn into a flier fest. also lootaz shouldn't be in CC.

It's either the Dakkajet or a Flakkadakka gun trukk.

Your choice.

 Kain wrote:

It's either the Dakkajet or a Flakkadakka gun trukk.

Your choice.

Which book has that?

Snoipah wrote:

 Kain wrote:

It's either the Dakkajet or a Flakkadakka gun trukk.

Your choice.

Which book has that?

IA8.

If you put Lootas in a transport they're less vulnerable to the Drake. Looted Wagons work, but are pretty crap. A Bastion would be a good choice too. But the best by far is a Giant Squiggoth from Forgeworld because its Open Topped and won't explode when it dies, not to mention being like 50 points

Edit: Also, I'd say your club should get over the "Loota spam" - its not like Orks have much else going for them. Bet they all play Taudar too, seems to be the trend

If you go second you can always reserve your lootas. Walk on after the drake comes in and shoot it, you are snap firing anyway so moving does not matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also invest in a mega armor warboss and attach him to the front of the unit. Ten tank the drake saves on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you have a ton of boyz it is also possible to spread them out in such a way that his drake cannot target your lootas effectively

There is a way to space out your models that will mean only 4 models get hit by the torrent flamer. It looks like a sine wave with 2" spacing between each model and 4 (iirc) models deep.

The only problem is this can create a large footprint, but at least it will only roast 3-4.

Also if you have multi level ruins, spreading out among the levels will reduce the number of hits.

Also, consider an ADL for your Lootas. They love the cover, and if you get them a quad gun then it can be used to soften up the Heldrake with Interceptor fire when it comes in.

And add that second squad of lootas. 2 squads isnt spam. Not even a little.

If a marine player takes 2 Tac squads, is that Tac spam?

Skyshield Platform is another good idea. 4++ is pretty sweet.

ADL for the intercept is a good start.
If you have some heavy support choices free you could consider big guns and ammo runts for re-rolls. The bonus being the T7 makes the bale flamer useless against them and you can really space out your extra grots. Also if you do hit you have more chance of a clean kill against the drake.

If you have this free heavy spot then go for a modest unit of lootas, sat near the rear of your deployment zone and the ADL with big guns well in front of them. I'm jus thinking of trying to get the heldrake to go after the lootas and accidentally poking its soft bottom at the quadgun / big guns.

Until Mr Drake makes an appearance you have the extra S7 and S8 guns to make a mess of those chaos chappies.

If you have lots of HS slots free then big gun away!

This is kind of counter-intuitive, but put your lootas in a battlewagon.

They all fit, they can all shoot, and even with a side shot the drake won't really be able to hurt the wagon in the turn that it flies on, as long as you stay outside of its vector-strike range.

Then once the drake arrives, you can drive the wagon around to escape vector strikes and let the lootas shoot the drake with snapshots (which they would be taking against a flier anyway).

The nice thing about this solution is that it doesn't violate your FOC restrictions if you take the wagon as a dedicated transport (you can do that, right? IIRC) and in games where you're not playing against a heldrake, you can use the battlewagon to transport assault units.

[edit]
Oh wait, lootas are elite, right? Not heavy. So yes, take the lootas as elite, the battlewagon as heavy, that way the lootas can deploy turn 1 inside the non-dedicated battlewagon.

Another option is to take the Mad Doc, and start passing out Cybork to your army. 5++ is nice vs Heldrakes.

Less efficient than Flavious' suggestion. But its there if you decide your entire army needs to be a bit more Heldrake resilient costs be damned.

why not skyshield? 75 points for a 4+ inv for a good portion of your shooting force.

Actually due to the high rate of fire of ANY ork unit (except the worthless flashgitz or the 2 purely melee units) you have a lot of rear armor options.

My friend still fields helldrakes against me, and every time i really dont care. If he goes for the lootas, he has to get close enough so my bikes can get rear armor and pummel it with 21 S5 twinlinked shots (i run 7man bikernobz, well 6 + boss). Glances on 5s pens on 6s, happens way more than you think.
If he decides he wants to try and wound my bikernobz so i dont sweep half his army, he only does minimal damage and my 2 loota units rip it apart.
Theres also the blobs of shootas you got. Yeah they only glance on a 6 against rear armor but remember you are usually shooting 40+ dice at his butt, and he only has 3HP. Any glances are golden.

2 lootas are not loota spamming. I always ALWAYS have 2 units of 8-10 lootas. Theyre too crucial of a unit right now, and a single unit is easily removed like this.

My issue is any big name boss he brings, it always kicks my warbosses arse and it takes half the game to shoot out his cultist blob so i can shoot him. i really dont care about his chickens.

Snoipah wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I hear you got Drake problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a Drake ain't one.

I played my Orks regularly vs 3 Drakes and I can say that the only way to beat them is with Dakkajets and Lootas.

Also... Get your Boyz into CC. He can't target you if you are beating the feth out of his CSM.

But doesn't your squad of lootaz get burned the first turn the drake comes in?

Also, I really don't want this game to turn into a flier fest. also lootaz shouldn't be in CC.

Just put them in a battlewagon. Solved... It aint torching that thing

 Kain wrote:
I'd get a Dakkajet and pop in behind that sucker and let out your WAAAGH. That should blow the thing into pieces of scrap metal.

That is exactly what my opponent just did to me last night. I torched a grot cannon unit, then his lootas, then his dakka jet came in and lit up my butt with +15 shots or some crazyness.

i'll never understand how fliers get rear armor on other fliers without a turret or rear-facing gun.

Did you go into hover mode or something with your helldrake? Zooming fliers should never get a chance to shoot each others backside with forward mounted guns.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'll never understand how fliers get rear armor on other fliers without a turret or rear-facing gun.

Did you go into hover mode or something with your helldrake? Zooming fliers should never get a chance to shoot each others backside with forward mounted guns.

Sometimes you just pop up on the right side of the board and the Helturkey is in full moon.

Snoipah wrote:Every time, without fail, when it comes in, it kills around 90% of my lootas with the flame breath attack it does.

This means two things.

1.) You opponent is lucky. The most expected result of 10 hits is only 8 wounds. If your opponent regularly only rolls a single 1 out of 10 dice, then he's being lucky. Nothing you can do about that.

2.) You're playing your lootas dumbly. There is no reason, at all, whatsoever, that your opponent should be getting 10 hits with his template, and that's your fault. The models in a loota squad can be in coherency when the minis are spaced 2" away from each other. If you spread the lootas across a few different levels of ruins, your opponent can only hurt the minis on a single level of them. It's really not that hard, with proper spacing, to reduce the number of hits he gets with that template down to the 2-5 range instead of 10. Every time.

So, what you should start by doing is to displace your lootas. If that isn't working to your desired level, then I'd add to the chorus that helldrakes can't target lootas when they're embarked in a transport. Putting them in a battlewagon will quickly end the helldrake's killing of your lootas (or at least give you a chance to shoot at the drake first). Even a trukk placed in deep cover stands a reasonable chance of surviving long enough to get to attack the drake, assuming you're giving your opponent more pressing targets (like a bunch of bikes or nobz, or whatever getting shoved down his proverbial throat).

If you want a harder counter, then yeah, dakkajets aren't too shabby. They also FAQed the aegis so that you can move up to the quad gun and still fire at full BS, so an ADL with some grots (for the better BS) is a pretty cheap way. The deluxe, more awesome way would be a squad of tankbustaz in a battlewagon. That's a lot of rokkits plus the additional 4 rokkits from the wagon. A bit less likely to throw off HP, but more likely to cause an explosion result.

Snoipah wrote:


Stuffs

I'd get two squads of lootas, but guess what? Whenever I do, people complain about me loota spamming.

Oh and we have tourneys every now and then, you're allowed 1 heavy support, 1 elite, 1 fast attack, 1 hq, up to 6 troops, and 1 flier, 1000 point limit. Guess what he always brings?

Stuffs

What does dakka dakka suggest?

The tournament entry you can't do much about but, otherwise, tell them to stop complaining about legal force org choices or go somewhere-else would be my first option.

i wouldnt even bother with that tournament FOC. Orks literally cant do anything but green tide in that list.

Unfair rules are unfair indeed.

ADL- QUAD gun manned by gretchin.

Lootas

Dakka Jet

3 AA choices which would all fit into your FOC.

Run a age is dense line with quad gun and that will shut him up. 100pts and can intercept


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ageis** damn auto correct

I built 4 levels-worth of ruins that I'm able to Offer half to my opponent. Deploy 5 Lootas in a cross formation like on a die on the second level, and another 5 from the same mob directly above them on the third level. 10 Lootas that only one is ever hit on a small blast and 3 are hit with a large blast or template.

Even with another mob close by, template weapons have to be placed to hit as many models in a unit as possible and rarely can hit other units. 3 hits, probably 3 wounds, takin a Ld on a 7, but that's why you have 2 more mobs of 10 ready to gt revenge.

I've played against 2 and 3 Drake units many times and always won. Helldrakes are a waste of points against Orks. Also artillery is T7 so is harder to wound.

And of course I use NobBikers which can glance/pen it to death when shooting at rear armor.

That tournament FoC is. slowed to put it nicely.

I wouldn't put good entry fee money at that stupidity.


Anyway, Orks have plenty of options to kill the Helturkey.

Like Alaros said, space them lootas out. he shouldn't get more than 5 with proper spacing. And then you can mow him down in kind.


Gretchin on the Quad-gun have the following math against a Heldrake with Interceptor.

4(.5)(.5)=3 hits = 1 damage result which he has a 1/3 chance of saving.

Roughly a 1/3 chance of a pen. and all but 1 of the results will result in him not being able to shoot you in some form. Either he'll have to snap shot(no firing templates!), lose the flamer entirely, or you'll kill the Drake.

And even if he does still get to flame you, you'll still have plenty of Loota fire to drown him.


Orks are actually the best equipped to handle Heldrakes.