Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a friend who is always crying about JSJ, so to try and stop all the QQ'ing pacify him a bit I have agreed to play a list with no JSJ. (Really i just decided to go all out and take no suits at all). Obviously without any suits i don't have access to fusions, plasma, missile pod, rail and a host of other guns Tau normally need to field a decent force. I have tried to substitute these with Tanks and EMP grenades for Anti-Tank and attempted to fir as much anti infantry in as possible.

Plan: Ethereals take a Dfish each with the Firewarriors and use the old Fish'O'Fury to pump out 72 pulse shots and give an additional power whent hey jump out. Smaller Firewarrior squad mans quad. Pathfinders and tetras provide marker support. Kroot camp and snipe. Skyray for anti air and Longstrike for any armor. EMP nads on Firewarriors for some close up anti-tank (can they be thrown now? I was never sure?)

Let me know what you guys think.

HQ

Ethereal - 50

Ethereal - 50

Troops

12x Fire Warrior - 161
Shas'Ui
Bonded
EMP
Devilfish
Sensor Spines - 116
D-Pod
2x Seekers

12x Fire Warrior - 161
Shas'Ui
Bonded
EMP
Devilfish
Sensor Spines - 116
D-Pod
2x Seekers

6x Fire Warriors - 88
Shas'Ui + Markerlight/TL
Bonded
EMP

10x Kroot - 81
Shaper
Snipers

Fast Attack

6x Path finders - 71
Shas'Ui

6x Path finders - 71
Shas'Ui

2x Tetra - 110
D-pods
Sensor Spines

Heavy Support

Skyray - 135
D-Pod
Sensor Spines

Longstrike HH - 190
Rail+Sub
Sensor Spines
D-pod

ADL + Quadgun - 100


Total - 1500

Tetra a FW model?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
and if you want fusion blasters you could take Pirhanas.

 Lemartes12 wrote:
Tetra a FW model?

Yea little av10 skimmer that has a Heavy 2 TL marker. I like em, they used to be amazing with a Heavy 4 Markerlights each and D-pods as standard and you could improve them to BS4.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lemartes12 wrote:

and if you want fusion blasters you could take Pirhanas.

Ah i totally didn't think of that, i dont currently own any tho.

 Messy0 wrote:

 Lemartes12 wrote:
Tetra a FW model?

Yea little av10 skimmer that has a Heavy 2 TL marker. I like em, they used to be amazing with a Heavy 4 Markerlights each and D-pods as standard and you could improve them to BS4.

You realize if hes complaining about JSJ, the next thing is going to be your using FW models. Then something else. Then something else.
Instead of changing your list's it would be more benificial just to teach him how to properly fight tau armys.
We had a guy at my local shop that used to complain everytime he lost until i showed him that it was just how he built his list by taking 500 less points than him and still beat him.

TBH i've tried. If i can beat him with this list then he really has to go away and think about what hes doing and realise its not JSJ, or the Riptides, or Farsight+friends or the Missilesides. TBH it think it will be a nice challenge too and i like a challenge.

hopefully it works.

May I ask what army he fields? Only if its the likes of Guard, Eldar or Dark Eldar I find that people who play those armies always have something bad to say about the Tau.

One guy actually tried to say that FWs shouldn't have a Str 5 weapon and better armour than Guardians as they are the same price. I simply 'politely' pointed out that it's balanced out by them having Bladestorm, Fleet, WS4, BS4 and I5. Needless to say he sulked.

Also, if your friend is only complaining about JSJ that doesn't actually rule out all Suits as Broadsides have no Jet Packs.

I once ran a list like this just to see if I could survive without my 13 suits back in 5th Ed (Now have 16 in 6th).
I was against orks and the army lasted till Turn 5 and took out half his army, but I did miss my suits terribly.

This was the list:

HQ:
Aun'Shi

Ethereal + Shield Drone

Troops:
8 FWs w/ PRs + S'Ui w/ ML

8 FWs w/ PRs + S'Ui w/ ML

5 FWs w/ PRs + 3 FWs w/ PCs + S'Ui w/ ML

5 FWs w/ PRs + 3 FWs w/ PCs + S'Ui w/ ML

12 Kroot + 3 Kroot Hounds

12 Kroot + 3 Kroot Hounds

FA:
6 Pathfinders w/ PCs + 3 PFs w/ RRs

2 Piranhas w/ FBs

4 Vespids + Strain Leader

HS:
Hammerhead w/ RG + SMS + MT + TL

Sky Ray w/ MT

Sniper Drone Squad

about 1500pts

The friend in question plays Khone Marines So i think his biggest gripe is not being able to catching the suits in CC.

I think that you should also politely point out that Guardians can have heavy weapons platforms, rending guns and take a psyker to lead squads and now battle focus.

I usually play with either a Farsight bomb, 8 suits including 2 HQ, 2 Riptides and Missilesides. I also have a few XV9's with PIG's and about 18 stealth suits i use in bigger games, and Shadowsun. so in total i have around 35 suits (Its a lot of fun to run them all in a Farsight Enclave list).

If i had any Vespid i would give them a go, never actually used them before but iv always been tempted just for poops and giggles.

I think you can safely remove the Upgrades off of your Skyray. Perosonally, I find this a great opportunity to field a Razorshark or two. I'd look at 2x Skyray, 2x Razorshark for your list. You have enough Seeker Missiles and maneuverability to take out AV13- and can safely ignore LRs.

I also don't like a six strong fire warrior squad manning a Quadgun. I think you can be more inventive than that.

If you dropped the Hammerhead, the Quadgun, the Tetras(You have Pathfinders) or drop the Pathfinders(You have Tetras) and some of the upgrades spread around you could feasibly field 2x Skyray and 2x Razorshark(With Dpods and Missile Pod) and still be pretty effective. You end up with better AA, better AntiAV13-, and get to use a rarley used unit in an effective format.

Also, with networked markerlights that have Skyfire(Skyray) you can just light up enemy flyers or FMCs and let the Firewarriors rip.

Why a Razorshark? Isn't it just the inbred cousin of the already mediocre Sunshark?

Terkul wrote:
Why a Razorshark? Isn't it just the inbred cousin of the already mediocre Sunshark?

The Razorshark is much better AA and anti Light AV. The Sunshark is the more expensive multi purposed bomber. Its AA come from the two drones it drops off. IMO I'd rather have the cheaper and more reliable Quad Ion Turret, Jet past and rear Armor just about anything you want and if you can hit the Flyer with Markerlights(SkyRay after Alpha Striking) you can fire Seeker Missiles to rear armor too. The Sunshark has some interesting capabilities but it is a very generalized unit, a little bit of everything while the Razorshark is more focused.

See for me, Marines (Loyal and Traitor) are the only army I actually have continued trouble with. All others are easy enough. And my suits never get caught either but people have gotten wise to this and just bring bigger guns =(

 Messy0 wrote:
If i had any Vespid i would give them a go, never actually used them before but iv always been tempted just for poops and giggles.

They are pretty decent if you use them right, as hit and runners (well shoot and runners really). Their guns are devastating against any basic troop in GW but taking a Strain Leader is a must just in case you get shot at as Ld 9 really helps.

@Zagman and Terkul: I have myself had little success with the Razorshark during its six test games so I switched it to a Sunshark and it killed everything I sent it at and never died once in the next six test games, losing at most just its drones and missiles. Oh and Seeker Missiles are actually rather poor against AV13+, Hammerhead all the way, exploded every Land Raider (6) it has ever aimed at.

 Zagman wrote:

Terkul wrote:
Why a Razorshark? Isn't it just the inbred cousin of the already mediocre Sunshark?

The Razorshark is much better AA and anti Light AV. The Sunshark is the more expensive multi purposed bomber. Its AA come from the two drones it drops off. IMO I'd rather have the cheaper and more reliable Quad Ion Turret, Jet past and rear Armor just about anything you want and if you can hit the Flyer with Markerlights(SkyRay after Alpha Striking) you can fire Seeker Missiles to rear armor too. The Sunshark has some interesting capabilities but it is a very generalized unit, a little bit of everything while the Razorshark is more focused.

Both flyers have 2 seeker missiles. Both flyers have Missile Pods (assuming you got the upgrade on the razorshark). Both flyers have 4 Ion shots (Yes the Sunshark's requires you to be close, but it's twin linked while the razorshark isn't). Both have identical stats. While the overcharged quad ion turret is a large blast, the Ion Rifles offer 2 small blasts. Wether this is a good thing or a bad thing is situational.

So then what are you getting for the 10 extra points? A bomb that's admittedly kind of gak, a marker light, interceptor, the ion guns are detachable, The Ion Rifles can shoot at different targets from the flyer, and most importantly a ever so slightly better model. That to me is well worth 10 points.

Terkul wrote:
So then what are you getting for the 10 extra points? A bomb that's admittedly kind of gak, a marker light, interceptor, the ion guns are detachable, The Ion Rifles can shoot at different targets from the flyer, and most importantly a ever so slightly better model. That to me is well worth 10 points.

My thoughts exactly.

So have you had your match yet Messy?

Update on the game for anyone that is interested. I pretty much kept the same list as above (since i dont own any flyers it would have been a proxy too far) but dropped the 6man squad of Fire Warriors and a Ethereal (as well as a few other tweeks) to try out Darkstrider who manned the quad gun with a squad of pathfinders (mad props to this guy. Underrated model, his special ability actually came in use when some bikes attempted to charge and he moves just a few inchs out of range!)

Overall the game went well. 3 objectives BGNT. With 1 in my deployment zone which the Kroot and tanks held well (until the tanks went down to Havocs/Oblits) and with both pathfinders sitting on the second in mid field cover. The Ethereal meant that the Fire Warriors had more than enough fire power with marker support to fend off any oncoming assaults from Marines and Bikes, if anything I had too much markers with not enough units to use them.

Personally, although the match was fun it doesn't compare to the fun had with suits. The play after I dropped off the Fire Warriors was very very static but there was some fun to be had with LoS blocking Devilfish and Fish'O'Fury (the good ol' days). His landraider caused crazy trouble and with Longstike being the only ranged way to take it down i had to risk it with firewarrior emp's. By them it wasn't going to make too much difference as it had already dropped off its cargo.

Admittedly it was a much closer game as he did manage to kill the skyray, and Longstrike (so 2 extra VP) but i managed to get his Havocs in the end it was a much closer game than when I was using suits or the Farsight bomb...which sadly only reenforced his arguments about suits

 Messy0 wrote:
...which sadly only reenforced his arguments about suits

Which sadly means he likes to hobble his opponents for an easier game. You should simply say 'Ok, this time how about you dont have land raiders, obs, or anything else that can match a suit in your army', play yours with suits and show him it works both ways.

Plus, this was only a single game which, if am reading it right, you still won so not really conclusive as it merely shows Tau still work without suit support.