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Hello dakka, its me papaskittels again!
This time not about 40k/fantasy!

Anyway I am having this huge dilemma, I am Dm'ing a group of 4-6 people as I have been for over a year now. When we started I was running the game off of the very basic rules of the Pathfinder RPG, but I added so many home-brew rules and such just for simplicity. Now that we have been running the game for quite some time and are not as noobish, I really want to switch over to the actual rules set for a more realistic experience. With my homemade rules in place, I have a tendency to make all the player way to powerful, Monsters way to weak, get way to good of loot, and make it just a very remedial experience compared to what it could be (A good example of this is my lvl 4 paladin "Xanros" has a +8 Str modifier and over 9.5k Gold) . But I feel like switching might be to big of a jump, and to help ease them into it I will do it after this module is complete. (I'm running Thunder-spire labyrinth currently converted to my home-brew.)

That leads me to problem #2 , we are barely into thunder-spire (My group is the kind of "Hey lets carve our own destiny's!" any tips on fixing that?) In a home-brew world with an entirely altered storyline (Looking back at how cool I thought it would be just to realize it is awful; But the world Is something I can still work with.) And I really want to run the actual thunderspire because it looks like a fantastic module full of potential! The problems with this is the fact that I want to convert to real Pathfinder; And the altered storyline. Any Ideas here?

And last but not least, is the adventure path I really wanted to run after thunder-spire (As a continuation of story) is Rise of The Rune lords because that looks like a fantastic adventure! An adventure that starts at level 1. I talked to my players and they were stoked about running it, but they really want to keep their old char's and not be demoted to level one, because them doing thunder-spire now is pointless then... Is there anyway I can compensate them doing the rest of Thunderspire and then Going back to level one with the same characters, new rules, and so much more? What I was thinking is at the final fight with paledmar, he steals their souls (and is secretly a part of the cult of orcus not the other god) and they practically restart the same characters, and the idea of the orcus cult will run subliminally throughout the rise of the runelords (NOT GAME ALTERING LIKE MY PREVIOUS STUFF.) And finally at the end of the adventure path they face off against orcus for their souls ect.. I feel like this would be a good way to end that campaign, and I dont want to just wipe their characters because they have worked so damn hard.
Please help me if you can..


Papaskittels

Taking away their characters (or their progress with their characters) is a bad idea unless theyagree

it could well lead so some of the just giving up on the game (or not putting any effort into it and just rolling the dice when prompted) leading to dull and boring sessions

If you really want to run Thunderspire you may need to put a bunch of time and effort into converting it to fit their characters rather than the other way round

You could always go the tpk route and have them start over...

Playing a RPG with overpowered characters and underpowered monsters just doens't seem fun to me. Whats the point if everything is an auto kill.

 Catyrpelius wrote:
You could always go the tpk route and have them start over...

Playing a RPG with overpowered characters and underpowered monsters just doens't seem fun to me. Whats the point if everything is an auto kill.

I never agree that a TPK is the way to go, but that's because no one likes losing a character they've spent time working on and playing.

You could talk to your players, let them know how you're feeling about the game, your burnout, and a suggestion to switch over to the main rules. Warn them they will have to remake their characters, but they can be the same. If it doesn't work out like that, then a TPK might be the way to go, but with overpowered PCs and underpowered monsters, you're going to be in for a really tough encounter.

Just a few more things to add...

Characters aren't really made to last for ever. At some point even the best character either retiers or fades into the distance. I don't nessacarily meen that you have to force your party to give up their characters, just that you need them to move on. Some of the ways I've done this before... A change of location, banishment for their crimes, actual retirement (I had a female preist in one of my groups retire and become a madam...) and it was all a dream.

It's important to remember that as the DM you really shouldn't be running a player character...

It's also important to remember that as a DM you should be rolling behind the screen. Players don't need to see what you rolled. I've found most of the time it doesn't even matter what I roll. As a DM I'm there to tell a story, challenge the group and have a good time. Themematic rolls are better then real rolls any day. This has to work both ways though.. You can't always lie in your favor and expect it to be fun, nor can you always lie in the players favor and expect it to be fun.

If your running a premade campaign don't change it or over burden it with house rules... Most premade campaigns are designed and tested to run at a certain power lvl and with a certain set of rules...

Don't over look the usefulness of a police force. Generally in my campaigns I have a group called the Knights of the Realm and I use the threat of them to keep an unruly group somewhat in check... Burn down to many villages and kill too many innocents and the Knights of the Realm just might make an apperiance.

Be up front with your players. Tell them that the situation as-is is no fun for you. Better to be open about why changes are being made than try to make an end-run and screw things up.

Also, it sounds like you're running a "DMPC" with the Paladin you mention. If the party is too powerful, looks like it's time for him to either make a heroic last stand or take up the priestly orders at a monastery somewhere... Either way, if the PC side of the GM screen is overpowered, get your character out of there.

Some players, like me, prefer the lower levels of play in d20 games. As such,w e might not be too adverse to resetting if it's potentially more fun for everyone. In my case, I find high levels of d20 games see characters overburdened with 'prep' spells (pre-combat buffs, etc.), magic items, special-case special abilities, etc. I like levels 3-10 or so where things are fun and my character's range of options is opened up from the 'rookie' levels but is still relatively narrow. More fun for GMs, too, as player characters aren't quite as disposable, but are unlikely to have challenge-shattering abilities that need to be considered. ("Oh, there's a pit with a magic puzzle to solve to cross... Never mind, I can make us all fly at trivial cost.")

 Balance wrote:
Be up front with your players. Tell them that the situation as-is is no fun for you. Better to be open about why changes are being made than try to make an end-run and screw things up.

This. I've always found that being open about problems and how you're addressing them leads to a better campaign/exp.