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So what is the best way to send honor guard to where they need to wreck face? Would a Land Raider Crusader be prudent? could you drop pod them in and hide them in terrain when they enter? Or should i be balsy and maybe drop them with a Stormraven?

They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Against Tau and Eldar that spam AP2/quasi-rending? Yes they do...

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Can't tell if you are joking or not.....but they are melee troops that have to walk. That alone is enough reason to give them a transport. Drop-pod has my vote. Get them right in the enemy's face first turn, and they should be able to whither 1 round of shooting as long as you have other target dropping or right in their face.

Look for discussion about Blood Angels Death Company for other advice, as they are very similar units.

I'd drop pod them myself, but I'm a BA player. Otherwise you need at least a rhino or a land raider, preferably crusader or redeemer.

BA? why didn't you say so? Give them jump packs and put Dante with them. Bam, they land wherever you want, guaranteed.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Can't tell if you are joking or not.....but they are melee troops that have to walk. That alone is enough reason to give them a transport. Drop-pod has my vote. Get them right in the enemy's face first turn, and they should be able to whither 1 round of shooting as long as you have other target dropping or right in their face.

Look for discussion about Blood Angels Death Company for other advice, as they are very similar units.

I didnt say dont drop them, i said dont drop them then run them into ruins :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Against Tau and Eldar that spam AP2/quasi-rending? Yes they do...

Tau ap2 is mostly coming from blasts with poor bs now, suits more commonly carry missile pods. And eldar rending needs sixes, its not that scary....

 davou wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Can't tell if you are joking or not.....but they are melee troops that have to walk. That alone is enough reason to give them a transport. Drop-pod has my vote. Get them right in the enemy's face first turn, and they should be able to whither 1 round of shooting as long as you have other target dropping or right in their face.

Look for discussion about Blood Angels Death Company for other advice, as they are very similar units.

I didnt say dont drop them, i said dont drop them then run them into ruins :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:
They have artificer armor, they probably don't need to hide.

Against Tau and Eldar that spam AP2/quasi-rending? Yes they do...

Tau ap2 is mostly coming from blasts with poor bs now, suits more commonly carry missile pods. And eldar rending needs sixes, its not that scary....

So we're just forgetting about Marker Lights then? And Eldar Rending IS scary when even their cheapest troops have it and can throw dozens of shots your way.

So the way I am going to try, is by podding them in.

This is contingent on 1 thing -- and that is the Chapter Masters ability to tank wounds.

Giving him a TH and the Shield Eternal -- I think he could do it, but math may say otherwise.

I play Eldar a lot, so I'll be able to experiment with it, but I think it could work well with proper placement and planning - giving them an appropriate target (I.E. NOT Wraithguard with D-Scythes.....Marines don't like the D. )

I plan to use a pod.

This is because my army is almost entirely based around pods and other methods of deep strike. With tactical squads, an Ironclad and Sternguard running around, a bunch of dudes who can only use bolters on the turn they arrive are going to be less of a threat - especially when they include a Chapter Master with the Shield Eternal and artificer armour for tanking duty. Even if they draw fire, that's fire going away from my other units.

In other words, I think putting them in a pod depends upon having more dangerous targets arriving at the same time so they can sneak in.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Giving him a TH and the Shield Eternal -- I think he could do it, but math may say otherwise.

Depends on what you're facing, really, but the jump from 3+ to 2+ should not be overlooked. You should really be giving him either Terminator armour or Artificer armour. This does get expensive, of course, but will make all the difference.
The other option is to LOS! any AP2 wounds - but this does nothing against massed small-arms fire, and those unexpected 1's are really where your biggest threat is.

 Super Ready wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Giving him a TH and the Shield Eternal -- I think he could do it, but math may say otherwise.

Depends on what you're facing, really, but the jump from 3+ to 2+ should not be overlooked. You should really be giving him either Terminator armour or Artificer armour. This does get expensive, of course, but will make all the difference.
The other option is to LOS! any AP2 wounds - but this does nothing against massed small-arms fire, and those unexpected 1's are really where your biggest threat is.

Ahh I meant to say with Artificer Armor as well

As an Eldar player I would laugh if you tried to drop pod them at me.

I'd put them in an assault vehicle. FTW

I plan on running my terminator chapter master with all his buddies in a crusader. He has a teleport homer, will call in backup on his position, step out of a moving land raider crusader like a boss, orbitally bombard some stuff then him and his bros will wade in like death upon the enemy...the thunder termies join the slaughter next turn.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:


So we're just forgetting about Marker Lights then? And Eldar Rending IS scary when even their cheapest troops have it and can throw dozens of shots your way.

Not forgetting about marker lights, but you can game that with placement (both spreading out, and hugging enemy models). Hell, you can even use it to your advantage against tau; Drop in and hug a squad that has a fireblade in it. then suddenly, it has to move if it wants to get away.

Whats more, if you want to bring marker lights into this argument, you make my point about not running into some cover with your Dedicated Expencive well armored close combat unit even better.

Guardian defenders can throw allot of dice yes, but of those, 1/3 will miss outright, and assuming a maximum sized squad (which is very unlikely, since the meta with cheap eldar troops is to put more serpents down) you get 4.5 rending shots. And that's IF you drop within range of a 20 man blob. In order to get that many rending shots without having the unlikely 20 man blob of backfield Guardians, you'd need two or three squads moving on your dudes.

You also seem to want to ignore the bolters they're carrying. When you drop down, you don't just sit there waiting for shuriken pummeling, you fire bolters. Even a bare minimum squad is going to cause 2.2 unsaved wounds against 'basic eldar troops'. Bumb the squad to 9 (so you can add an IC) and you get almost 7 unsaved wounds (more if you have chapter tactics that benefit). In all likely hood those models are going to run away (either by failing morale, or when the other player realizes you want your HG in combat with them)

Yes, 2up saves will eat it sometimes against rending shuriken weapons, but more often than not they wont. Even better still, they're going to absolutely demolish just about anything that has the power to hurt them with shooting in close combat, even when reduced in power.

so the choices are;

Drop down, disembark, run for and hide in cover.
Drop down, Rush up, Powerful shooting, weather return fire.

If you can both shoot and use some cover by all means, but hiding your honour guard is a massive waste of points, its unfluffy, and its probably going to let the opponent dictate the initiative in the next turn.

Also they do have storm bolters which are pretty good against those pesky eldar with their weapons. That is unless they are hiding in wave serpents which means you have to get out. and if you get out it is highly likely I am going to be able to kill your scoring the next turn because I am not just going to herpa derp my honor guard in by themselves.

Tau ap2 is mostly coming from blasts with poor bs now, suits more commonly carry missile pods. And eldar rending needs sixes, its not that scary....

Oh you poor deluded soul. You still think a 2+ armour save is worth something bless your heart, now its not worth the points you pay for it. Most Xenos armies can put enough wounds on a squads that they simply evaporate from the amount of 1's they roll. Eldar quasi-rending IS scary not because its that amazing, but because its sooo cheap to get in numbers if you want, or its simply the potential to roll four six's from 8 wounds. Considering the cost of the units the shots come from, that's scary! D-Anything will ruin there day as will monofilament. It only takes one hit from a Nova charge ion blaster to annihilate the entire expensive unit. Unless you have high toughness, are stupid cheap or have shenanigans then foot slogging is simply a bad idea.

 Leth wrote:
Also they do have storm bolters which are pretty good against those pesky eldar with their weapons. That is unless they are hiding in wave serpents which means you have to get out. and if you get out it is highly likely I am going to be able to kill your scoring the next turn because I am not just going to herpa derp my honor guard in by themselves.

Unfortunately Honour Guard can't take storm bolters. Why a command squad gets to ply with the fancy stuff but the Chapter Master's crew doesn't is beyond me...

However, that's not necessarily a bad thing. If they're in a pod they won't be charging when they arrive anyway, but you'll probably be in rapid fire range so you'll at least get two shots each that turn in any case.

I'm not going to let the possibility of shurikens, etc put me off taking them. If I thought like that I'd never bother taking anything with a 2+. And as I said above, if they come down in a pod they're unlikely to be alone.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

Tau ap2 is mostly coming from blasts with poor bs now, suits more commonly carry missile pods. And eldar rending needs sixes, its not that scary....

Oh you poor deluded soul. You still think a 2+ armour save is worth something bless your heart, now its not worth the points you pay for it. Most Xenos armies can put enough wounds on a squads that they simply evaporate from the amount of 1's they roll. Eldar quasi-rending IS scary not because its that amazing, but because its sooo cheap to get in numbers if you want, or its simply the potential to roll four six's from 8 wounds. Considering the cost of the units the shots come from, that's scary! D-Anything will ruin there day as will monofilament. It only takes one hit from a Nova charge ion blaster to annihilate the entire expensive unit. Unless you have high toughness, are stupid cheap or have shenanigans then foot slogging is simply a bad idea.

Honour guard do pay for it dude, but they get 2+, veteran stats, power weapon, pistol, boltgun for 11 points. If you think that's not worth it then your deluded not me.

Of course volume of fire will kill them, but that wasn't the argument I was refuting was it? And even if it were (which it isn't, just in case you think this is a pass for you to go back and change your reasoning again) then frankly youre deluded not me. If a tau castle spends ALL of its shooting neutering a single squad, then you've gained a ton positionally unless you follow up with massive incompetence. You'd have to start with massive incompetence for an Ion accelerator to be able to cover the whole squad. In fact, you can make you squad un-hitable by large blasts just by being within 2'' of enemy models.

The smart tau player will receede, block with some small disposable unit and try to neuter the rest of the closing elements rather than tear up one squad and eat assaults from all sides.

 davou wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

Tau ap2 is mostly coming from blasts with poor bs now, suits more commonly carry missile pods. And eldar rending needs sixes, its not that scary....

Oh you poor deluded soul. You still think a 2+ armour save is worth something bless your heart, now its not worth the points you pay for it. Most Xenos armies can put enough wounds on a squads that they simply evaporate from the amount of 1's they roll. Eldar quasi-rending IS scary not because its that amazing, but because its sooo cheap to get in numbers if you want, or its simply the potential to roll four six's from 8 wounds. Considering the cost of the units the shots come from, that's scary! D-Anything will ruin there day as will monofilament. It only takes one hit from a Nova charge ion blaster to annihilate the entire expensive unit. Unless you have high toughness, are stupid cheap or have shenanigans then foot slogging is simply a bad idea.

Honour guard do pay for it dude, but they get 2+, veteran stats, power weapon, pistol, boltgun for 11 points. If you think that's not worth it then your deluded not me.

Of course volume of fire will kill them, but that wasn't the argument I was refuting was it? And even if it were (which it isn't, just in case you think this is a pass for you to go back and change your reasoning again) then frankly youre deluded not me. If a tau castle spends ALL of its shooting neutering a single squad, then you've gained a ton positionally unless you follow up with massive incompetence. You'd have to start with massive incompetence for an Ion accelerator to be able to cover the whole squad. In fact, you can make you squad un-hitable by large blasts just by being within 2'' of enemy models.

The smart tau player will receede, block with some small disposable unit and try to neuter the rest of the closing elements rather than tear up one squad and eat assaults from all sides.

That isnt a bad idea at all, just pod them in, and deploy them right next to their guys so they will feel a lot less happy about throwing a pie plate on you, and even if they do shoot your butt out from under you if you at least have 2-3 guys left with power weapons you are going to eat through a tremendous amount of guys on the charge. Heck, I once had a single death company marine wipe out a 12 man firewarrior squad, then he somehow through luck managed to make the assault to the next squad. The one saving grace of eldar is that they get to strike first so they may be able to do something in combat, but if they wiff their rolls they are going to fall just as hard