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So I haven't seen any thing on this but I was wondering If the tyranids had come pre-heresy, how would a show down between a Primarch and the Swarmlord go down. Please list any Primarch and how you think it would go down. I think If it were Magnus the Red he being a super strong psychic would instant kill him.

 Mojo1jojo wrote:
So I haven't seen any thing on this but I was wondering If the tyrands had come pre-heresy, how would a show down between a Primarch and the Swarmlord go down. Please list any Primarch and how you think it would go down. I think If it were Magnus the Red he being a super strong psychic would instant kill him.

Fluff wise (and this is background, not tactics), MOST of the Primarchs would have an edge. The Swarmlord slapped around Calgar, which is basically his "biggest achievement" fluff wise. But, Primarchs have also been shown to slap around elite Marines quite a bit. So, who slaps around Marines more? Horus could likely take him down. Likewise, Swarmlord could probably take down Great Crusade Lorgar. Magnus should be able to beat the Swarmlord at any point though, same with Sanguinis.

Game wise though, just for completion, only Horus can give the Swarmlord a fair fight. The other three Primarchs will usually lose 1 on 1.

The swarmlord is just one more stupid bug at the end of the day. It would lose. Many Primarchs had incredible psychic defenses or such incredible offense that the bug would never get a chance to try it's abilities.

First of all it isn't just one more stupid bug. It is specifically designed to kill the enemy commanders. If it was defeated by a Primarch, and the hive mind was given enough time, then that Primarch would find himself facing a far better Swarmlord specifically tailored to kill him.

Calgar crushed the Swarmlord in manly one on one combat last time they fought. A primarch would make short work of it.

The whole "adaptation" thing the Tyranids have has a limit.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Calgar crushed the Swarmlord in manly one on one combat last time they fought. A primarch would make short work of it.

The whole "adaptation" thing the Tyranids have has a limit.

Calgar did not kill it, actually he had to run away while his champion held it of, not killing it either, with just enough time for Calgar to get away barley alive.It is said to room that world still coming out randomly too harass the locals

 Mojo1jojo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Calgar crushed the Swarmlord in manly one on one combat last time they fought. A primarch would make short work of it.

The whole "adaptation" thing the Tyranids have has a limit.

Calgar did not kill it, actually he had to run away while his champion held it of, not killing it either, with just enough time for Calgar to get away barley alive.It is said to room that world still coming out randomly too harass the locals

So he's basically Old Oneeye #2 ? Bad, lazy fluff (if it's true)

 Mojo1jojo wrote:

Calgar did not kill it, actually he had to run away while his champion held it of, not killing it either, with just enough time for Calgar to get away barley alive.It is said to room that world still coming out randomly too harass the locals

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/534896-.html

Anyway, the Swarmlord's chances against basically any Primarch aren't too great.

A Swarmlord against a Primarch? Calgar smoked one himself, and even stood up against it while it was optimally linked to the Hive Mind.

Primarch wins every single time.

Swarmlord could also pull off his Avatar of Khaine strategy and send carnifexes charging at a Primarch.

 jifel wrote:
Fluff wise (and this is background, not tactics), MOST of the Primarchs would have an edge.

In 1 to 1 "fair" combat - definatelly. But the Swarmlord is a general first, and warrior second, so he wouldn't play fair. Many of the primarcht wasn't very bright and could be easily tricked into the trap, where they could be drowned in Carnifex bodies, or defoured by the Mawlock, so Swarmy wouldn't even need to step his hooves on the battlefield


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Calgar smoked one himself

Not himself, but with his honor guard squad. Both times Marny faced the Swarmlord one on one he get horribly maimed.

 Mezmerro wrote:

Not himself, but with his honor guard squad. Both times Marny faced the Swarmlord one on one he get horribly maimed.

Have you got anything which adds to the link in the following post?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Mojo1jojo wrote:

Calgar did not kill it, actually he had to run away while his champion held it of, not killing it either, with just enough time for Calgar to get away barley alive.It is said to room that world still coming out randomly too harass the locals

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/534896-.html

Anyway, the Swarmlord's chances against basically any Primarch aren't too great.

According to the white dwarf, Calgar whacked the swarmlord in single combat - it doesn't mention injuries or honour guard.
Have you got any other sources? I'd like to see it so I can catch up

 PredaKhaine wrote:
it doesn't mention injuries or honour guard.

It does not mention them being distracted or cut of of him either. Calgar is known to always fight alongside his honor guard, because well, he is not that stupid, and in fact one of the few Chapter Masters who is mentioned to actually command his forces most of the time instead of rushing into close combat, unless it is really important.

In the Tyranid codex, (unsure of the new SM one) the Swarmlord defeats Calgar, and leaves him crawling away to a Thunderhawk while his Honor guard hold him back. The Swarmlord kills the Honor Guard Champion and most of the guard present. Calgar escapes back to a T-Hawk.

However, I hadn't seen the piece on Calgar killing the Swarmlord. Is that in any codex or just a WD line?

 jifel wrote:
Is that in any codex or just a WD line?

It is from WD, and yes, it's only one line without any details.

Didn't the Swarmlord fight an Avatar?

Edit - Nope, just checked the dex and it was a generic Hive Tyrant and even then it wasn't a straight fight, it got gang banged by some Carnifex as well.

In the codex it says about calgar getting slapped around by the swarmlord and unless I overlooked a passage it doesn't mention him killing the swarmlord at a later stage

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Didn't the Swarmlord fight an Avatar?

The Avatar challenged the Swarmlord generic Hive Tyrant....and then got trampled by something like 12 carnifexes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann Fine wrote:
In the codex it says about calgar getting slapped around by the swarmlord and unless I overlooked a passage it doesn't mention him killing the swarmlord at a later stage

Round two was in white dwarf.

Here's the link again

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/534896-.html

 PredaKhaine wrote:


The Avatar challenged the Swarmlord....and then got trampled by something like 12 carnifexes

Was checking just as you posted and updating my post

Wasn't the Swarmlord but your every day Hive Tyrant

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Didn't the Swarmlord fight an Avatar?

No, he just tricked Avatar into trap and swamped him in Carnifexes. That's why the Swarmlord is so dangerous: no matter how deadly he is by himself, his main weapon are his armies backed up by his genius intellect.

Ceann Fine wrote:
In the codex it says about calgar getting slapped around by the swarmlord and unless I overlooked a passage it doesn't mention him killing the swarmlord at a later stage

Manry and Swarmy get three fights:
Om Maccrage Swarmlord won, an maimed Calgar
On Ichar-IV Calgar won and Killed Swarmlord
in 976.M41 they met again during Ultramarinr campeight agains Perseus splinter fleet, and Swarmlord horribly cripled Calgar (like cutting off al his limbs, one eye and large part of his body)
So it's now 2:1 for the Swarmlord, and while he becoming more and more dangerous after each rebirth, Marny is a cripple, still alive only with a help of bionics.

As above, it wasn't even the Swarmlord

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Wasn't the Swarmlord but your every day Hive Tyrant

The Swarmlord is the name given to him by humans, so you shouldn't expect Eldar calling him that, but considering his cunning and trickery The Great Beast of Iyanden was obviously the Swarmlord.

 Mezmerro wrote:
in 976.M41 they met again during Ultramarinr campeight agains Perseus splinter fleet, and Swarmlord horribly cripled Calgar (like cutting off al his limbs, one eye and large part of his body)
So it's now 2:1 for the Swarmlord, and while he becoming more and more dangerous after each rebirth, Marny is a cripple, still alive only with a help of bionics.

Where is this bit from?
I've never heard of this and I'd like to go read it

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Wasn't the Swarmlord but your every day Hive Tyrant

The Swarmlord is the name given to him by humans, so you shouldn't expect Eldar calling him that, but considering his cunning and trickery The Great Beast of Iyanden was obviously the Swarmlord.

Obviously?

They don't necessarily call them Hive Tyrants or Tyranids either but they are referred to in that way throughout.

Therefore, Hive Tyrant.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Obviously?

Entire hive fleet tactical foresight and flexibility doesn't drop dramatically after the death of a single Hive Tyrant, you know.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Obviously?

Entire hive fleet tactical foresight and flexibility doesn't drop dramatically after the death of a single Hive Tyrant, you know.

If all other Synapse Creatures have been killed then it does, ya know

And why not? All the Swarmlord is a bigger more powerful Hive Tyrant, they both do the same thing, the Swarm Lord is just better.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Obviously?

Entire hive fleet tactical foresight and flexibility doesn't drop dramatically after the death of a single Hive Tyrant, you know.

No it doesn't, but by that time Prince Yriel had already destroyed the fleet in space and had taken the fight to the remaining nids on Iyanden. He slew the Hive Tyrant near the end of the battle. At the point, it could even have been the last synapse creature about.

Have you got a link or a citation for

 Mezmerro wrote:
in 976.M41 they met again during Ultramarinr campeight agains Perseus splinter fleet, and Swarmlord horribly cripled Calgar (like cutting off al his limbs, one eye and large part of his body)
So it's now 2:1 for the Swarmlord, and while he becoming more and more dangerous after each rebirth, Marny is a cripple, still alive only with a help of bionics.

I'd like to read this bit

 Pilau Rice wrote:
If all other Synapse Creatures have been killed then it does, ya know

If all the other synapse creatures are killed there is no dire need to kill the Swarmlors, as there is no retranslators of his will to help him guide tyranids outside his huge but still limited synapse range.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
And why not? All the Swarmlord is a bigger more powerful Hive Tyrant, they both do the same thing, the Swarm Lord is just better.

The key point of the Swarmlor is not about he is more powerful (while he certainly is), but about he is smarter. Much, MUCH smarter. And his intellect is backed up with millenias of experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Have you got a link or a citation for

It's from really old 97 White Dwarf. It doesn't specifically mention the Swarmlord (because he wasn't in the fluff at that time) though, and might be outright retconned by now, seeing as Calgar have his bionic eye ling before this battle.

 Mezmerro wrote:

If all the other synapse creatures are killed there is no dire need to kill the Swarmlors, as there is no retranslators of his will to help him guide tyranids outside his huge but still limited synapse range.

So you leave him alone to his own devices, good plan

 Mezmerro wrote:
The key point of the Swarmlor is not about he is more powerful (while he certainly is), but about he is smarter. Much, MUCH smarter. And his intellect is backed up with millenias of experience.

Doesn't change that he is a bigger better Hive Tyrant and that both do pretty much the same thing. He might be smarter, but all he is is a smarter Hive Tyrant.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

good plan

The emphasis was on "dire"

 Pilau Rice wrote:

He might be smarter, but all he is is a smarter Hive Tyrant.

Did you just said that intellect and experience is NOT SO IMPORTANT for a warlord?