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What do you guys think about this Iron Hands list?

The idea is the whole army is either T5 with FNP and/or has IWND.

HQ

Captain (210)
-Bike
-Artificer Armour
-Shield Eternal
-Thunder Hammer

Command Squad (210)
-Bikes
-4 Grav-Guns
-Apothecary

Troops
5 Bikes (135)
-2 Grav-Guns

5 Bikes (135)
-2 Grav-Guns

5 Bikes (135)
-2 Grav-Guns

Fast Attack
Storm Talon (125)
-Skyhammer

Storm Talon (125)
-Skyhammer

Storm Talon (125)
-Skyhammer

Heavy Support
5 Centurions (410)
-Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amp

Stalker (75)

ADL (70)
-Comms Relay

Total- 1755

Points to play with, please see further down for discussions.

Hey just to point out that only the centurian sergeant has iwnd, the others don't.

I'd find 20 points to make the Centurions re-roll their wound rolls with grav-amplifiers.

Also you are short range with not a lot of models. I don't think Tau. Eldar, or DE would have a hard time killing all of your troops in one volley of fire.

and why the melta gun on the cammand squad? it cant split fire, so it would have to shoot at same things as grav. grav for anti meq, and melta for anti tank. i would replace it wit hanotehr grav, so that they all flow together well. my personel opinion at least.

and @Pony_law: you have to pay for grav amplifiers... ddidnt see that anywhere.

sems like a fine list. you are a little low on scoring models. those bikes need to get lose to shoot those melta, which generally mean that they will be able to get shot at by most of the enemies wepons, killing your scoring unuits.

Pony_law wrote:
Also you are short range with not a lot of models. I don't think Tau. Eldar, or DE would have a hard time killing all of your troops in one volley of fire.

Orks also would have an easy time against this list.
Grav-weapons just don't bother an Ork force. Better off with bolters.
The low amount of models, with no real close-combat threat. Once those small squads get caught in combat they're gone.

He already purchased the Grav Amp.


Ok, this list has two problems that I see.

It is a fast hitting list aimed for massive T2 Damage. Your Grav Centurions do not fit that bill. Not at all.

You do not have enough scoring bodies, and you are putting those scoring bodies immediately in harms way.


Here is my suggested fix.

Condense the two units of Centurions into one unit of four with TLLC/ML and the Omniscope. This gives you a unit that affects the entire board T1 and T2 which supports your force much better and it still can target two seperate units. A smart opponent will just ignore your Grav Cents T1 while they maneuver away and attempt to counter your Bikes. TLLC/ML Cents can't really be ignored T1 or T2 so they are affecting deployment and your opponent will need to devote some resources to killing them.

Now take another bike squad and it leaves you just enough points to upgrade that Command Melta to a Grav Gun, though an Apothecary in that squad would be great too and its the same amount of points. FNP5+ is better than 6+, 250% better actually. FNP6+ effectively gives you 120% starting wounds, FNP 5+ is effectively 150%. Makes your boss Chapter Master that much tougher to kill.

Forgive me if some one already pointed this out but you can not take a Command Squad if you take a Chapter Master, you unlock honor guard instead. You would need to change this for your list to be legal.

- I suggest dropping a squad of cents and trying out a LR of some flavor, cents are very slow, and with a lot of high maneuverability units around these days, they will be avoided, and shot to pieces. Also a LR with IWND sounds pretty fantastic on paper, try it out!

- You have 3 scoring units of 5 models a piece that die to pretty much everything in the meta, ignore cover is rampant, bale drakes, and riptide templates will demolish your troops in short order.

- Swap that melta gun for a grav in the command squad.

- cut one storm talon and your stalker replace them with 2 Thunderfire cannons.

Good luck sir.

Thanks for all the input so far guys, I've amended the OP to address the legality issues.

Leaves me with 95 points to play after taking an apothecary and sorting out the troop weaponry.

Dropping a talon would allow a 4th squad of bikes with 2 gravs and still leaves 85 points.

I guess i could bump all the bikes squad number to 6?

Thoughts please dakka.

Add attack bikes with HB and fix the melta gun on the bike squad then edit the Centurions to be kitted with Omni scope las cannon missle launcher and have them man the aegis.

Also the CMD squad I would kit out with melta guns, grav guns are great and all but gives you versatility to the list because everyone knows too much of one gun is going to hit you one way or the other.

you should toy with the idea of 2 ravens with techmarines inside and 2 servitors with them. making them a IWND and 2+ repair raven

Add attack bikes with HB and fix the melta gun on the bike squad

Certainly an option.

then edit the Centurions to be kitted with Omni scope las cannon missle launcher and have them man the aegis.

Firstly the ADL does not need manning as there is no gun, just a relay for my reserves. I'm really undecided on the centurion loadout. Grav is great but i do acknowledge the issue of range.

Also the CMD squad I would kit out with melta guns, grav guns are great and all but gives you versatility to the list because everyone knows too much of one gun is going to hit you one way or the other

This i don't agree with however, as the bikers are relentless, surely THE place to have Grav weaponary as i am always shooting the full number of shots, 3 per gun. and within that kinda rate of fire there is very little out there that i would be better off taking 4 MG's against instead of 4 Grav. The apothecary also makes my warlord a really beast. 2+ armour, 3+ inv, 5+ FNP and 5+ IWND, while smashing things with a hammer which should be striking the enemy at the same time as grav will shoot prior to charging making it initiative 1 as well.

The relay has to be active so a long rang unit might be worth it.

Bit of a re-right:

HQ Captain (Iron Hands)
-Bike
-Storm Shield
-Burning Blade
-Artificer Armour

HQ Captain
-Bike
-Thunder Hammer
-Shield Eternal
-Artificer Armour

HQ Command Squad
-Bikes
-4 Combi-Grav
-Apothecary
-Power Weapon
-2 Storm Shields

HQ Command Squad
-Bikes
-4 Combi-Grav
-Apothecary
-Power Weapon
-Melta Bombs
-2 Storm Shields

Troop 5 Bikers
-2 Grav Guns
-Combi-Grav

Troop 5 Bikers
-2 Grav Guns
-Combi-Grav

Troop 5 Bikers
-2 Melta Guns
-Combi-Melta

Troop 5 Bikers
-2 Flamers
-Combi-Flamer

Fast Attack Storm Talon Skyhammer

Fast Attack Storm Talon Skyhammer

Fast Attack Storm Talon Skyhammer

I like that last one the most

Last list looks really fun to play. I swap some of the grav in the troops for more melta though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although don't you think this would be much better as a White Scars list? First turn most of you army is probably going to be turbo boosting and that +1 to the jink save is going to be a lot more useful than a 6+ FNP.

White Scars are good now, however i feel the Iron Hands tactics also greatly benefit a bike army due to T5 all over to go with the FNP, and the IWND for characters and vehicles.

Difference is white scars HAVE to be bikers, Iron Hands benefit more from there rules by being on bikes.

IWND and FNP for characters is awesome.