Switch Theme:

Never Forget Benghazi!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Ahtman wrote:
I was starting to forget Benghazi, but thank goodness this came back up. Now, of course, I am not quite sure what the Alamo was or why we were supposed to remember that at one point.


Silly, Alamo is a line of excellent drafthouse movie theaters. I like the new one in Lakeline full of posters from the Planet of the Apes and a full bar.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Frazzled wrote:
So why would local leaders launch a major attack against US installations, when the US had just helped them overthrow the previous government? its not logical.


You should read the article you are commenting on, because your question is the main thrust of it. I mean, we can disagree whether their version of events is right or wrong, but it's not like they don't cover the material you're unclear on.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I read it. It just says he didn't like the west.

I think the moral of the story is:

1. Don't get involved in the region, ever. It took us multiple wars and conflicts to finally figure that one out (Afhganistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc), and the American people had to shout NO to a another (Syria) before anyone listened.
2. Inversely, Alamo Drafthouse is excellent.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 dogma wrote:
 whembly wrote:

A) Sent whatever resources to the site as a show of force. (send those planes in the area, drop the special forces into the midst, etc...)
B) Don't fething blame it on that youtube director.
C) Man up to the situation rather than attempting to deflect blame during the election season.


You're not answering the question, you're listing grievances.

Those aren't grievances dogma. o.O


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ahtman wrote:
I was starting to forget Benghazi, but thank goodness this came back up. Now, of course, I am not quite sure what the Alamo was or why we were supposed to remember that at one point.

Don't blame me... ya'll already know where I stand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 22:19:23


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Frazzled wrote:
I read it. It just says he didn't like the west.

I think the moral of the story is:

1. Don't get involved in the region, ever. It took us multiple wars and conflicts to finally figure that one out (Afhganistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia etc etc etc), and the American people had to shout NO to a another (Syria) before anyone listened.
2. Inversely, Alamo Drafthouse is excellent.


Yes. On the Syria thing I agree completely. If there is anything we should take away from our foreign adventures, I say it's that we don't always have to fight (Iraq) and when we do have to fight (Afghanistan) we need to to have a decision as to what constitutes "victory" before the first soldier starts lacing his boots and loading his mag.

They opened an Alamo Drafthouse in New York not far from where I lived recently. I have to say I am 100% jell. I think it would be fair to say I need to enroll in jelly school, even.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 whembly wrote:

Those aren't grievances dogma. o.O


If they aren't grievances, then what are they?

Also: please answer the initial question.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 07:18:24


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 Ahtman wrote:
I was starting to forget Benghazi, but thank goodness this came back up. Now, of course, I am not quite sure what the Alamo was or why we were supposed to remember that at one point.


Never forget the Maine either!

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I remember the Maine...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

You must be a true American patriot!

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

No destiny like Manifest Destiny!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 dogma wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Those aren't grievances dogma. o.O


If they aren't grievances, then what are they?

? Did you miss it? I'll restate:
A) Send whatever resources to the site as a show of force. (send those planes in the area, drop the special forces into the midst, etc...)
B) Don't fething blame it on that youtube director.
C) Man up to the situation rather than attempting to deflect blame during the election season.

Those aren't fething grievances... those are things they've could've done differently.

Also: please answer the initial question.

Just did. If you don't thing so, then please restate your question differently.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 whembly wrote:

Those aren't fething grievances... those are things they've could've done differently.


When you take issue, especially nondescript issue, with a set of actions you are essentially listing grievances.

 whembly wrote:

Just did. If you don't thing so, then please restate your question differently.


I want you to present a response, not criticize one which already exists. You're the expert on Benghazi, so it shouldn't be hard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 16:55:52


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Whatever man... you have no interest in my response.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 whembly wrote:


Did you miss it? I'll restate:
A) Send whatever resources to the site as a show of force. (send those planes in the area, drop the special forces into the midst, etc...)
B) Don't fething blame it on that youtube director.
C) Man up to the situation rather than attempting to deflect blame during the election season.



Can you tell me a bit more about A and C?

How do you envision it going down in those two categories?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Benghazi is an ointment for sore muscles right?

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
 whembly wrote:


Did you miss it? I'll restate:
A) Send whatever resources to the site as a show of force. (send those planes in the area, drop the special forces into the midst, etc...)
B) Don't fething blame it on that youtube director.
C) Man up to the situation rather than attempting to deflect blame during the election season.



Can you tell me a bit more about A and C?

How do you envision it going down in those two categories?

A) If any of our embassy/consulate was attacked... you simply send your resources into the region as a show of force. Full Stop. There's no need reason to ask, "will we make it in time?". That's the wrong philosophy to take.

We know the whole incident went on for hours... There were resources in Italy raring to go... We have units specifically designed for these sort of incident called FEST(Foreign Emergency Support Team)... Send 'em in. . General Ham from Africom was ready to send his resources (but was ordered not to... he resisted and thus was released from his command).

This does at least two simple things:
#1 Maybe provide help to those continuing the fight... they might've made it in time, or might not. We don't know... but, those Embassy/CIA folks deserve that chance.
#2 Telegraphs to the whole world that this won't be tolerated, it needs to be treated as if it's an "Act of War" and not as a "normal criminal incident".

Most glaring thing that I can remember is that we still don't know who issue the command to NOT send in FEST. Reports stated that they were ready to go and were very surprised that they didn't get the order (it's their job after all).

C) First, can we agree that this Administration's response evolved the way it did because it was during the election season? Lemme know if you disagree with that.

I'd like to think their response would be vastly different if it occured at any other time.

Remember, Obama was trouncing Romney on Foreign Policy issues at this time... at every speech he'd say something like we have "the terrorist on the run" spiel. The event's that transpired on some part in Cairo and largely in Benghazi became very problematic for Obama during the campaign.

Here's what I would've done in Obama's place. Realize that it isn't his fault, but it happened under his watch, so he should be The Executive and bear the responsibilty to ascertain what happened.
1) during the attack, order all and necessary resources to engage/extract in Benghazi
2) start an investigation to determine why we were attacked, were there enough security operatives, etc... DON'T WAIT FOR THE fething NEWS CREW TO DO YOUR INVESTIGATION!
3) it's likely that that any errors or missteps were caused by incompetence rather than malice. Remove/Fire those people deemed incompetence. Conduct full review of the entire department to ensure something like this doesn't happen again. Update protocols so that if your own fething Ambassador is lamenting the security issue, make sure the right folks get that request and act upon it.
4) all this time, I'd communicate to the American people of the status... instead of subliminally/accusing the youtube director or the evil Republicans (TM).
5) lastly, I'd ask for Hillary Clinton resignation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 22:35:39


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

And if a crazy group attacked the Russian consulate in the USA and the Russians send a full scale military response to protect "their" embassy and sends jets and helicopters into the US everybody would crap their pants and scream bloody murder about a foreign country conducting military attacks here.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
And if a crazy group attacked the Russian consulate in the USA and the Russians send a full scale military response to protect "their" embassy and sends jets and helicopters into the US everybody would crap their pants and scream bloody murder about a foreign country conducting military attacks here.


Of course not... The US is expected to defend/protect embassies here, just like everwhere else.

Nice try to derail this conversation.

The Libyan government was in not in position to help the consulate.

The Libyan government gave the green light for us to send whatever we need.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 whembly wrote:

Remember, Obama was trouncing Romney on Foreign Policy issues at this time... at every speech he'd say something like we have "the terrorist on the run" spiel. The event's that transpired on some part in Cairo and largely in Benghazi became very problematic for Obama during the campaign.


They really didn't, and I remember many commentators lamenting that fact, but the reality is that the majority of Americans don't particularly care about attacks on Americans abroad.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 dogma wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Remember, Obama was trouncing Romney on Foreign Policy issues at this time... at every speech he'd say something like we have "the terrorist on the run" spiel. The event's that transpired on some part in Cairo and largely in Benghazi became very problematic for Obama during the campaign.


They really didn't, and I remember many commentators lamenting that fact, but the reality is that the majority of Americans don't particularly care about attacks on Americans abroad.

That may be true, but the Obama Campaign certainly thought so... and thus acted accordingly.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 whembly wrote:

Nice try to derail this conversation.


And now I remember why I started to ignore you on this topic to begin with.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Nice try to derail this conversation.


And now I remember why I started to ignore you on this topic to begin with.


What? I feel like you wanna nitpick in order to derail...

Sending forces pronto to Libya in response to an attack is NOT the same as Russian sending their forces if their Russian Embassy in US is attacked.

The host nation has an obligation to protect their guest embassy... which Libya stated they couldn't.

Would YOU change anything? Or, do you think this administration's response was as good it's going to get?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/01 01:01:10


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






Are you really comparing the USA, a first world country with a fully functional government, and Libya which had just come out of a civil war and had no established government or state controlled security infrastructure?

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 whembly wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Nice try to derail this conversation.


And now I remember why I started to ignore you on this topic to begin with.


What? I feel like you wanna nitpick in order to derail...

Sending forces pronto to Libya in response to an attack is NOT the same as Russian sending their forces if their Russian Embassy in US is attacked.

The host nation has an obligation to protect their guest embassy... which Libya stated they couldn't.

Would YOU change anything? Or, do you think this administration's response was as good it's going to get?


I think we should have given them the security they asked for instead of a systematic issue of cutting funding at the legislative level and denying increased security at the DOS level.

I also think we should look at every embassy attack since 2000 and try to figure out what makes Benghazi so special that more feths are given over that attack than any other attack during that time frame, taking into account that we had 13 attacks on US diplomatic facilities under Bush resulting in the deaths of 55 people and that we had 1 earlier attack under Obama in 2010 that resulted in the deaths of 8 people.

So in the 12 years prior to Benghazi we had 14 embassy attacks resulting in 63 deaths and zero feths were given.

But a couple months before the election an embassy attack results in 4 deaths and now we suddenly give all the feths.

So why, after 63 deaths, do we suddenly care so much?

Is it because #64-67 is where we drew the line? After 12 years of people attacking our embassy and killing people we suddenly have enough?

14 attacks and 63 deaths, and nothing.

Attack #15 and deaths #64-67 during the peak of the election, and now we care.

But Obama is the guy that played politics with Benghazi.

And that is why anybody can see what is really happening here, and that is why nobody cares except people that can't stand Obama.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/01 04:57:54


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Are you really comparing the USA, a first world country with a fully functional government, and Libya which had just come out of a civil war and had no established government or state controlled security infrastructure?

Which won't matter one bit if the country whose embassy is attacked feels that the "host country cannot provide adequate security" or decides to start playing politics for their people at home to flex their military muscle.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

I knew that US diplomatic missions had been attacked in the past d-usa but I never knew it was on that level. Certainly makes this complaint look a lot sillier.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Nice try to derail this conversation.


And now I remember why I started to ignore you on this topic to begin with.


What? I feel like you wanna nitpick in order to derail...

Sending forces pronto to Libya in response to an attack is NOT the same as Russian sending their forces if their Russian Embassy in US is attacked.

The host nation has an obligation to protect their guest embassy... which Libya stated they couldn't.

Would YOU change anything? Or, do you think this administration's response was as good it's going to get?


I think we should have given them the security they asked for instead of a systematic issue of cutting funding at the legislative level and denying increased security at the DOS level.

Good...

I also think we should look at every embassy attack since 2000 and try to figure out what makes Benghazi so special that more feths are given over that attack than any other attack during that time frame, taking into account that we had 13 attacks on US diplomatic facilities under Bush resulting in the deaths of 55 people and that we had 1 earlier attack under Obama in 2010 that resulted in the deaths of 8 people.

So in the 12 years prior to Benghazi we had 14 embassy attacks resulting in 63 deaths and zero feths were given.

But a couple months before the election an embassy attack results in 4 deaths and now we suddenly give all the feths.

So why, after 63 deaths, do we suddenly care so much?

Is it because #64-67 is where we drew the line? After 12 years of people attacking our embassy and killing people we suddenly have enough?

14 attacks and 63 deaths, and nothing.

Attack #15 and deaths #64-67 during the peak of the election, and now we care.

But Obama is the guy that played politics with Benghazi.

And that is why anybody can see what is really happening here, and that is why nobody cares except people that can't stand Obama.

Where do you draw the line D?

You do know what you are doing... don't ya D? You're not really ADDRESSING this administration's response to Benghazi. Tell me you're not trying to deflect it by pointing out past events.

Frankly... it's about two issues:

#1) Yes, all those other attacks/death prior to Benghazi does need more accounting. I'm hoping there were given the proper accounting... and if not, someone needs to answer.

#2) The Obama administration's response to this event was deplorable. C'mon D... are you buying everything they've told us? That's it was largely because of that anti-Islam video? You know what? I can dislike the President's policies and agenda... but, that's okay because I know our President will only be in office for 4/8 years. I can easily live with that. But you know get's in my craw? It's the fact that, during the election season, the Obama campaign thought it was in their best interest to lay blame to that youtube director and deflect it as long as possible, than to tell the American people the hard truths.

This ordeal burns me up waaaay more than the PPACA or any other things Obama did...

But, ya'll knew that.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

It's a lost cause...
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Kanluwen wrote:
Which won't matter one bit if the country whose embassy is attacked feels that the "host country cannot provide adequate security" or decides to start playing politics for their people at home to flex their military muscle.

You seem a tad confused. There isn't a country on earth that could do that to the United States in the manner the United States could do that to Libya.

It's fun to pretend that everybody's equal, but the only superpower in the world can get away with far more than anybody else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 motyak wrote:
I knew that US diplomatic missions had been attacked in the past d-usa but I never knew it was on that level. Certainly makes this complaint look a lot sillier.

While it's certainly true that our diplomatic missions were attacked plenty under Bush, that administration's response was never to blame an American and have the Secretary of State get on TV in foreign countries apologizing for the possibility that said American individual might have offended someone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/01 07:32:43


 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Seaward wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 motyak wrote:
I knew that US diplomatic missions had been attacked in the past d-usa but I never knew it was on that level. Certainly makes this complaint look a lot sillier.

While it's certainly true that our diplomatic missions were attacked plenty under Bush, that administration's response was never to blame an American and have the Secretary of State get on TV in foreign countries apologizing for the possibility that said American individual might have offended someone.


This, times a million.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: