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Need an 1850 list for a tournament. The DA Libby goes with the cents to give them a 4++ and re-rolls to hit.

Still need to spend 95pts, and I can get another 35pts by dropping the DA Rhino.

1765

HQ
Tigurius - 165

TROOPS
Tactical Squad w/MM, MG, Rhino - 195
Tactical Squad w/MM, MG, Rhino - 195

FAST ATTACK
Stormtalon w/Skyhammer ML - 125
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Centurions w/Gravs, Grav-Amps, Omni-scope - 260

DARK ANGELS

HQ
Libby w/PSG - 95

TROOPS
Tactical Squad w/LC, PG, Rhino - 210

ADL w/Quad - 100

I dont think the DA are really doing anything for you. I would recommend dropping them and adding more scoring units that can use your chapter abilities.

I would also change 2 mm bikes into another talon. 1 talon is sure to die to a quad gun etc, but 2 can be a threat.

Who is manning the quad in this list? Seems like they are all in rhinos and no one around for it.

The DA are giving my Cents a 4++ and re-roll to hit. How is that jot helping a lot?

And I will be dropping one of the Rhinos from somewhere, just not sure where. That squad will be manning the quad gun.

The centurions who are slow and purposeful an only have a 24 inch range are not very efficient to begin with let alone adding 95 points to give them a 4++

Isn't tigerious just better for you and you can reinvest the other points into your own chapter.

I'm loving Dev Cents with Grav/Amps. It makes a lot of sense to give them the DA Libby. 24" is a decent amount of board control. You plop them in the central of your deployment, on the edge. You move 6" every turn (less if in terrain). That's 30" threat range. Even if you're playing Dawn of War, as long as you deploy them right, they will only be "out of range" a single turn if that. With the libby, very few things will be able to wipe that squad. For 355 points, the enemy will HAVE to deal with it, or risk losing a vehicle/MC EVERY turn. It's a decent amount of points, but it forces your opponents hand. All the while, the rest of your army does what it pleases.

Libby is a good addition to Cents. Rerolls to hit, then with amps, rerolls to wound. Please don't let dakka change your mind. I've seen this argument several times on Dakka and it saddens me. Cents are good for what they do. If you don't believe me, go to your gaming table, take out your measuring tape and place a model in your 12" deployment. Now, pull out 30" of tape and look at your threat range. It's huge.

I think most units have a use somewhere in the game. It's not that centurions are bad but I think there are better options in the book and I highly doubt you will ever seen them in a competitive list. I am not saying its not good but for close to 20 percent of an 1850 lists points I don't this there that good.

Of course they will kill a mc which you mentioned, except all the relevant ones... Hive tyrants fly and so will be hard to target (yes you can shoot then down first. Maybe) tervigons die. Big deal. Lol. Riptides will never be close to you. And good tau player will never let you that close with jsj and can have a 3++. Wraithknights die if they are bad enough to let you by a jump creature. You will probably die to serpent spam far before that. Also of the demons mc don't even have armor (except princes) so you wound the guo on 6+. Not very reliable. Vs most units you want to use them on your not going to get there vs a good player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can't even shoot them when you get charges as they are slow and purposeful.

okay lets look at how easy it is to counter dev cents.
tactical squad or sternguard in a drop pod with a few Grav weps oh look at that squad you've paid 260+ points for be wiped away.

BA vindicator 1 hit they're gone.

Agreed. There just too expensive.

Do you think the Lascannon varientnis better?

Well the las cannon missile really has a different roll. The thing I like about them is they can stay back behind an Aline or in a ruin and basically get the 4+ save your looking for without being close enough for vindicators and other stuff. In the long run it saves you points over the librarian to make the Grav squad good.

The closer you are to you opponent the more crap he can rain down on them. Basically killing them with the lib is like killing 6 th/ss terminators but your inv is worse...

I like the shooty ones especially that the lascannon are twin linked!

Ragnar, i ran one unit of each when i played Alex. A better play for those centurions, appose to allying a DA libby for a 4+ invul, might be. Take a Chapter master, with the eternal warrior shield and a beefed up weapon.
He now has slow and purposeful so he can move and fire his bombardment. Also note that even though the centurion leader is getting the omni scope. It still gives the whole unit split fire as its a USR (i know only 1 model in the unit can fire at a separate target), IE so the chapter master can fire at a different target if he wants.

You will have techmarines to bolster runes. Try to get the centurions 18" up into runes if you can. They will have 3+cover, 2+ armor. And if you are hit with a ap2 weapon that ignore cover. You have chapter master infront with 4 wounds eternal warriors. Hell even put the chapter master on a bike. So if there are no guns on the table that are str 10, ap 2 and ignore cover that chapter master can detach anytime and go troop choice hunting.

I ran 2 units of Centurions. One was lascannon out with Imperial fist Chapter, one was allied Ultramarines with Grav weapons to reroll 1's one turn, reroll snap shots of 1 another turn.

I have no prefference to either. Do you see demons alot? Chaos spawn? Tyranid swarm list. Grav guns will be less useful vs certain units.

I appreciate whats everyone has said.. But a stern squad dropping in, a vindicator str 10 shot.... will hardly dent the centurions. He has 2 thunderfire cannons, 2 runes bolstered, 3+ cover saves. You think someones gonna run 260 point squad out in the open? The only ranged weapon that messes these guys up is the Tau riptide str 9, large blast ap2, ignores cover gun. Hence why i suggested throwing and eternal warrior IC in front.

The best way to get Grav guns In range is on bikes. Command squads with Grav are awesome and alot more maneuverable. Also t 5 (worse save but at least have jink).

 Icelord wrote:
The best way to get Grav guns In range is on bikes. Command squads with Grav are awesome and alot more maneuverable. Also t 5 (worse save but at least have jink).

I considered this also, but no twin link, no reroll to wound or armor immobilization chance. And a Hell drake wipes the unit out...

Not to many deamons. Maybe 1 at a tourney. The guy that gives me the most problems is a TMC spam guy where everything is T6 and has either a 2+ or a 3+. And most of my meta are SM. Occasionally there is an Eldar or Tau army but if there is there is only 1 .

If a hell drake is your worry then you shouldn't be playing marines haha. Most of your army gets killed by them. Haha

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Not to many deamons. Maybe 1 at a tourney. The guy that gives me the most problems is a TMC spam guy where everything is T6 and has either a 2+ or a 3+. And most of my meta are SM. Occasionally there is an Eldar or Tau army but if there is there is only 1 .

Then Grav Guns in cent devs might work best, with that chapter master EW in front. Not sure what initiative tyranid fast swarms are. But Scout speeders are great, large blast, str2, blind.

No matter what you do, you have to respect the Helldrake, that is the one thing that really shuts down new space marines. Anything you can make a troop choice, it can instant kill with no saves allowed.
Good luck man!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icelord wrote:
If a hell drake is your worry then you shouldn't be playing marines haha. Most of your army gets killed by them. Haha

what he said ^^^^

But at least Centurion devs, with gravs have a great chance to knock em out... 15 shots, twinlinked = what 4-5 hits? and then you need 2 6's to destroy it... but you get to reroll the attempts. (as far as i can tell the helldrake does not get invuls) Helldrake comes on kills a troop choice. Then you hopefully shut it down. With Bikes, you have no chance.

Okay, so this is what I have now. Need to trim some points for the Chapter Master. Where should I get them from?

1665

HQ
Tigurius - 165

TROOPS
Tactical Squad w/MM, MG, Rhino - 195
Tactical Squad w/MM, MG, Rhino - 195
Tactical Squad w/LC, PG - 175

FAST ATTACK
Stormtalon w/Skyhammer ML - 125
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Centurions w/Gravs, Grav-Amps, Omni-scope - 260

ADL w/Quad - 100

If you know you might 1-2 ruins on your table, might consider taking down the ADL with Quad. That quad is really not gonna do much. I came to realize once new eldar came out, that str 7 interceptor is not good unless you have tank hunter. If you ran Cent with las, as imperial fist it might be worth it.

Anyway with 1-2 ruins, you have 2 tech marines who can bolster ruins. Thats 3 + cover. If you have Area terrain or a hill. You could still get 3+ by going to ground.

I would suggest, in this order.
Quad Gun
ADL itself
trim down tact squads, i know you lose one of the weapons. But you have bikes that have the MM, can move 12 and in most cases still be within 12. The tact squad cannot move at all in order to not have to snap fire the MM, so most people might stay 12 1/8" away.

I think a decked out chapter master is like 220? thats himself, the 50point shield, and a decent blade (like burning blade)
You might be able to ally into another space marine chapter. Get the chapter master, one of the tact squads (which you are already accounting for) and pick up a second stormtalon which will compensate the loss of the Quad gun. 2 units in reserve really play well with Tigurius's rerolls.

If you take out the quad, which personally I am not sure is a good idea you definitely need to get at least 1 other talon. I know the quad gun isn't good at killing hell drakes but if you don't have answers to them you will get rocked. Personally I am running 3 talon, 2 t fire, and devs with Lascannons (fists).

I just dont like the Quad gun, cause i play Dark eldar mostly and i just poison it down turn 1.

The helldrake threat was specifically what i was compensating a 2nd storm talon for. You could consider twin Lascannon on them. Also on paper a Grav Centurion squad should be able to knock out a helldrake. Remember no saves for the helldrake...

quad + ad = 125?
4 space marines and 2 MM = 80?

You are at 1665

Add storm talon 125 (140 if you go twin lascannon)
Add Chapter master 220
+ left over to put marines back in tact squads if you have to.

Again this is my play style and preference. I certainly am not saying this IS THE WAY, or my way is right, its just suggestions. Maybe Quad is worth keeping.... I just stopped using it in my de/eldar when fire dragons lost tank hunter. I found str 7 couldnt even take down vendettas . Let alone armor 12.

OK, I'm really liking this list. Don't have my book on me so the point might be a little off on the Chapter Master.

1844

HQ
Chapter Master w/AA, Eternal Shield, Bike, Burning Sword- 250?

TROOPS
8 Tactical Squad w/MG, Rhino - 157
8 Tactical Squad w/MG, Rhino - 157

FAST ATTACK
Stormtalon w/Skyhammer ML - 125
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110
2 MM Attack Bikes - 110

HEAVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Centurions w/Gravs, Grav-Amps, Omni-scope - 260

ULTRA MARINES

HQ
Tigurius - 165

TROOPS
Tactical Squad w/LC, PG - 175

ADL w/Lascannon - 85

Looks solid, spend the final 5 points giving someone melta bombs. Best of luck, follow up with how the tourney went.

get predator and termies