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so i have about 2500 points of a drop pod Salamanders army - Heavy Dreads (actually fielded 6 of them at Nova 2 yrs ago ) and a 2000 point Raven Wing Army ( ran this at NOVA 3 yrs ago). with some tacs and a couple of WW's

Ive been playing the ravenwing to limited success and feel that they just dont compete in a heavily competitive Tournament. If im going to use bikes... then the best would be to use White scars chapter tactics.

Now with the new SM dexi was hoping that i could field a competitive Salamanders Drop pod list but i find a few things lacking from the last codex. That is making the Flamers on dreads twin linked. Now with a loss of that i dont feel the heavy sally list is the way to go... personally if im going to use dreads the Iron Hands Chapter traits work the best.

So presently heres the list ive come up with White Scars/ Iron Hands

Primary White Scars: (my Ravenwing will go here and Khan would be the only model to buy )

HQ: Khan w/ Moondrakken 150

Command Squad:
5 bikes 5 grav guns 210

Troops:
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135

Heavy Support
TFC 100
TFC 100
WhirlWind 65

Secondary: Iron Hands (this is my Salamanders Army Have all)

HQ: Master of the Forge 90

Troops:
Tac squad w/ Drop Pod 105

Elite:
IronClad w/flamer and Drop Pod 180

Heavy:
IronClad w/flamer and Drop Pod 180

1850

to go to 2000 im not sure.

Upgrade the WW to a TFC and add a 6th bike squad with flamers ?
or a scout squad in a speeder ? or a second drop pod tac squad.


So i Have lots of Gravs to take out Tau Tides and Vehicals and i can out run Other Grav Terduckins and kill them at range

Dreads Get in your face turn 1 and either threaten a tank or 2 or burn up ageis line squads. Armour 13 and IWND make them much more efficient. The enemy will need to deal with them on the drop. No one wants Ironclads rampaging your lines.

Khan give scouts as well as making bikers score. also 1+ jink is awsome.

Bikes use either gravs or bolter hordes.

TFCs and WW just bomb stuff. All are barrage and can snipe or ignore cover. I like the WW when paired with 2 TFCs

i can bolster 3 pieces of terrain as well for added cover

It looks like a very effective army.

I'd say two things though:

1) I would take AV12 with Venerable over an Ironclad anyday. You get increased accuracy, a multi melta, and increased weapon skill in addition to being harder to kill. Yeah, AV13 is nice, but its not better than being basically immune to vehicular instant death.
2) If you wanted to get more firepower you could outfit all the Biker Sergeants with combi-gravs if you manage to free up points anywhere.

Interesting call on the Vens Mr Omega. To be honest i didnt notice the 40 point reduction in venerables.

vens free up pints for some combi

I would drop 1 bike squad and add 3 attack bikes with HB.
Units without AB run melta guns or flamers. Needing one unit of flamers at least.

Jpat1213 wrote:
I would drop 1 bike squad and add 3 attack bikes with HB.
Units without AB run melta guns or flamers. Needing one unit of flamers at least.

You're suggesting that he exchange 6 AP2 shots that wound on your Sv value, immobilize vehicles and have concussive should be exchanged for 9 S5 AP4 shots. Despite the fact that every model can fire their TL bolters and bolt pistols to handle hordes anyway.

Uh, no. Not in any alternate universe would that be a good idea.

Meltaguns might have been a good idea in 5th edition. He already has a pair of Thunder fire Cannons, Dreadnoughts and the ability to move massive distances, shoot and charge. Flamers are not needed.

Flamers are for horde control or anything not power armor adds versatility that the grav lacks combined will be strong. HB shots also add that

Jpat1213 wrote:
Flamers are for horde control or anything not power armor adds versatility that the grav lacks combined will be strong. HB shots also add that

1) Hordes aren't even that competitive at all and are rare as hell.
2) Did you read my post? Every one of those bike squads can probably kill about 6-7 Orks in a single fusillade, and that's before they charge and finish them off. And that's if we act like his entire WS heavy support section doesn't exist.
3) Flamers and heavy bolters are pointless and are absolutely worthless against MC's or tough infantry, both of which are common. Guess what a Grav Gun is good against?

yea im finding that i have enough things to deal with hordes. the TFC and WW do a very nice job. I can also threaten hordes with the drad flamers as well. Bikes also have massed bolter shots as well.

Here is a revised list:

Primary White Scars: (my Ravenwing will go here and Khan would be the only model to buy )

HQ: Khan w/ Moondrakken 150

Command Squad:
5 bikes 5 grav guns 210

Troops:
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135
5 bikers 2 grav guns 135

Heavy Support
TFC 100
TFC 100
WhirlWind 65

Secondary: Iron Hands (this is my Salamanders Army Have all)

HQ: Master of the Forge w/ conversion beamer 110

Troops:
Tac squad w/ Drop Pod 105

Elite:
Ven Dread w/flamer and Drop Pod 170

Heavy:
Ven Dread w/flamer and Drop Pod 170

1850

went with ven dreads and had now 20 points to spend. Added a conv beamer to the motf. Ill stick him with the tac squad and drop there pod empty.

gonna test out the vens and see if i like them.

zedsdead wrote:
Now with the new SM dexi was hoping that i could field a competitive Salamanders Drop pod list but i find a few things lacking from the last codex. That is making the Flamers on dreads twin linked. Now with a loss of that i dont feel the heavy sally list is the way to go... personally if im going to use dreads the Iron Hands Chapter traits work the best.

You're not the first person I've encountered who has said the same about the salamanders tactics however, reading the special rule 'Flamecraft' suggests that they are. Taking Vulkan makes only melta mastercrafted but flamecraft says flamers get to re-roll failed to wound rolls. Since the definition of twin-linked template weapons is re-rolling wound rolls everything's golden.

unfortunatly flamecraft is a Chapter tactic ability and since chapter tactics do not apply to vehicals. Dread flamers and redeemer flamers dont get flamecraft. The only thing they get is Vulcans master crafted meltas.

I would love to have the ability however i dont see it without a faq.

The Venerable is nice but with the amount of S6 shooting out there that relies on stripping hull points vs. good chart rolls (Wave Serpents anyone?), I think I'd go with the AV13. Either way it's pick your poison. Like the army concept though.

Egregious i agree. i have a couple of test games this week so im going to try both. I think the biggest question is which dreads have a better survival rate vs tau intercept. Short of mathhammering the survivability im hoping to test it vs a few tau/eldar lists.

I think the key thing is the dreads need to survive the drop. Maybe neither is a viable option and if thats the case ill need to rethink the list all together. Hopefully not because on paper it looks fun and competitive

You have no anti air in this list that will be very vunerable to helldrakes.

at Nova this year there was barely a helldrake to be seen. In all honestly i put more faith in rolling a few 6s on a squad that puts out 15 grav shots than any of the new SM anti flyer tanks

zedsdead wrote:
at Nova this year there was barely a helldrake to be seen. In all honestly i put more faith in rolling a few 6s on a squad that puts out 15 grav shots than any of the new SM anti flyer tanks

Your list has 51grav gun shots and if you fired every single one at a flyer (unlikely) you'd shave off average 1.4 hull points.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

zedsdead wrote:
at Nova this year there was barely a helldrake to be seen. In all honestly i put more faith in rolling a few 6s on a squad that puts out 15 grav shots than any of the new SM anti flyer tanks

Your list has 51grav gun shots and if you fired every single one at a flyer (unlikely) you'd shave off average 1.4 hull points.

ill gladly velocity lock a flyer

I would like to ask what your ravenwing army list was? I have yet to see a defeat not counting one person who slow played so hard we got to his turn 3 at a tourney and I didn't even get mine so he contested my points with no way to reclaim. I may not be in meta central out here on the west coast, but I feel we have strong lists come through.

I may also ask if your not willing to pickup a few more models why not run a furioso dread from BA instead? Take a DC dread as a troop as well. Those frag cannons are death incarnate when they land.