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So I have been playing this game since the end of June, I have a few games under my belt and a good understanding for the rules. But I am having trouble with my lists. So I was thinking maybe if I give you guys a list of the models/casters I have, you could assist me in writing a good list as I can't quite seem to grasp it.

Casters:
p and e Sorscha
p and e Irusk
The old Witch

Warjacks:
Destroyer
Juggernaut
Marauder
Decimator
Demolisher
Devastator
Spriggan

Units:
Winter guard Infantry (10)
-Winter guard officer and standar
-Winter guard rocketeers (3)
Winter guard Infantry (10)
Winter guard mortar crew x2
Greylords Ternion (3)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (5)
Widow Makers (4)

Solos:
Kovnik Joe
War Dog
Manhunter
Koldun Lord

Mercenaries:
Kell Bailoch
Gorman Di Wulfe
Eiryss 2
Reinholdt Gobber Speculator

I am really looking to get a competitive list down, I really do like using Sorscha and I have learned how to use the old witch a bit, the three casters I have (5 if you count prime and epic) I have grow very accustom to.

I have been losing a lot to Cygnar with either minute men spam, or his collosal. I am open to ways that will beat this but also be a TAC list. That is probably the main priority.

I am open to picking up any models that will help me achieve victory for the motherland but I would like to make the best of what I have here.

So please assist me in creating a few 35pt and maybe 50pt lists.

Here's a 50pt eIrusk list I tossed together that should play to his strengths.

eIrusk
-Spriggan
-War Dog

max Winter Guard with UA +1 rocket
max Winter Guard with 1 rocket
max Shocktroopers

2 Mortars

Kovnik Joe

Koldun Lord
-Destroyer


Irusk is an infantry support caster, and you have plenty of infantry.

Personally, I would run him with some IFP instead of the Shocktroopers and squeeze in their UA. They get a lot out of Battle Lust, but so do Winter Guard.

Put Fire for Effect on a mortar and upkeep it every turn. Even its blast damage will be very dangerous, and anything directly hit is going to be hurting. Also works well on a Destroyer.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Here's a 50pt eIrusk list I tossed together that should play to his strengths.

eIrusk
-Spriggan
-War Dog

max Winter Guard with UA +1 rocket
max Winter Guard with 1 rocket
max Shocktroopers

2 Mortars

Kovnik Joe

Koldun Lord
-Destroyer


Irusk is an infantry support caster, and you have plenty of infantry.

Personally, I would run him with some IFP instead of the Shocktroopers and squeeze in their UA. They get a lot out of Battle Lust, but so do Winter Guard.

Put Fire for Effect on a mortar and upkeep it every turn. Even its blast damage will be very dangerous, and anything directly hit is going to be hurting. Also works well on a Destroyer.

This sounds great, I will try it out next time I play. But I am really trying to avoid getting IFP because they are so damn expensive >.> I feel like there are other things I can get. (LIke a battlefoam 432)

I'm usually happy to help people tweek lists or offer advice on bringing a list up from 15 to 25 for example.

I"m a bit hesitant here and this is why. List building in WM/H is about synergy and play styles. I find that If I just build a list for you it might not do you any good unless I explain how it works together.

You have a good start with the models you have, the question is can you squeeze all the potential you have out of them.

So in that vein here is a list based on your models. Personnaly I would swap out the WGDS for IFP, and I would squeeze in Kayazy Assassins with Underboss as well. I used most of your models and you would need minimum purchases to run this.



Supreme Kommandant Irusk (*5pts)
* Spriggan (10pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Greylord Ternion (Leader and 2 Grunts) (4pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (3pts)
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Kell Bailoch (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
Manhunter (2pts)
Manhunter (2pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)


So how to make this work well. You hot swap FFE on the morters, Advance the Grey Lords right behind the WGDS to freeze the high def stuff so the WGDS or Mortars can hit it, ManHunters can harass a flank, and the widowmakers can focus on removing arcnodes. and important peices like UA, Standard Barriers ect. A&H are there to give you magical weapons, and harm on a stick.

Still not optimal but it will be a fun list.

So are you suggesting that I need IFP to be optimal? They just seem like too much money for what I am getting :( it is hard to pull the trigger on a purchase that size.

I think the issue is more that the redundancy of the WGI doesn't help as much as having another unit like the IFP or Kayazy, both units that present different issues to the opponent and to a certain extent allow you to address different issues in a game.

Having said that: IFP are a really solid unit. I had much the same thoughts opinions about them myself initially, but they really are one of our solid units. Granted, it'd be nice to have plastic versions of them (they're heavy as hell and lord knows those pikes don't stay straight).

The game doesn't really reward duplicating units. The second unit of WGI won't be as effective as the first because they won't have the UA.

The IFP are very expensive, even for infantry, but you are getting your money's worth. They are quite big models(about the size of a Terminator) and you get the full unit.

The game really rewards balanced armies that take different units to do complimentary jobs.

The WGI deathstar is a good tarpit unit that can also kill stuff. Its also a mixed threat unit with both shooting and melee.

IFP with UA are more difficult to damage when in Shield Wall. Durable via higher armor instead of Tough like the WGI. The Pikemen are also better in melee. Critical Knockdown is also a very useful ability, as is having Reach.

Do I want black dragon IFP or just normal ones? I could get them, or a collosus but I guess them would be much better.

They do different things, and both are very good at what they bring.

the regular UA gives you Pathfinder on the charge, and a once per game free advance and shield wall at the end of your activation.

This means you can charge stuff, deal some damage, and then reform back into a defensive formation.


The Black Dragon UA gives you the abilty to pick which column gets damaged when attacking a jack or beast. You can pick off specific systems or aspects rather than leaving it to chance.

He also gives you the Iron Zeal Mini-feat. It gives you the same armor buff as shield wall. And if stacked you will be Arm22. Or it can give you the effectiveness of shield wall on a turn you have charged(except you don't need to be in btb)


Either UA will be amazing with an IFP unit. and many players will field two units so they can have both. Do note that the Black Dragon kit is NOT a complete model, its extra bits for the normal IFP and UA. So you'd need to buy both the IFP, UA, and the Black Dragon kit to run a unit of Black Dragon IFP with UA.

 Nafarious wrote:
Do I want black dragon IFP or just normal ones? I could get them, or a collosus but I guess them would be much better.

Depends on your play style:

The Black Dragon IFP are good if you want a really tough, durable unit, especially given their mini-Feat which basically grants them a Shield Wall even without being in Shield Wall formation. Furthermore, they're great for disabling 'jacks/beasts because of Precision Strike.

That said, it's really difficult to pass up the chance at getting Pathfinder on the charge, which can be crucial against certain armies/lists. (Having said that, I highly recommend reading through the FAQ on how the regular IFP UA mini-feat works, since it's not actually quite as straightforward as it may seem).

I tend toward the regular IFP personally, though that just may be because most of my games have a lot of Difficult Terrain to contend with, and having the Pathfinder on the Charge is incredibly critical. (That, and my friend tends to roll over my armor regardless of the +4 ARM bonus or not ).

I would play around with both and see which one you prefer.

I own and use both the IFP and the WGDS. Both are great units and both have their places in lists. Its all about what the designated role is going to be. WGDS are great for jamming up a zone and staying alive. IFP are awesome for going after heavies (and you will need units that can take down heavies). Also certain casters are going to support certain units better. IF casters do great things for the WDGS but the IFP can be every bit as effective without a caster that is there to hand it out..... Make sense?

Oh and IFP with the IFK and GB is just stupid fun to run with pIrusk......


Here is an example of a fun pIrusk list that makes your opponent answer a lot of questions.....

Kommandant Irusk (*6pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Greylord Outriders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kovnik Markov (4pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)

Hmm I guess you guys have convinced me. I will try to get some IFP, Kayazy, and Big B.

If you're not quite ready to make the plunge yet, just proxy them with the WGI you have for a bit to get a feel for them.

 Jin wrote:
If you're not quite ready to make the plunge yet, just proxy them with the WGI you have for a bit to get a feel for them.

+1 to this. Try them out in fun games before you commit your time and money.

Oh and Jin, The bendy pikes are fun and easy to replace....ok I can't say that with a strait face. it took me hours and a few drill bits to replace the pikes with brass rod, but they aint going anywhere now...

That is a good idea. I will try it out. What do you think is a good list for them? Keep in mind I don't have any Kayazy.

Here is one of the best list building tools on the interwebs, keep in mind that Butcher 3 and the IFK have not been added yet, but it is great for putting stuff together.

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

Here is fun list that wont break the bank and uses a bunch of what you already have.

I wouldnt play it in a Masters but its fun and has some good synergy

Kommander Sorscha (*5pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 2 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (2pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Kell Bailoch (2pts)
Manhunter (2pts)
Manhunter (2pts)