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I keep hearing people talk about riptides intercepting models with shots that are twin linked and ignore cover. I don't see how this is done. I understand people say join a buff commander with MSS and a CCN but both of those systems rules specifically limit their buffs to the shooting phase. Interceptor doesn't happen in the shooting phase it happens at the end of the opponents movement phase. Am I wrong? If so explain why.

Shooting attacks can happen in many phases.
Shooting (obviously)
Assault (Overwatch)
Movement (interceptor)
These are the obvious three.
Abilities that effect shooting are good to go at any time. Things that call out a specific phase are not.
Also with interceptor you are given permission to fire a weapon (specifically the one with interceptor). What you don't have permission for is that weapon, plus wargear.
While some wargear effects shooting, the interceptor rules do not allow for these to be used. Especially if their use is limited to a specific phase.

Those things work because they are worded that if the commander does not shoot in the shooting phase, then ALL shooting done by his unit ignored cover and rerolls.

The only thing limited to the shooting phase is the commander not shooting.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Those things work because they are worded that if the commander does not shoot in the shooting phase, then ALL shooting done by his unit ignored cover and rerolls.

The only thing limited to the shooting phase is the commander not shooting.

I am not quite sure where you stand. Are you saying they work, as in, they apply to the Interceptor shots in the movement phase and thus the Riptide has both TL and Ignores cover or no, he does not and they only work in the shooting phase?

As long as the commander does not shoot in the shooting phase, then all shooting done by his unit, in any phase, can ignore cover an reroll misses.

You're saying the duration is a full game turn?
Or the entire game?
Where does it state this duration?

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
As long as the commander does not shoot in the shooting phase, then all shooting done by his unit, in any phase, can ignore cover an reroll misses.

That is actualy factually not correct the rules forthe MSS and ccn both day only works in shooting phase and only lasts through shooting phase.

The CCN and M3S only work for the phase. The Commander would need an EWO to work for an Interceptor attack.

The curious part is the line stating the MSS and C&C node can not be used for over watch. This comes after the two limitations it puts forth: 'No shooting during the Shooting phase' and 'lasts till the end of the current phase' which is, of course, the Shooting phase. This is probably where a lot of the confusion stems from, as allows one to argue the writers intent was for these pieces of war-gear to be used outside of the Shooting Phase as long as it isn't during over-watch. Once you have that intent it is a simple matter of finding out which shooting attacks, that fall outside of a Shooting phase and over-watch obviously, you can apply this intent to.

Personally, I doubt this was the intent because it involves several logical leaps in order to arrive at the conclusion that you have permission to use the MSS or C&C node during the enemies movement phase while it only involves one to deny it:

To confirm:
First you have to conclude that interceptor allows you to use non-weapon related war-gear
Then you have to conclude that every shooting attack is enough to meet any requirement that outright states Shooting phase, a 'mini-shooting phase' if you will
Then you have to conclude that a denial to fire your weapon, on account that it isn't your proper Shooting phase, is enough to meet the limitations of 'did not shoot'

To deny:
Is it a Shooting phase?

There is nothing to suggest there is a "mini-shooting phase".
If that were true could the unit not elect to run instead of firing Overwatch?
This too is limited to the shooting phase.
There's quite a difference between a shooting attack and a shooting phase.

Also the CCN and MSSS state they can't be used at the same time.

Incorrect Kiredor, they state they can be used at the same time.

And agreed Grendel, that is why it is a leap to come to these conclusions. The only way for it to meet a 'shooting phase' requirement is if you conclude all shooting attacks suddenly turn the phase into a 'shooting phase' at least for the duration of the shots. There is nothing in the rule book, to my knowledge, which out-right states that any shooting is to be treated as if it was being done during the Shooting phase. Hence why I can not support the idea of Rip-Tides ignoring cover during interceptor, even as a Tau player it would benefit me greatly, because it is a leap at best.

Thats a reading fail... doh

If overwatch and interceptor do not function exactly as though you are in a shooting phase, then the rule that limits you to firing only 1 weapon doesn't apply either. It states that in the shooting phase you have to choose a weapon. To my knowledge, no one overwatches with a bolt pistol and a bolt gun with their marines.

Same situation. Clearly everything that affects the shooting phase also affects interceptor and overwatch.

Happens to us all, Kiredor.

Honestly with how many 'irrelevant' lines are written into these two pieces of war-gear I think Jeremy was trying his hardest to prevent arguments. They are two very unique pieces of war-gear, and more then a touch over-powered if you build your lists around them, so arguments where bound to happen. So he tried damn hard to prevent some of those arguments and to limit those ******* guys from mis-applying these two war-gear to make their armies even stronger in ways he did not intend. The clear limitation is that it can only be used during the Shooting Phase, and any attack carried out during another phase can not be said to be occurring during a Shooting Phase.

Not his fault he over looked putting an Independent Character laden with these two pieces of war-gear with another unit that had an early warning over-ride.

Kiredor wrote:
Thats a reading fail... doh

You were not the only one. I was missing the sentence that said you couldn't use them in over-watch. But Interceptor might be OK..

 BarBoBot wrote:
If overwatch and interceptor do not function exactly as though you are in a shooting phase, then the rule that limits you to firing only 1 weapon doesn't apply either. It states that in the shooting phase you have to choose a weapon. To my knowledge, no one overwatches with a bolt pistol and a bolt gun with their marines.

Same situation. Clearly everything that affects the shooting phase also affects interceptor and overwatch.

Is firing two weapons one shooting attack or two?
That's what limits you to one weapon - the fact that you make a shooting attack.

It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

Tsilber wrote:
It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

So then Monstrous Creatures, models with 2 Pistols, Attack Bikes, etc. can only fire one weapon in Overwatch?

 Happyjew wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

So then Monstrous Creatures, models with 2 Pistols, Attack Bikes, etc. can only fire one weapon in Overwatch?

Correct.

Also, specifically for interceptor, you are firing the weapon early, and cannot fire it in the following phase. I I could easily see treating interceptor as a shooting phase for that weapon/model.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Also, specifically for interceptor, you are firing the weapon early, and cannot fire it in the following phase. I I could easily see treating interceptor as a shooting phase for that weapon/model.

If that was how the rules were written, sure.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Also, specifically for interceptor, you are firing the weapon early, and cannot fire it in the following phase. I I could easily see treating interceptor as a shooting phase for that weapon/model.

There is no basis in the game to do that. Phases are distinct and important in this game. The rules state intercepted happens at the end of the opponents moving phase which is a defined term. You don't get to creat a new one to justify wanting to take advantage of a piece of Warner that clearly has an effect only in 1 defined phase.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

So then Monstrous Creatures, models with 2 Pistols, Attack Bikes, etc. can only fire one weapon in Overwatch?

Correct.

Not quite. The rule that limits you to a single weapon also only applies during the shooting phase. A Scout Biker will be able to shoot his TL-Bolters, Bolt Pistol, Shotgun, and throw his Krak grenade for good measure.

Regardless of phase, interceptor only allows the weapon in question to be fired.
There is no allowance to use wargear.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

So then Monstrous Creatures, models with 2 Pistols, Attack Bikes, etc. can only fire one weapon in Overwatch?

Correct.

Not quite. The rule that limits you to a single weapon also only applies during the shooting phase. A Scout Biker will be able to shoot his TL-Bolters, Bolt Pistol, Shotgun, and throw his Krak grenade for good measure.

I count 4 shooting attacks in that example. How many does Interceptor/Overwatch allow a model to make?

Interceptor has no limit on the number of shooting attacks that can be made. The only restrictions are that the weapon must have the Interceptor special rule, and the weapon cannot be fired in the next turn.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
It cant be done, overwatch and interceptor is not the shooting phase... Why does GW have to spell every little detail for some people.

So then Monstrous Creatures, models with 2 Pistols, Attack Bikes, etc. can only fire one weapon in Overwatch?

Correct.

"Resolving Overwatch" (p 21) tells us that an Overwatch attack is resolved "like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase)" with several explicit modifications to the rules listed.

The Gunslinger special rule and the permission for Monstrous Creatures to fire up to two weapons are explicitly restricted to the Shooting phase, so they can't be applied to Overwatch. However, the permission provided for Bikes and Jetbikes to fire one weapon per rider is not explicitly restricted to the Shooting phase. The authors might have intended the same restriction or they might not have, but either way, it's not there. It seems that Monstrous Creatures and models equipped with two pistols can only fire one weapon during Overwatch, but Attack Bikes can fire two.

Other than that, I am completely with you. It's obvious from the wording of the C&CN and the MSS that their effects apply only during the controlling player's Shooting phase.

Of course, to address the thread title, if the Riptide uses a Smart Missile System as his secondary weapon, this is always twin-linked ignores cover.

MSSS and C&C node explicitly only work in the shooting phase.

Personally I believe that Tau models can fire multiple weapons as Overwatch, and that is how it has been ruled in tournaments over here. If you want to get into a strict reading of the rules, the RAW is clearly that the restriction on shooting only one weapon only applies to the shooting phase. Thus all models can fire all weapons they have on overwatch: if you believe that they can't, then this is tantamount to agreeing that Monstrous Creatures/Battlesuits/etc CAN fire multiple weapons on overwatch. But I know this is contentious and won't be debating it here any further.

*Face-palms*

So many replies and only now does someone click that the opening poster was talking about the Smart Missile System. I think all of us here have been over-analyzing the rules way to much that we seem oblivious to something so simple. We all latched onto how the Suite and Node might of been used incorrectly that we ended up tunnel visioned to what was actually being asked. We are so used to the idea that people will try twist the rules for their own purpose that we see that as the most obvious answer to the situation then actually taking a look at the whole picture. I feel quite stupid now....

If the attack the opening poster was referring to is the Smart Missile Systems then it does indeed ignore cover, because the weapon profile grants it this ability, and is twin linked because the Riptides entry tells it is such.