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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Orks & Tyranids are the only two that come to mind.

Sisters Of Battle.

They don't count since they got their update in white dwarf after our last codex.

Thats the price you pay with a white dwarf update, you go back to the end of the line. Seriously, I had to do it for Blood Angels when it happened and it was a pain in the neck.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

Why should he? Anyone who is not a dedicated BA player or at least regularly skims BA threads doesn't have the first idea what the armies problem is. It's even worse for non-MEQ player - you basically have the same units as any other MEQ army, they work, you don't.

He was pretty much asking for an explanation what the problem is.

He was pretty much asking for an explanation what the problem is.

He was then told what the problems are and immediately dismissed them in a fairly "game-snobbish" manner ...

Although I still maintain that the situation is not as dire as some feel (imo anyway).

 Jidmah wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

Why should he? Anyone who is not a dedicated BA player or at least regularly skims BA threads doesn't have the first idea what the armies problem is. It's even worse for non-MEQ player - you basically have the same units as any other MEQ army, they work, you don't.

He was pretty much asking for an explanation what the problem is.

Well I explained what the problem was. I'm not saying we are dire but we certainly are on the backfoot. Understand that I am aware that Orks and Tyranids are also in a bad way as well. However at least Orks can make it into combat with my one or two squads of my Tau. Assault Marines have no chance. Don't know about Tyranids since I haven't played them in a while.

To the OP: Ward or Vetock. They have consistently produced the codices with the most varied and viable builds, imo. Admittedly, Vetock is new to 40k, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

KingDeath wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ummm...I hate to be that guy, but do the Blood Angels even need a new codex? At all? The 'dex doesn't really seem that dated to me...

...You're joking right?

Other armies are in much more need of a new codex than Blood Angels.

Not really. All the other codices have stood up better in 6th. But I know what the order is going to be.

 DarthOvious wrote:
Well I explained what the problem was. I'm not saying we are dire but we certainly are on the backfoot. Understand that I am aware that Orks and Tyranids are also in a bad way as well. However at least Orks can make it into combat with my one or two squads of my Tau. Assault Marines have no chance. Don't know about Tyranids since I haven't played them in a while.

I personally get what the problem is, I've witnessed the issue life on tabletop two or three times. I was just saying that not everyone knows or cares about the little details of any other random army, especially if it's one of the armies that gets repainted with the next codex by half its player base.

As for orks making it into combat - if you want to reliably win games, the only thing that ever should be aiming to be in combat is nob bikers and maybe MANz. Everything else is pretty much getting into combat to lose said combat right there, if it isn't torrented down on the way there anyways. Too much shooting for T4 no save models these days to risk crossing the board.

It might actually better to have no save and be cheap like boyz than be overcosted BA and have Eldar starcannons and shurikens on "6"s ignoring the armor they paid for.

I'd combine it into the Space Marine Codex, along with Dark Angels and Space Wolves. Grey Knights are really the only chapter unique enough to warrant an entire codex. Now with GW releasing those overpriced supplements for everything there's little reason for individual Space Marine codex's.

Ward... sure he butchered some other codex's, but the last BA codex had some range of fun to it.

Rebalance the costing (16 point assault marines etc), give us some relic items and I would be happy enough.

Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

I'm really looking forward to our Relics and the improvement of our SC's.
Another great thing is the Zaelot-rule from Chaplains, hopefully they will add that to ours too.

I want death company centurions with blood talons... just since it sounds cool.

Martel732 wrote:
Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

That was a pretty common issue in 5th in general though. It was very much a power creep edition. That's leveled more so on 6th, but there still has been some as Developers try to figure out what they're trying to do.

Martel732 wrote:
Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

It's not like Ward made that MEQ codex that beat it, That'd be kelly that overpowered Wolves.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

That was a pretty common issue in 5th in general though. It was very much a power creep edition. That's leveled more so on 6th, but there still has been some as Developers try to figure out what they're trying to do.

Sort of. I never felt the BA really trumped the IG or the Orks in that edition. Mostly, the BA were a horror for armies stuck on 3rd or 4th edition codices, but they were very manageable for armies with 5th edition codices. Mostly because 5th was the beginning of the slide for power armor lists.

Martel732 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

That was a pretty common issue in 5th in general though. It was very much a power creep edition. That's leveled more so on 6th, but there still has been some as Developers try to figure out what they're trying to do.

Sort of. I never felt the BA really trumped the IG or the Orks in that edition. Mostly, the BA were a horror for armies stuck on 3rd or 4th edition codices, but they were very manageable for armies with 5th edition codices. Mostly because 5th was the beginning of the slide for power armor lists.

IG bucked the trend a bit, and Orks are a 4th Ed book.

Orks started show problems in 5th though. Shoots Boyz bcame more valuable than Slugga/Choppa Boyz, so it's not like they weren't affected by the edition in the end.

I want death company centurions with blood talons... just since it sounds cool.

They can't JUST be DC Centurions ... to fit the tru BA spirit, they must also be psychic, flying, on motorcycles, or some combination of all three!

Or pay 15 points for a Jump Pack
Just kidding, that would be ridiculous.. No model should ever have to pay that much for a Jump Pack..

I've always liked the "2W, but they all die at the end of the game"-idea for DC.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Ward made a codex that was immediately and easily trumped by the next codex. But as I said, I'm not that picky.

That was a pretty common issue in 5th in general though. It was very much a power creep edition. That's leveled more so on 6th, but there still has been some as Developers try to figure out what they're trying to do.

Sort of. I never felt the BA really trumped the IG or the Orks in that edition. Mostly, the BA were a horror for armies stuck on 3rd or 4th edition codices, but they were very manageable for armies with 5th edition codices. Mostly because 5th was the beginning of the slide for power armor lists.

IG bucked the trend a bit, and Orks are a 4th Ed book.

Orks started show problems in 5th though. Shoots Boyz bcame more valuable than Slugga/Choppa Boyz, so it's not like they weren't affected by the edition in the end.

Orks are a 5th edition book. They came out right after Space Marines.

Or you loose points for having DC left over... kinda like the lone wolf sw thing.

Well I'm for anything that doesn't involve 20 pts models that MUST assault to be effective and are looking at 15 pt jump packs.

I'm taking that 25 maximum (inc JP) as an obvious change.

It's not something I just *want*, it's something I expect if they want me to buy anything BA-related.

Well, I'm playing a "counts as" list for now anyway. I can always stick with it if they decide to stick it to the BA again. Looking at the BA codex in retrospect, the only reason it was ever really good was because of vehicle rules from 5th, not their actual jump troops. Pathetic.

Martel732 wrote:
Well I'm for anything that doesn't involve 20 pts models that MUST assault to be effective and are looking at 15 pt jump packs.

Khorne berserkers want a wooord.

Khorne berserkers at least get counter attack as to have some tactical flexibility. And can't they be made scoring?

The Death Company is really a special kind of Veteran Space Marine, who are 18 pts in the new Codex. And they should make the hand flamer and infernus pistol the same price as their bigger cousins (5 and 10 respectively) since they trade off ranged effectiveness for the +1A. And I agree with the 3 pt Jump Pack for fairness.

Oh, and I vote for Vetock.

Martel732 wrote:
Orks are a 5th edition book. They came out right after Space Marines.

You must be confusing them with Imperial Guard.

Common mistake, non-MEQs all look the same, really.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Orks are a 5th edition book. They came out right after Space Marines.

You must be confusing them with Imperial Guard.

Common mistake, non-MEQs all look the same, really.

No, the Orks came out between the marines and the guard. I remember it quite well. There is now no army running on a 4th edition codex.

Orks are from 01-2008.
5th Edition came out 07-2008

Does that help?