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Does the Space Marine Sentry Gun Battery in IA12 - The Fall of Orpheus supercede the Hyperios Air Defence Battery in Imperial Armour Aeronautica? Does one now have to take these models in Heavy Support (without the twin-linked missile), instead of Fast Attack, or do you still have the option of fielding them with their old unit entry?

I expect the correct answer is the former, but I wanted to get clarification.

Are they the same unit?

Not...exactly. The Sentry Gun Battery also includes rules for fielding twin-linked heavy bolters, twin-linked lascannons, or a multi-melta and searchlight. You can upgrade to the Hyperios launchers, but you have to upgrade the whole unit at once, so you can't field these units together.

The other units in this listing have a "Firing Modes" rule which dictates what target they have to shoot at, but you lose this rule if you upgrade to the Hyperios launchers.

The old Aeronautica listing made no mention of these other units.

No they are different, the gun battery is HS while Hyperios is FA There are other differences a few of which you have pointed out . Carry on using the rules from Aeronautica until FW says differently.

MarkyMark wrote:
Carry on using the rules from Aeronautica until FW says differently.

FW did, by printing the IA12 rules. You'll notice that if you take the Hyperios upgrade option you have to upgrade the entire battery and convert them to the exact same unit as in IA:Aeronautica (other than the FOC slot). What FW have done is consolidate the various marine sentry guns into a single unit. Claiming that you can use the old rules because the unit has a slightly different name is like claiming you can use the old rules for the Damocles Rhino because in IA12 it has been re-named to "Damocles Command Vehicle".

Thanks. I thought that was the case.

It's usually your group/club/FLGS/tournament which decides which versions of the rules are 'legal', consult with them.

 Peregrine wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Carry on using the rules from Aeronautica until FW says differently.

FW did, by printing the IA12 rules. You'll notice that if you take the Hyperios upgrade option you have to upgrade the entire battery and convert them to the exact same unit as in IA:Aeronautica (other than the FOC slot). What FW have done is consolidate the various marine sentry guns into a single unit. Claiming that you can use the old rules because the unit has a slightly different name is like claiming you can use the old rules for the Damocles Rhino because in IA12 it has been re-named to "Damocles Command Vehicle".

Re the Damocles, they have changed the title of the model on their website to command vehicle and says rules are in IA12 so no it is not like claiming that at all.

The hyperios are not referenced to any IA book, they are called Hyperios missile launcher in IA 12 yet are called air defence in Aeronautica and on their website. When they FAQ it or change the names fine but until then they are two different units still.

FW answer:

Hi there.

The profile shown in IA 12 replaces the one shown in IA Aeronautica.
--

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

 Darog wrote:
FW answer:

Hi there.

The profile shown in IA 12 replaces the one shown in IA Aeronautica.
--

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

Well that shuts me up then! haha. Sadly though without seeing the first part of the email it acutally means nothing and even then emails arent RAW fact.

MarkyMark wrote:
Re the Damocles, they have changed the title of the model on their website to command vehicle and says rules are in IA12 so no it is not like claiming that at all.

What they call the kit on the website is irrelevant. You'll never find an IG veteran kit on GW's website, but you can obviously still take veteran squads. What matters is the rules, and by your argument about the Hyperios battery we have two separate units: the Damocles Rhino, and the Damocles Command Vehicle. It's kind of unfortunate that, like IG veterans, the Damocles Rhino doesn't have an in-production kit anymore, but just like you convert IG veterans you can convert a standard Rhino into a Damocles Rhino with a bit of work.

Or you could just admit the obvious, that both units have new rules with slightly different names.