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It's hard playing an army that's considered OP while not being TFG. Almost any unit picked is going to cause some grief, despite best intentions.

It's in the title. 2K of Tau, sans the Stilton. My question is what can I take to offset the perceived WAAC persona people often slap onto Tau players?

I'm not a fan of Kroot or Vespid, but am otherwise open to suggestions.

I'm currently looking at:

Crisis Suit Leader

12 Fire Warriors

6 Pathfinders

Which comes in at roughly 500 points after upgrades IIRC. I'm not looking for a greatly specific list, just something that non-Tau players wouldn't immediately roll their eyes at as soon as it hit the table. I've considered Railsides and Ionheads, but am kinda stuck past that.

Thanks in advance.

Fire Warriors with Ethereals/Fireblades is actually very good. You might wanna try that.

To avoid most of the cheese, avoid the triple riptide. Beyond that, the tau are really goo at one thing mass firepower. And Tau will always be a bit cheesey because of that. The counter is though you can about steamroll them in assault with basic troops.

Best way I have seen to de cheese is always use the the brb terrain setup rules. Decent LOS blocking, cover and movement restrictions really reduce the actual army cheese.

Tau will always be cheesy? In 5th I won games, if I won them, by the skin of my teeth. It was the worst army in the game just two years ago.

Fireblades are not worth their 60 point cost. Their buff only effects one squad (the one they are joined to) and they cost 10 points more then an Ethereal.

Ethereals are outstanding. Everyone within 12" gets Ld 10 and all firewarriors and drones within 12" get to fire an extra shot at half range a turn. I have even taken down fliers with drones shooting 3 shots each Twin-linked at 9".

Commanders are over priced, but the ability to make them melee machines is pretty nice. If you are going to use them this way target blob infantry units with him. He will hold his own against them for 4+ turns, and he will kill a good 8 or 9 of them a turn if they have no saves. This is great for tying up cultists that would otherwise draw shots from firewarriors needed elsewhere, and it can deny them an objective.

A lot of people like to use commanders to buff marker drone units, but it costs 93 points minimum to do this. This is a huge commitment to get BS 5 markerlights, I advise against is as you can get two Piranha for this price, and Piranha are amazing.

I strongly suggest fielding Firewarriors in groups of 9 not groups of 12. Yes they get more firepower, but without an independent character or drone (which costs 22 points minimum to give them and is a complete waist of points) they can not get to 13 which is the only way ther are getting the Ld bonus of having to kill 4 to cause moral. 8 Firewarriors means you need to lose 2 to cause moral, 9 means 3, and 12 means 3, so having 12 is an awful lot like having 9.

If your not using an Ethereal, Devilfish are your friends.

Give every vehicle that can take them a Smart Missile System.

Never deep strike suits, your throwing away points.

And pathfiders are trash, I know other people like them, but they cost 4 points a model to much for me. If you are planning on using markerlights (I advise against it) use the drone and commander strategy.

And always remember, Hammerheads are mobile cover. You can jump shoot jump from behind them.

I was going to go with squads of six Firewarriors, but Nine sounds good. Shas'Ui included of course

Out of interest, what would you give commanders to make them good at melee? And why not markerlights?

The only real CC option you have for your commanders is the Onager Gauntlet, or the Dawn Blade if you're running Farsight. You generally don't want your commanders in CC, since every round they're stuck in is another turn of wasted Plasma and Fusion shots.

8 year tau player, here. 9 years 40k. I own/play every army except 'crons, orks, GK & SoB.

I humbly suggest you dispense worrying about taking the douchiest units and list. If it's legal, then it's playable. One local store's WAAC list is another store's standard. Opinions on what is is too fluid, from one guy to the next.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
It's hard playing an army that's considered OP while not being TFG. Almost any unit picked is going to cause some grief, despite best intentions.

Yeah, given that, why worry about it?

 liquidjoshi wrote:
It's in the title. 2K of Tau, sans the Stilton. My question is what can I take to offset the perceived WAAC persona people often slap onto Tau players?

This in of itself is silly. I play more than half of 40k's armies. Except for younger persons who don't have steady pay-checks, all other players I know have multiple armies.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Which comes in at roughly 500 points after upgrades IIRC.

Now this confuses me. Are you making a 2k list or 500 points?

Anyway, 24 FWs, ethereal, and the rest suits is doable at 500 points.

Cutthroat, mean, filthy would be 6 XV8s (one the CMdr) and 12 FWs ... a few upgrades and you'll have a tremendous 500 point list.

For tau, just filling to 2k will require use of most units and a few D'fish. Care to elaborate on the 2k list layout?

Ok, because I wasn't clear earlier: What I have currently listed is the models I own, which are about 500 points. I'm asking about how I should expand into the 2000 point bracket, sorry for the confusion on that

Also, I love the DPs comics. Anyway...

For 2K I was thinking something along the (very rough) lines of:

HQ: Commander with bodyguard, possibly Farsight.

Elites: More suits, Riptide, maybe Stealth suits.

Troops: Fire Warriors, Fire Warriors and more Fire Warriors

Fast attack: Pathfinders

Heavy: Broadsides, possibly a Hammerhead. Longstrike optional.

But that's a very rough list, and nowhere near 2K. Things like Broadsides would probably be run in multiples, so 2x2 teams for example.

Personally I would go for 4x8 FW, with ethereal,

Crisis teams with double up plasmas are fantastic, in rapid fire range and with markerlights, they will melt heavy infantry, cover or not, and remove characters from the board. The only units that can really stand up to them are assault terminators and wraiths, which you should focus down with massed firepower from rifles instead

Commander with double plas, iridium armour, shield gen (yes expensive, but only instant deathed by STR10 Weaponry, and hard as nails.

Shield drones I have always found are ideal in crisis teams, I know since the new book they only have a 4+ and do cause moral checks but they keep suits alive and with the commander or shas've you should be good taking and passing those moral checks

Pathfinders are NOT trash. BS5 ingore cover on your crisis teams, fire warriors, or anything is really not to be sniffed at. Neither is being able to shoot fliers at a BS other than 1 or overwatching units at BS3. I tend to take 3 units of 6, but many people prefer two units of 8 or 6 instead, or 3x5

Remember you can buff markerlight BS with other markerlights now, so you can shoot a unit you really want dead with a team, use 2 hits to bump the other to BS5, and suddenly that unit you want dead has ~6 hits on it, hello BS5 ignore cover

for HS (and anti tank in general) I think hammerheads are hands down the best units available. 3 of them is easily doable in 1500, so 2k shouldnt be a problem. If you go ethereal + commander and 4 FW teams you have unlocked double FOC so you can take 3 and then take a skyray for AA (if you dont take an aegis line) if you are going to use it, taking the aegis with a quad gun is a decent ivestment for AA, but its tricky getting a model who is going to fire it without losing efficicency (ethereal, although a prime candidate, means you lose the 8 shots of the FW team he is attached to, if he isnt attached he's going to get focussed down and killed)

Personally I find broadsides with rail rifles are a bit lacking since the nerf, and missilesides, although great, unfortunately use up the valuable HS slots available, and with skyfire get VERY expensive for a unit that dies to 3 lascannon hits, so drones are a requirement, making them even more costly. Missilesides are also very close to the status quo of "LOLOP" that people seem to have

Also, always give hammerheads submunitions. Even if you only fire it once a game, its still worth those 5pts

At the end of the day though, you shouldnt feel bad whatever you take, tau have been "bottom tier" for a very long time, and for tau players like me who have played them since they got released in 3rd edition, its welcome to have some time in the sun. (although triple riptide is hilariously OP and really shouldn't be taken if youre looking for a "fair and non-TFG" game

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Ok, because I wasn't clear earlier: What I have currently listed is the models I own, which are about 500 points. I'm asking about how I should expand into the 2000 point bracket, sorry for the confusion on that

Also, I love the DPs comics. Anyway...

Thanks! Bob & Fred have been damned lazy about posting lately, huh?

As for acquiring a big list, I'd build up to:
a. 6 or 8 XV8s (I'd go with two battlesuit team boxes, they're a good buy)
b. 3 B-sides and the 6 MDs, too. With the HYMD. Railguns just ain't the Cat's Meow anymore.
c. three or four dozen FWs. That is total for your ownership
d. a kroot crew, with puppy
e. I used my "look out" model from a d'fish for my ethereal. Go back to the DP comic and you'll see it's T'Cha!

Here, well you'll need a couple hundred points in other models. Hammerheads, with Ion or Rail are pretty good. A Battle Force box

I've left off the Riptides as I don't own them, and oddly, I haven't jumped on the InterNet BandWagon in their praise. I have nothing to say about 'em either way.

That *ought* to flesh out to 2k.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
For 2K I was thinking something along the (very rough) lines of:
HQ: Commander with bodyguard, possibly Farsight.

Using him optimally makes for a filthy list ... which I just used at a tourney.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Elites: More suits, Riptide, maybe Stealth suits.

Troops: Fire Warriors, Fire Warriors and more Fire Warriors

Fast attack: Pathfinders

Heavy: Broadsides, possibly a Hammerhead. Longstrike optional.

All reasonable.

liquidjoshi, Bobug has a lot of good points, although I disagree with a couple.

Bobug wrote:
Personally I would go for 4x8 FW, with ethereal,

I like the gun-line too, but go 4 x 9. At nine dudes, it takes 3 casualties to cause Morale, however at 8 guys, you check Morale at two deaths. 30+ FWs with the ethereal boost is wonderful.

Bobug wrote:
Crisis teams with double up plasmas are fantastic, in rapid fire range and with markerlights, they will melt heavy infantry, cover or not, and remove characters from the board. The only units that can really stand up to them are assault terminators and wraiths, which you should focus down with massed firepower from rifles instead

Commander with double plas, iridium armour, shield gen (yes expensive, but only instant deathed by STR10 Weaponry, and hard as nails.

All good, but no Shield Gen. Use cheaper Gun Drones for ablative wounds and moar guns!

Bobug wrote:
Shield drones I have always found are ideal in crisis teams, I know since the new book they only have a 4+ and do cause moral checks but they keep suits alive and with the commander or shas've you should be good taking and passing those moral checks

I don't see the use of Shield Ds with the new book. Given that GDs are now T4, Shield Ds became obsolete. JSJ pretty much gives you Cover all the time, so the 4++ of the SD is minor to the 5++ a GD will receive in Cover.

Bobug wrote:
Pathfinders are NOT trash ... I tend to take 3 units of 6

I totally agree.

Bobug wrote:
and missilesides, although great, unfortunately use up the valuable HS slots available, and with skyfire get VERY expensive for a unit that dies to 3 lascannon hits, so drones are a requirement, making them even more costly. Missilesides are also very close to the status quo of "LOLOP" that people seem to have

I love the full load of Missile-Sides. 3 XV88s with the 6 Missile Ds are fantastic, good anti-Flier, good anti-horde, good anti-everything. Tough as nails, too.

On the Quad gun, I find the SDT with Ethereal is not bad. No wasted fire, cover for the poor FW, and with Storm of fire 3 24" sniper shots per drone it has good field cover. If you do an advanced placement of the Ageias you can stil luse that SoF to boost other FW squads.

All really helpful advice here, thanks a bunch. Shame Railsides aren't great any more, I love how they look though...

I had considered Gun line Tau, how would a Crisis Team play into that? Would they walk on or deepstrike? What about Farsight?

Double FoC would probably look something like this:

Crisis Leader, Bodyguard
Farsight
Ethereal

Crisis, Stealth and Riptide Teams

Firewarriors (as many as needed to balance the list, in groups of 9).

Pathfinders (as many as needed to balance the list - likely between 4 and 6 teams of 5 or 6)

Hammerheads, possibly with longstrike, 2X2 Broadside teams, including Railsides with VTs, possibly Missilesides too.