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So it says right on page 73 of the Tau codex that pen chips affect only the bearer but I've heard of people using it on buff commanders to grant attached units Monster Hunter or Tabk Hunter etc; what gives? Are they cheating?

the chip only effects the commander, however, due to IC rules, special rules that an IC has can transfer over to attatched units.


So, puretide chip grants pref. enemy to IC. IC attatch's to unit of broadsides, broadsides gain pref. enemy.

Does it work on a crisis bodyguard for use in a FarSun bomb?

The only way it wouldn't is if the bodyguard themselves dont count as a seperate unit from the IC.

Can the IC detatch from the bodyguard unit?

If no, then the chip doesnt effect them, if yes then it does.


at least thats my understanding of it.

Your understanding is completely wrong.

The correct answer is that those two USRs specifically state that if any model in the unit (which includes attached ICs) has the USR the whole unit gets the benefits.

Hajj; so it's in the the BRB under "Monster Hunter" etc. Exalted!

One thing to keep in mind about the Puretide Engram Chip and it's use in a far-sight bomb: It is a 'at the start of the movement phase' special rule. Page 124, I believe as I am trying to go from memory while I am at work but it is one of the last pages in the reserve section, puts restrictions on when a special rule can be used by models coming in from reserves. This would greatly decrease the effectiveness of a Puretide Engram Chip when included in a deep striking unit.

It doesn't state you have to be on the table to use it, its just that when you're off the table it has no effect

I don't know why being on the table matters in this case. The Puretide Engram Chip starts with the following 'At the start of the bearer's Movement phase' creating a timing limitation. This timing limitation is then further mentioned on page 125 of the basic rule book. Within that mention they are creating further limitations that will prevent special rule that contains these words from being evoked on the turn that a unit comes in from reserves. For the farsight bomb it means they need to be on the table for at least a turn before the chip can be activated thanks to the restriction on page 125.

It's all irrelevant to me. I'll never be arriving from reserves. I'm allying Tigurius, deploying, then gate-ing wherever I need to be. Boom.

As long as we're clear that a Penchip on a Crisis bodyguard affects the whole unit, I'm golden. Exaltation all around!

Tiggy doesn't get GoI standard anymore, I assume you'll try to get it from Telekinesis?

Lucarikx

"Try?" He rerolls all his choices; and if you ever get a single double, you choose from the list. I'm not a math guy, so I can't give you statistics but I'm guessing it's close to 90% likely he'll get it.

You re-roll doubles Its silly, it should be like Fantasy, but thats how it is.

Lucarikx

 The Shrike wrote:
"Try?" He rerolls all his choices; and if you ever get a single double, you choose from the list. I'm not a math guy, so I can't give you statistics but I'm guessing it's close to 90% likely he'll get it.

The probability of him getting it is 75% assuming 3 rolls, all on Telekenisis, re-roll non-gates and never swap for primaris.

It's more than 75% though because if you roll a double on either of the first two rolls, you get to pick right? Am I making this up?

I.E.: I roll a 1 for the first roll and keep it. Second roll I get another 1. I choose Gate.


.....Right?

 The Shrike wrote:
It's more than 75% though because if you roll a double on either of the first two rolls, you get to pick right? Am I making this up?

I.E.: I roll a 1 for the first roll and keep it. Second roll I get another 1. I choose Gate.


.....Right?

You're making it up. From Fantasy probably. No such rule exists in 40K. If you double up, you roll again and keep going until you don't double up.

JinxDragon wrote:
I don't know why being on the table matters in this case. The Puretide Engram Chip starts with the following 'At the start of the bearer's Movement phase' creating a timing limitation. This timing limitation is then further mentioned on page 125 of the basic rule book. Within that mention they are creating further limitations that will prevent special rule that contains these words from being evoked on the turn that a unit comes in from reserves. For the farsight bomb it means they need to be on the table for at least a turn before the chip can be activated thanks to the restriction on page 125.

"Start of the turn" is not the same as "start of bearer's movement phase". Same way that i can choose to move other units before deciding to nova charge a riptide and then moving it. PEN doesnt say "start of movement phase" which is inclusive of the entire army, in which i can then agree that it cannot be used.

 The Shrike wrote:
So it says right on page 73 of the Tau codex that pen chips affect only the bearer but I've heard of people using it on buff commanders to grant attached units Monster Hunter or Tabk Hunter etc; what gives? Are they cheating?

The rules for Tank Hunter, Monster Hunter, etc state that only one model in the unit needs to have that rule to confer it to the rest of the unit. So he is correct in doing so. I play Tau and wondered the same thing myself until I found out how it worked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:
Does it work on a crisis bodyguard for use in a FarSun bomb?

Yes, this is a pretty common tactic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eihnlazer wrote:
The only way it wouldn't is if the bodyguard themselves dont count as a seperate unit from the IC.

Can the IC detatch from the bodyguard unit?

If no, then the chip doesnt effect them, if yes then it does.


at least thats my understanding of it.

With Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter only one model in the unit needs to have the rule and then the unit gains the benefit. So in essence, once the model with the chip dies, then the unit stops benefitting from those two particular rules. I think the wording for Counter Attack is different and only the model gets it in that case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:
One thing to keep in mind about the Puretide Engram Chip and it's use in a far-sight bomb: It is a 'at the start of the movement phase' special rule. Page 124, I believe as I am trying to go from memory while I am at work but it is one of the last pages in the reserve section, puts restrictions on when a special rule can be used by models coming in from reserves. This would greatly decrease the effectiveness of a Puretide Engram Chip when included in a deep striking unit.

I thought that reserves arrived before the start of the movement phase. Is it not, roll reserves first, place reserves and then movement?

There is no "before the start of the movement phase".
(That would be your opponents assault phase)

 grendel083 wrote:
There is no "before the start of the movement phase".
(That would be your opponents assault phase)

Interesting, so can a puretide chip be used on the turn in which it deepstrikes in? Also since I play apocalypse and I know when my Farsight Bomb comes in, can I use it the turn when that happens since I can declare what I will use with the puretide chip? Even then since deepstriking must start at the beggining of the movement phase then what order do I follow in this instance? Do I deepstrike and then declare the chip?

 DarthOvious wrote:
Interesting, so can a puretide chip be used on the turn in which it deepstrikes in?

I can't think of anything that would prevent it.
Psychic powers have a specific restriction, as long as the Puretide doesn't you're good to go.

Shock_at, as much as I hate pulling out this FAQ because of it's gross misuse it is core to the problem at hand,

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

Both of the terms 'start of the turn' and 'start of the movement phase' relate to the same point in the time line, as established by the basic rule book FAQ's, so any rule that effects this time line has to be valid for both terminologies in order to function. This is important as the rules in one section of the basic rule book, reserves and including page 125, use one term while the rest of the book uses another. This wouldn't of been much of a problem if it wasn't for page 125 being a limitation that effects rules outside of this section of the book; making it so this limitation is either a complete waste of ink or the terms are intended to be interchangeable as everything else related to them is interchangeable.

Therefore any special rule that has the 'start of the movement phase' terminology is bound by the page 125 limitations and can not be evoked on the turn you come in from reserves.

 grendel083 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Interesting, so can a puretide chip be used on the turn in which it deepstrikes in?

I can't think of anything that would prevent it.
Psychic powers have a specific restriction, as long as the Puretide doesn't you're good to go.

I can. Page 125, in bold top left.

Chrysis wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Interesting, so can a puretide chip be used on the turn in which it deepstrikes in?

I can't think of anything that would prevent it.
Psychic powers have a specific restriction, as long as the Puretide doesn't you're good to go.

I can. Page 125, in bold top left.

Ah so there is, my mistake. Thanks.

JinxDragon wrote:
Shock_at, as much as I hate pulling out this FAQ because of it's gross misuse it is core to the problem at hand,

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

Both of the terms 'start of the turn' and 'start of the movement phase' relate to the same point in the time line, as established by the basic rule book FAQ's, so any rule that effects this time line has to be valid for both terminologies in order to function. This is important as the rules in one section of the basic rule book, reserves and including page 125, use one term while the rest of the book uses another. This wouldn't of been much of a problem if it wasn't for page 125 being a limitation that effects rules outside of this section of the book; making it so this limitation is either a complete waste of ink or the terms are intended to be interchangeable as everything else related to them is interchangeable.

Therefore any special rule that has the 'start of the movement phase' terminology is bound by the page 125 limitations and can not be evoked on the turn you come in from reserves.

I am having difficulty understanding this. You quote a FAQ which confirms that I can use the Puretide Chip but then afterwards you tell me I can't. The FAQ you cited says that I get to decide what order to declare things. So I deepstrike in with Farsight and then I declare I am using the PEN before doing my movement.

 DarthOvious wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Shock_at, as much as I hate pulling out this FAQ because of it's gross misuse it is core to the problem at hand,

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

Both of the terms 'start of the turn' and 'start of the movement phase' relate to the same point in the time line, as established by the basic rule book FAQ's, so any rule that effects this time line has to be valid for both terminologies in order to function. This is important as the rules in one section of the basic rule book, reserves and including page 125, use one term while the rest of the book uses another. This wouldn't of been much of a problem if it wasn't for page 125 being a limitation that effects rules outside of this section of the book; making it so this limitation is either a complete waste of ink or the terms are intended to be interchangeable as everything else related to them is interchangeable.

Therefore any special rule that has the 'start of the movement phase' terminology is bound by the page 125 limitations and can not be evoked on the turn you come in from reserves.

I am having difficulty understanding this. You quote a FAQ which confirms that I can use the Puretide Chip but then afterwards you tell me I can't. The FAQ you cited says that I get to decide what order to declare things. So I deepstrike in with Farsight and then I declare I am using the PEN before doing my movement.

No. The FAQ says they happen at the same time. That time is the beginning of the turn. Page 125 says you can't use things that must be used at the beginning of the turn on the turn you enter from reserves. The order of events is irrelevant because using the ability is prohibited.

Chrysis wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Shock_at, as much as I hate pulling out this FAQ because of it's gross misuse it is core to the problem at hand,

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

Both of the terms 'start of the turn' and 'start of the movement phase' relate to the same point in the time line, as established by the basic rule book FAQ's, so any rule that effects this time line has to be valid for both terminologies in order to function. This is important as the rules in one section of the basic rule book, reserves and including page 125, use one term while the rest of the book uses another. This wouldn't of been much of a problem if it wasn't for page 125 being a limitation that effects rules outside of this section of the book; making it so this limitation is either a complete waste of ink or the terms are intended to be interchangeable as everything else related to them is interchangeable.

Therefore any special rule that has the 'start of the movement phase' terminology is bound by the page 125 limitations and can not be evoked on the turn you come in from reserves.

I am having difficulty understanding this. You quote a FAQ which confirms that I can use the Puretide Chip but then afterwards you tell me I can't. The FAQ you cited says that I get to decide what order to declare things. So I deepstrike in with Farsight and then I declare I am using the PEN before doing my movement.

No. The FAQ says they happen at the same time. That time is the beginning of the turn. Page 125 says you can't use things that must be used at the beginning of the turn on the turn you enter from reserves. The order of events is irrelevant because using the ability is prohibited.

Yes but it confirms that both can be done although they happen at the same time.

And then you read page 125 which says it can't be done the turn you deep strike.

Seriously - why are you ignoring page 125?

the FAQ specifically applies to blessings, it doesnt say that it is talking about all "start of bearer's movement phase".

Why would there be two different phrases ("start of turn" and "start of bearer's movement phase") if their intention was that they mean exactly the same thing?

RAI maybe, but the FAQ RAW talks specifically only about blessings. and pg 125 specifically only targets "start of turn" and not movement phase.

The Chip also doesn't give you the option to use it you HAVE to use it you just get to choose what it does.