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Here is the wording of the 'Lance' special rule.

Weapons with the lance special rule
count vehicle Armour values hlgher
than 12 as 12


Does this work for buildings to, why or why not?

What do buildings count as for shooting attacks?

I'm going to say not with that wording. The inclusion of 'vehicle' there seems intentional. As it stands building armor values and vehicle armor values are different things.

The building counts as a vehicle for most things, including lance.

Buildings count as Vehicles when you're shooting at them.

Pg. 93 from BRB, bold text: "Units may shoot at or charge an occupied building just as if it was a vehicle."

This means that as long as the building is occupied, it uses the same rules for transport vehicles (pg. 92). Since you treat the building as a vehicle when you shoot at it, it is affected by Lancing weapons.

rigeld2 wrote:
What do buildings count as for shooting attacks?

buildings. you can shoot at a building as if it were a vehicle, but that does not mean it counts as as vehicle.

 DJGietzen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
What do buildings count as for shooting attacks?

buildings. you can shoot at a building as if it were a vehicle, but that does not mean it counts as as vehicle.

Incorrect. If you treat it as anything but a vehicle you're not shooting at it as if it were a vehicle.

Here is another wrinkle in this. I'm asking specifically about 'Lance' interacting with a Vengeance Weapons Battery, which is an unoccupied Building that can be targeted with enemy attacks.

I'm inclined to say "Yes", 'Lance' works on buildings. But, I wanted to get the consensus.

The building rules are some of the worse written in a rule book that is well known for it's poor writing, with some Frequently Asked Questions that seem designed just to make things worse. All we know for certain is that buildings use certain aspects of vehicles, which means only certain vehicle related rules can be applied to building. We are then given some examples of situations where rules could be applied, including a few where certain vehicle rules clearly can not be applied, but we are left with an obvious problem. These are still nothing more then examples, they do not include every situation in which a rule might or might not be applied, and certain rules are left in the 'gray zone' because the rule only tells us certain rules apply without a exclusive list as to what can and can not apply.

So that leaves the question: Is lance a special rule which can be applied to buildings?

My view on the matter is simply Yes. We are told that certain vehicle rules can be applied, technically giving us permission to apply all rules unless they are specifically denied. Applying the rule itself does not suddenly break any of the building rules, vehicle rules or any other rule related to the situation. It is also a rule that comes into play if your shooting at a vehicle, which is a sub-set of rules addressed by the building rules. These three things are more then enough for me to firmly believe that the rule is on the 'approved' list and not on the 'denied' list.

 DJGietzen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
What do buildings count as for shooting attacks?

buildings. you can shoot at a building as if it were a vehicle, but that does not mean it counts as as vehicle.

Your right. If I were counting vehicles on the battlefield I would not count the buildings, even if I was making a shooting attack at the time. I'm still going to shoot at it 'as if' it were a vehicle though and take all rules into consideration as such for all intents and purposes regarding said attack.

Given the extremely small percentage of armies that actually use the Lance USR, any consensus on the internet is bias, at best. If SM used Lance weapons, there'd be quite a few less dissenters on them affecting buildings. I've brought my DE to many GTs, and have never had anybody claim my lance weapons didn't affect buildings' AV.

However, purely in terms of RAW... yes, Lance weapons don't drop the AV on a building. Its pretty cut and dry in the USR wording.

Just my 2 cents.

 Cortez667 wrote:
Given the extremely small percentage of armies that actually use the Lance USR, any consensus on the internet is bias, at best. If SM used Lance weapons, there'd be quite a few less dissenters on them affecting buildings. I've brought my DE to many GTs, and have never had anybody claim my lance weapons didn't affect buildings' AV.

The same goes for pretty much any rule that affects armour penetration, i.e. Armour Bane, (Large) Blast, Haywire, Melta, Rending, Sniper, Strafing Run, Tank Hunters and Vector Strike. Claiming all these don't work against buildings just breaks the game. For example, explain how you would resolve Blast weapons against buildings if you do not consider them vehicles? They would be completely immune to blast weapons unless you do.

 Redemption wrote:

 Cortez667 wrote:
Given the extremely small percentage of armies that actually use the Lance USR, any consensus on the internet is bias, at best. If SM used Lance weapons, there'd be quite a few less dissenters on them affecting buildings. I've brought my DE to many GTs, and have never had anybody claim my lance weapons didn't affect buildings' AV.

The same goes for pretty much any rule that affects armour penetration, i.e. Armour Bane, (Large) Blast, Haywire, Melta, Rending, Sniper, Strafing Run, Tank Hunters and Vector Strike. Claiming all these don't work against buildings just breaks the game. For example, explain how you would resolve Blast weapons against buildings if you do not consider them vehicles? They would be completely immune to blast weapons unless you do.

I will point out that Armor Bane makes a special note to exclude non-vehicle models from its effect.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
I will point out that Armor Bane makes a special note to exclude non-vehicle models from its effect.

Yes, all those special rules either specifically mention vehicles or exclude non-vehicles, which was exactly my point. People seem to pick at random when buildings count as a vehicle or not for shooting and assaulting purposes. It either counts that way for all purposes or none of them, and seeing as the latter basically makes buildings immune to damage it seems like a bad stance to take.