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Their HQ entries have different icons to denote chapters, so not the same, unless colour blind, in which case terribly sorry as that was not meant as an insult. Pedro has a red fist icon and Lysander has a black fist icon, ergo not they are not same.

 BrookM wrote:
Their HQ entries have different icons to denote chapters, so not the same, unless colour blind, in which case terribly sorry as that was not meant as an insult. Pedro has a red fist icon and Lysander has a black fist icon, ergo not they are not same.

...

No, I'm not colour blind. But what has the art to do with the army selection? It is the Chapter Tactics that matter.

It's a supplemental codex about Imperial Fists, not Crimson Fists, same tactics or not, they are not the same. Pedro can only join such a supplement list if he is an ally, he cannot be taken in the primary detachment because he is NOT A BANANA.



I'm going to bed, maybe this was all a dream.

 BrookM wrote:
It's a supplemental codex about Imperial Fists, not Crimson Fists, same tactics or not, they are not the same. Pedro can only join such a supplement list if he is an ally, he cannot be taken in the primary detachment because he is NOT A BANANA.

We don't know whether this is purely IF book, or IF and successors book (BT presumably excluded in any case.) I hope it is the latter, I'm afraid it is the former. And in the main marine codex, IF and CF are the same, game-wise they're the same army, just like Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers are the same army or like Dark Angels and Angels of Absolution are the same army.

So if this book is solely about the 3rd company does that mean there will be 10 supplements per Chapter?

Perhaps this is only being released to allow Space Marines to self ally?

"Sentinels of Terra"?

Is that really something they want to highlight on their resume? I mean the one and only time they were called on to defend Terra they pretty much got their butts kicked, nearly got the Emperor killed and had to be bailed out by the Ultramarines.

I mean really, of all the features to highlight...


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 Absolutionis wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I like the Imperial fists, but why do they need a supplement? From what I can tell, they're just a standard codex chapter with a distinguished history. They don't have hairy sideburns, or suck blood, or jet black skin, or cruise around on motorbikes all day, or turn traitor when the emperor tells them to start fighting and stop building temples, etc etc

What's weird is that Black templars are an Imperial Fists successor, but their modus is drastically different than their founding chapter. "Sentinels of Terra" may be trying to distinguish this as including Imperials Fists and specific successors, but excluding Templars.

The templars were founded when all the cool Imperial Fists got tired of Rogal Dorn's so-called leadership (I'll lead my men to be slaughtered in a trap! because of um... testing them yeah!) and formed their own darn chapter with Blackjack and Hookers.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
They don't have hairy sideburns, or suck blood, or jet black skin, or cruise around on motorbikes all day

Considering one of their main recruiting worlds is Necromunda, they probably do all the above and more on weekends..

Well, this makes more sense than an Ultramarines supplement. I actually agree with them doing supplements this way instead of Supplement: Imperial Fists, if they aren't going to use supplements for odd chapters like Black Dragons or Cacharodons. After all, what would be the point of including Imperial Fist chapter tactics in Codex: Space Marines, if you needed a supplement to play the "true" Imperial Fists? Having a supplement instead be about a specialized company of Imperial Fists makes more sense than that.

....but it'd still be even more sensible IMHO to use supplements on lesser known chapters instead. Ah well.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
"Sentinels of Terra"?

Is that really something they want to highlight on their resume? I mean the one and only time they were called on to defend Terra they pretty much got their butts kicked, nearly got the Emperor killed and had to be bailed out by the Ultramarines.

I mean really, of all the features to highlight..

That's not how fluff history remembers it. The Imperial Fists are so honored for their defense of Terra that they have Terra officially listed as their home world. Yes, they actualy are a fleet based chapter that recruits from many different worlds, but the official records of the Imperium of Man lists their home world as Terra.

That's a RIDICULOUSLY huge honor for what should be obvious reasons. No matter how you personally view the battle of Terra, the Imperium obviously views the Imperial Fists' participation as such a huge deal that they basically labelled Terra as owned by them as thanks for that.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
One thing about that scenario worries me: they specifically exclude Lysander and Garadon (probably a new IF character); however, no such restriction exist regarding Pedro Kantor. So my horrible suspicion is that somehow contexts of this book are not usable with him to begin with, and thus such restriction was unnecessary.

It's likely Garadon might just be a scenario specific character, like some of those back in Farsight and Iyanden.

Garadon is mentioned in Soul-Hunter...as a Night Lord bodyguard to The Exalted. I knew that name was familiar! (probably not related)

 RandyMcStab wrote:
So if this book is solely about the 3rd company does that mean there will be 10 supplements per Chapter?

I'd wager we'll see Codex: Ultramarines 4th squad of 8th Company before we see Codex: Thousand Sons.

So this really is only about one company! Mind-boggling. Now I'm even more worried about all sorts of silly restrictions.

 Oaka wrote:
Perhaps this is only being released to allow Space Marines to self ally?

They can already self ally with their own book.

He probably means ally within same chapter tactics. This is all pretty confusing, are you going to pay 35$ to get 3 relics with the word Dorn in them?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The templars were founded when all the cool Imperial Fists got tired of Rogal Dorn's so-called leadership (I'll lead my men to be slaughtered in a trap! because of um... testing them yeah!) and formed their own darn chapter with Blackjack and Hookers.

Well, damn, I like your interpretation of the Black Templar fluff a lot more than the standard one. While we're at it, it's not that the BTs dislike psykers because of the warp, or Chaos, or some obscure meeting in a cave somewhere... they're just jocks and can't be bothered with all that nerdy mind-powers stuff.

Maybe we will finally see what Excoriators look like?

And Devastators as troops would be hilariously awesome.

My only worry is with it being the first Supplement of the SM Codex that it'll be as 'meh' as the Iyanden book was. They'll play it safe, it'll have some interesting fluff choices for army that maintains a power level equal to the Codex...so there will be little reason to buy the Supplement for most players.

That aside, I'll buy it for those fluff reasons. I really do hope for some more siege feel to the army...like squadroned Vindicators or perhaps the ability to make your Devastator's Slow and Purposeful temporarily.

Imperial Fists are the most adherent to the Codex Astartes after Ultramarines, so I'm curious what they'll do to be different. That scenario could be interesting, but that's because I just really want my Iron Warriors to have a field day.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
They don't have hairy sideburns, or suck blood, or jet black skin, or cruise around on motorbikes all day

Considering one of their main recruiting worlds is Necromunda, they probably do all the above and more on weekends..

The imperium doesn't do weekends! You work a 23 hour day, seven days a week!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Anyone think there might be Crimson Fists in here too?

God I hope so....

Then we can get more fluff about how the Fists are Space Mexicans. Did you know that Rynns world is an agri-planet.

Thats right. The chapter with guys named Pedro is on an entire planet of Strawberry Farms.

I make no apology for going slightly OT, but Black Templars be damned! Any time or effort wasted on BT, is time wasted that could have been spent on Brettonians.

Back OT: Imperial fists are known to wear yellow armour!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I make no apology for going slightly OT, but Black Templars be damned! Any time or effort wasted on BT, is time wasted that could have been spent on Brettonians.

Back OT: Imperial fists are known to wear yellow armour!

What chapter do you like? They can go to hell too. Some of us like the Black Templars, and a 40k release does not affect Fantasy releases. Yell at Dark Elves if that really matters.

On topic, I'd love to see what gets put into this supplement. I may buy it, if I like what comes out of news and rumors on it.

 BrookM wrote:
It's a supplemental codex about Imperial Fists, not Crimson Fists, same tactics or not, they are not the same. Pedro can only join such a supplement list if he is an ally, he cannot be taken in the primary detachment because he is NOT A BANANA.



I'm going to bed, maybe this was all a dream.

This is probably Wrong. Chapter Tactics are Chapter tactics and its completely legal to take a "Counts as Lysander" alongside Pedro... you just have to pick which is the warlord. It would be extremely out of step with the rest of the game if they released a supplement and said "These rules apply to any Chapter Tactics Imperial Fists army (Except Crimson Fists because f*** that strawberry picking son of *****)"

Yeah I don't understand the arguments about Pedro and Lysander. It's fairly clear that both are the same army for game purposes.

The only difference is Pedro has a Crimson Fist ability if he's in charge, and Lysander has an Imperial Fist ability if he's in charge.

Because it's a scenario.

Put the butthurt cannons away!!!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I like the Imperial fists, but why do they need a supplement?

Because GW wants another $50 from every IF player (and some that aren't)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I like the Imperial fists, but why do they need a supplement? From what I can tell, they're just a standard codex chapter with a distinguished history. They don't have hairy sideburns, or suck blood, or jet black skin, or cruise around on motorbikes all day, or turn traitor when the emperor tells them to start fighting and stop building temples, etc etc

They need a supplement about as much as any other marine chapter does. That is, not at all.

 Grundz wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I like the Imperial fists, but why do they need a supplement?

Because GW wants another $50 from every IF player (and some that aren't)

And they saw how well the limited edition IF codex sold, now you need a book with IF content in it and he same pictures used again.

One member of my local forum said that captain garadon will make devastators and centurion devastators score (not become troops) which is still pretty sweet. He will also allow you to take ironclads as heavy in addition to elites, not that anyone has space in heavy support anyways. I'm not sure what is source was though, so take this with a grain of salt.

$50 for a few pages of rules is ridiculous. I can find pictures of well painted models all over the internet and if your buying this for fluff you are waaaaaayyyyyyyyy over paying. At most it has like 20-30 pages of fluff? A 300 page novel goes for like $10 these days (I have no idea how much GW charges for their novels but I bet they're way over priced as well). Who's buying this stuff? Someone must be because they keep churning this crap out.