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Hi I would like some feedback on these blood angels army lists please
They are designed with magnetic jump packs in mind.

Jump List

155 - Reclusiarch (jump pack)
370 - Death Company (8) 2x Thunder Hammer, 2x Power Axe (jump packs)

225 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Sword
225 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Sword

975- Total, 25 points left over...

Armoured List

130 - Reclusiarch
130 - Death Company (5) 2x Power Axe
055 - Razorback + twin linked assault cannon

125 - Assault Squad (5) 1x Meltagun, Power Sword
055 - Razorback + lascannon and twin linked plasma gun

125 - Assault Squad (5) 1x Meltagun, Power Sword
055 - Razorback + lascannon and twin linked plasma gun

110 - Assault Squad (5) 1x Meltagun
055 - Razorback + twin linked lascannon

110 - Assault Squad (5) 1x Meltagun
055 - Razorback + twin linked lascannon

1005 - Total (perfect)

So those are my two lists that I can run with these magnetised models.
What do you think? I'd like feedback on both please and your opinion on their effectiveness on the tabletop
Thanks

Both are very nice lists. You thought about asking a mate to take one and play them off against each other?
How about dropping the thunder hammers down to powerfists so you can afford another jp dc member in the first list?

I disagree that both lists are good IMHO. I go by a few rules when making armys and I don't feel that this list lives up to them lol.

First list, jump DC are WAY to many pts. If you are taking them I suggest a rhino or a DP. I will say that the best way to use them, imho, is to take a pod with 6 DC with all bolters, 2 with power fist, and a jump chaplin or libby in there to make their charge range better next turn.

I would drop power swords in favor of melta bombs and a pistol of some kind to kill tanks. You also lack a lot of anti infantry in this list. Maybe make a flamer in each squad to help with killing dudes.

Second list, I like this one better then the first. As said I would switch DC to DP. Anything that is moving up fast in a razor should have a assault cannon on the tank and melta/flamer on the dudes. Any squads you want to hang back and hold objectives I would give the LC to the tank and plasma to dudes. Power swords again are a waist instead of melta bombs. And you need more flamers in your lists by far. Maybe you aren't crawling in xenos where every you live (which if that's the case let me know so I can pack my bags and move in) but if you are, you need that flamer to kill their babies.

Oh I never said it was the most competitive, but dc are always fun to play! Its definitely fluffy for BA. So i would say it is a nice list. But yes they are overly expensive with jps.
If you want to go competetive, what theblessing says is spot on. I just dont like single units of dc in pods or rhinos as an enemy with any sense will shoot them up then charge them, seeing as dc NEED the charge.
The only other thing I would say is that you DO have anti infantry in droves. Dc and even your assault squads will butcher horde on the charge IF you haven't suffered too many casualties getting there.


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If you want to make the first list more competitive, drop the powerswords down to mbs as theblessing suggests, change the reclusiarch to a lib with either presience or blood rage, take the power axes off the death co, drop the thunderhammers down to powerfists. That gives you 115points for a baal to distract your enemies firepower. Furthermore, if you drop 1 mb and 2 dc you can afford a priest with jp.

Hmmm, ok thanks for the in depth replies, lots of suggestions there.

Back in the day when I decided to get into warhammer the list I had was:

125 - Librarian (Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage) Jump Pack
235 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Fist

075 - Sanguinary Priest - Jump Pack
235 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Fist

165 - Vindicator (1) Demolisher Cannon, 2x Stormbolter, Siege Shield
165 - Vindicator (1) Demolisher Cannon, 2x Stormbolter, Siege Shield

How does this compare to the original lists?

I would usually be playing against other space marines at my flgs.

If running vindis be VERY careful that you don't shoot anywhere near your assault squads. What vindis are excellent at is distracting the enemies heavy firepower away from your assault units.
Another way to go if you face non termi marines is drop the vindis (i do love them though), and drop the fists down to swords/axes, then you can afford 3 baals with flamestorms. Far more precise than vindis and can slaughter many marines turn 1 with a surprise attack via scout move, or, if going 2nd can outflank their glorious flame, they are however more subceptible to melta and assault for obvious reasons. Doing this leaves you 5pts spare to throw in mbs somewhere.


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P.s. i own 6 baals and 3 vindis. Opponents focus on vindis far more so baals usually end up doing far more damage!

Ok thanks, I think I've found my preferred tactic with jump pack infantry and support vehicles.

Would I be better off going for the three Baal Predators then when I increase the points cap including three heavy support predators?

Also swords or axes for power weapons?

Thanks

I forgot to say, nice list at 1k though!


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Swords or axes depends on your meta.
I prefer axes. Especially on units where they cant be challenged out (ba has these in droves). I would say go for the 3 baals, thenif increasing the points cap id go for ravens or vindis (and defo more troops). I have a pred annihilator and a destructor yet neither is as effective as a vindi for drawing fire or a raven for destroying targets. Both see little use. And some will say go for a 4ml armed dev squad, from my own personal experiances - dont! They just always end up being utterly mediocre!


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On a side note: if you ever run 3 vindis it makes sang guard actually viable, as the vindis will be taking up the firepower that usually makes the guard go squish, esp if you discourage the enemy with a shield of sanguinius.

Thanks, I like the look of Axes more than swords and fists plus I found that swords weren't strong enough in the challenge. The only issue is they are initiative one....

Can you list a few units which they can't be challenge out please, i've had a mind blank. (The thing a don't like in 6th is the challenges)

Baal's, Pred's and raven's look the way to go for support.

3 baals, 2 preds, 1 raven? (with 3 assault squads, 2 priests and 1 librarian)?

Thanks

Yeh sounds solid and maneuverable!
Ok heres a list off the top of my head:
Death company,
Sanguinary guard,
Honour guard,
Vanguard veterans
And technically an assault squad if joined with libby and priest with the same weapon, since they can only challenge 1 out, deny the challenge to save the sarge and then you are still hitting with at least 2 power axes (or fists if you have the points).
And there is the obvious fists or hammers in termi squads but that applies to all marines.
Thats at least 2 if not 3 types of units more than a normal marine dex can do!


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1 change... i would drop at least 1 pred and go dual raven. I really cannot stress enough how worth their points ravens are!


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The best model for points cost in the dex is corbulo imo. But you may struggle as much as I do trying to fit him into a fast list. Raven deployed termis and sterguard drops are the only effective way ive found with my fast mech/jump lists. And then im only taking them so corbulo is actually doing something. It grates me that he doesnt have a jump pack!

Haha great, lots of options.

Before I read your post with the dual raven I came up with this which fits into 1850 points exactly:

125 - Librarian
225 - Assault

075 - Priest
225 - Assault

075 - Priest
225 - Assault

155 - Baal (Assault cannon, heavy bolters, stormbolter)
155 - Baal (Assault cannon, heavy bolters, stormbolter)
155 - Baal (Assault cannon, heavy bolters, stormbolter)

145 - Pred (Autocannon, Lascannons, stormbolter)
145 - Pred (Autocannon, Lascannons, stormbolter)
145 - Pred (Autocannon, Lascannons, stormbolter)

that would mean the entire army would start on the field rather than two ravens in reserve. However the ravens would provide a lot more options and even transport if nessessary so I agree two would be much better than one.

Although what do you think of the list above? Thanks

I think thats a nice list. Im guessing the assault squads have power axe and 2 melta for 225? Means you will have the option of combat squadding them for 3 AT and 3 melee squads. Or any combination of 10s and 5s.
Id drop the storm bolters, esp on the heavy preds as they wont want to be engaging the same targets as las and autos. If you drop all 6 and a power axe you can afford a sniper scout squad to sit on a home objective. I guarentee it will only feel like you are dropping the weapon for the squad as storm bolters dont really add much. Esp if moving 12".

Ok thanks so dropping the stormbolters gives 60 points, instead of a scout squad what about power weapons on the priests and then 30 left over for something? (or power fists with 10 points left?)

Would the scouts be vital in 6th edition games?

Yes the assault squads have 2x meltagun, power axe

How prominent are weapon destroyed rolls and would stormbolters "save" the other weapons?

Thanks

Thats actually a really good shout! You can then choose to deny a challenge and still have a power axe hitting. OR with 30 points to spare upgrade 2 axes in one squad (priest and sarge) to fists for st10 on the charge and upgrade the sarge with the lib to a fist too. If you run the libby with sword of sanguinius and get BOTH these units to charge a nasty looking mc, the enemy will challenge out the libby (for 4 st10 attacks), leaving you with 9 st10 attacks left to hit. Thats nasty!


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IF you get weapon destroyed the storm bolters would have a 25% chance of being the weapon destroyed. Not worth 10pts.


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I may ask a mate if i can proxy 1 of my preds to have auto-las loadouts and to proxy one of my baals to be the same. Then I could try your list out myself.
My current preds are a tri-las, auto-las, assault-hb, 2 flamestorm-heavy flame, flamestorm-hb and 2 naked flamestorms. Usually run all the flamestorms as naked flamestorms though when running them all. They work exceptionally well for 115pts and force the enemy to deal with them taking pressure off my assault troops.


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Although mass assault-hbs works very well too.

Ok great thanks, it would be amazing if you could have a go with this type of army.

I'll post an updated list on here in the next half an hour for any final suggestions you may have, thanks so much.

No probs :-).

125 - Librarian (Jump Pack) Force Axe
225 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Axe

090 - Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack) Power Axe
225 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Axe

090 - Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack) Power Axe
225 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Axe

145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters

135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons
135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons
135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons

1820 - That would allow minor changes depending on the opponent, (meltabombs, dozer blades etc...)

Two things i'm not sure on is what force weapon the librarian should have (force axe?) and what power weapon should the sanguinary priests have (swords or axes?) the priests could also have a power fists? (1840 points). Oh and what would you recommend for the librarian powers?

Thanks








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Right here we go, just a slight change: (note the power fists)

125 - Librarian (Jump Pack) Force Axe
235 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Fist

090 - Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack) Power Axe
235 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Fist

090 - Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack) Power Axe
235 - Assault Squad (10) 2x Meltagun, Power Fist

145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters
145 - Baal Predator - Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters

135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons
135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons
135 - Heavy Predator - Autocannon, Lascannons

1850 points exactly! With two power weapons per squad for challenges, power axe and power fist.

What do you think? Thanks


.

Solid list mate. Looks fun to play any have to copy it. As for Libby powers. I say shield of sanguine/ blood lance Imo.

Thanks. Yeah I was thinking shield of sanguinius for sure, but I might have a play with the second one. As far as I know the powers "reset" each player turn so an offensive one to use in my turn and shield to use during the opponents turn would be the most effective. (blood lance)

Is my information correct though? I could be up the wrong tree entirely...

Blood lance is good but if assaulting id prefer sanguine sword.
1 other thing (really minor detail here) id put your pfs in the same unit for 1 reason. If they are both in different units a smart opponent will challenge them out each turn, whilst if they are in the same unit, if an opponent challenges one out you still have the other. Gives a unit a role as an mc hunter too (esp if you run one squad without a priest and instead put that priest with the libby).
I'll show you what a I mean:

Libby
(With shield of sanguinius and sanguine sword) force axe.
Priest
Jump pack, powerfist
Assault squad x10
Powerfist, 2 meltaguns
(Now you have a MC/termie hunter squad as the opponent can only challenge out one of the 3 a turn, probably the force weapon. Against termies just accept the challenge with the sarge for mutually assured destruction of sarges)

Priest
Power axe
Assault squad x10
Power axe, 2 melta guns
(If not facing termies, run powerswords for a marine hunter squad. I would even run this as powermauls to help with horde but I remember you said your meta was mostly marines.)

Assault squad x10
Powerfist, 2 meltaguns
(I would combat squad this squad into both melta and the fist for tank hunting duty and a naked 5 man squad for screening/charge blocking/delaying tactics, or just to add weight of attacks where needed.)

Preds: as you had them.

Total: 1850.

Small change but gives each squad a more defined role. All can still go tank hunting/ mc hunting/ marine hunting or horde hunting if needed.

Ok, thanks. Wow that's going in depth. Although I thought if you accept/declare the challenge you can choose who on your side is part of the challenge which would mean I could choose either the power fist or power axe leaving the other to attack the squad. Am I correct and does that change anything? I could have the wrong end of the stick here...? thanks

You're right, but with ap2 unweildy weapons its very often worth denying the challenge to save a character (as against an invuln or non unwieldy ignorning armour opponent your priest or sarge will die before hitting) and at that point the opponent picks which character cant attack. But the opponent can only pick one, so the other 1 or 2 still get to mash face.
Of course if its a mega marine killer character in a unit its often worth sacrificing the sarge to prevent the slaughter of marines. Esp if they are unwieldy too.

Ahh ok, so your talking about if I deny the challenge and then the opponent can choose either character to remove from the assault more than likely removing the character with the more suited weapon and therefore it would be better to have the same weapon. Although isn't the power fist always better than the axe or does the axe have other special rules than the strength boosting? Thanks

Mephiston33 wrote:
Ahh ok, so your talking about if I deny the challenge and then the opponent can choose either character to remove from the assault more than likely removing the character with the more suited weapon and therefore it would be better to have the same weapon. Although isn't the power fist always better than the axe or does the axe have other special rules than the strength boosting? Thanks

The axe is still AP1 and 10pts cheaper than a power fist.

Yeh just cheaper.

Hmm ok thanks for all your help it's much appreciated and I think it's got me on track at last... Can't wait to have a go with it! Thanks

Good teamwork ;-).

It was! A great discussion with pleasing results