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By Richard Nixon, I'm not talking about the Watergate aspect, but rather, the madman, the unpredictable mad man strategy to bomb Cambodia in the 1970s, or in GW's case, world domination!

Consider the evidence:

1. We've had reports that yesterday's games day had no games!

2. Yanking up the prices and people are still buying them. For example, £20 got you 10 dire avengers a few months ago, but now you're getting 5 for the same price, and people are still snapping them up.

3. GW brick and mortar stores are a parody of what they used to be, but the one I passed the other day was jam-packed!

I could go on, but if I were one of GW's rivals I would be thinking that they've sold out a games day that had no games, produced dire rules for its games systems ten years running, doubled the prices on some miniatures, and yet, they're still number one. I think we should quit!

Is GW's madman strategy paying off? Thoughts?

GW did go to China too.

 reds8n wrote:
GW did go to China too.

Thank god for that, otherwise we wouldn't get half the leaks we usually get regarding new stuff!

I assume the headless body of Kirby will eventually rule GW for eternity when they get the technology.

Well the other way to look at it is...
GW plc are shedding customers faster than a cut Chrismas tree drops needles in January.

Yes there are loads of 'new Tweenies' that dont know any better, and some folks so heavily invested in GW , they feel locked in.

BUT in 2004, GW plc had a Turnover of £197M adjusted for inflation .This goes to appx £320M when adjusted for price rises over inflation.
The last Fiscal report Showed a turn over of £135M.(Thats £185M down in 9 years.)

In 2004 GW had hardly any direct competition.
Now they have a raft of new companies sprung up and taking market share off them.
Mantic Games , Warlord games , Corvus Belli , Privateer Press,Battle Front,etc.

These new companies have taken MOST of the customers GW used to have that liked playing games with clearly defined rules .Mainly games that have replaced the range of games GW used to support.
(Specialist games and board games.)

By gamers for gamers is catered for by the ton of GREAT GAMES companies out there.

By senior management decision , for senior management payouts , is catered for by GW plc.

Lanrak wrote:
Well the other way to look at it is...
GW plc are shedding customers faster than a cut Chrismas tree drops needles in January.

Yes there are loads of 'new Tweenies' that dont know any better, and some folks so heavily invested in GW , they feel locked in.

BUT in 2004, GW plc had a Turnover of £197M adjusted for inflation .This goes to appx £320M when adjusted for price rises over inflation.
The last Fiscal report Showed a turn over of £135M.(Thats £185M down in 9 years.)

In 2004 GW had hardly any direct competition.
Now they have a raft of new companies sprung up and taking market share off them.
Mantic Games , Warlord games , Corvus Belli , Privateer Press,Battle Front,etc.

These new companies have taken MOST of the customers GW used to have that liked playing games with clearly defined rules .Mainly games that have replaced the range of games GW used to support.
(Specialist games and board games.)

By gamers for gamers is catered for by the ton of GREAT GAMES companies out there.

By senior management decision , for senior management payouts , is catered for by GW plc.

I wouldn't call mantic competition, not after the debacles of their kickstarters. They burnt a lot of bridges there. Every time I've sold other companies stuff on ebay it has always made less money than its GW equivalent. I honestly think the GW strategy will keep them going for years to come.

Hmmmmm.
I got my introduction to the miniature wargaming world through Games Workshop and for that I'll be forever grateful, I'm fairly new to the whole thing (maybe just over a year?) but with the prices being what they are I'm seriously considering moving on to pastures new.

It's not that I can't flat out afford the minis. I can, it's just a question of value for money. I spend hours just cleaning models before letting them have a sniff of primer and I get a lot of enjoyment and theraputic relaxation from it but even then I have to pause and ask myself... Is it really worth it? £35 for ten plastic cannon fodder minis out of a regiment that would require double that figure just to function says no, not really.

(Also GW's fixation on the Horus Heresey, at the expense of, in my opinion, more interesting aspects of it's universe has left a bitter taste in my mouth.)

So by comparison stuff like Corvus Belli's Infinity looks amazing for the outlay. I'll still buy the odd GW piece here and there for painting purposes but other than the Dark Elf army I'm putting together already from various ebay bits I can't see the boys in Nottingham getting much more of my cash, really. It's nice stuff, just getting to the point (well, we're far past the point of no return for a lot of you I'm sure) that I'm not interested anymore due to the money involved.

Still, I guess this is GW's attract the n00bs (me) policy in action. It leads to burnout very quickly.

Not to mention there are other non miniature hobbies that vye for my attention

Having said all that... I'm sure the Christmas battleboxes will sway my fickle self, silly model magpie that I am!

tl;dr GW is expensive, innit?

I'm still having trouble grokking the idea of Games Day with no Games....

The Auld Grump

Mantic is competition. That's hilarious. GW doesn't have any "serious" competition yet in a single company. They're are lots of companies taking small bites, but even a game that seems to becoming exponentially more popular in infinity didn't even bring Corvus Belli $1MM USD last year.

 cincydooley wrote:
Mantic is competition. That's hilarious. GW doesn't have any "serious" competition yet in a single company. They're are lots of companies taking small bites, but even a game that seems to becoming exponentially more popular in infinity didn't even bring Corvus Belli $1MM USD last year.

How about privateer press, and not fixating on one company, all those other companies with similar products combined must take a chunk out of GW's projected revenue.

 cincydooley wrote:
Mantic is competition. That's hilarious. GW doesn't have any "serious" competition yet in a single company. They're are lots of companies taking small bites, but even a game that seems to becoming exponentially more popular in infinity didn't even bring Corvus Belli $1MM USD last year.

While they haven't started making the ludicrously big bucks, Corvus Bellis growth has been phenomenal for a small studio. Note that this stops at the 2011 financial year, and they were already at $888k operating revenue. There's still another financial year after that we haven't seen.

I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

How has much of this affect any of us, except for giving you something else to yell about? It seems as if half the people who discuss GW business practices don't even play 40k anymore anyway. so who cares?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

How has much of this affect any of us, except for giving you something else to yell about? It seems as if half the people who discuss GW business practices don't even play 40k anymore anyway. so who cares?

Agreed. To all you plebeians that continue to hate on GW: if you don't like the company then don't buy their products. Meanwhile, true hobbyists like myself and SoloFalcon will continue to purchase the best miniatures in the world.

KirbyFan wrote:
. Meanwhile, true hobbyists like myself and SoloFalcon will continue to purchase the best miniatures in the world.

Which miniatures are they?

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Which miniatures are they?

GW miniatures, of course. The hobby in question is the masochistic experience of buying GW products, so there's really only one option.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

KirbyFan wrote:
. Meanwhile, true hobbyists like myself and SoloFalcon will continue to purchase the best miniatures in the world.

Which miniatures are they?

I read it and assumed they had a line on some Rackham stock.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

INdeed. And they keep posting the same threads again and again.

People have a right to moan, it's part of being human, but they should also understand the nature of a Plc.

Like him or not, Kirby is widely respected. GW is a public company, it exists to pay shareholders, that's how Plcs work. The fact that Kelly actually has a lot of shares is a good thing, in terms of corporate governance.

Market sentiment is that GW is performing well, hence their share performance. Like it or not, that's the reality.

 Peregrine wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Which miniatures are they?

GW miniatures, of course. The hobby in question is the masochistic experience of buying GW products, so there's really only one option.

I haven't had any masochistic experiences purchasing GW minis. Three local stores carry or may order the products that I want and I have access to the Internet. If I can't afford them, I save up or surf ebay. I'm not sure where the travails of the hobby have affected me.

I truly believe more people like to bitch and moan about GW than actually play. Ok, we get it, you've moved on the Flames of War or Warmachine or whatever. Great. Fine. Go discuss those games.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Market sentiment is that GW is performing well, hence their share performance. Like it or not, that's the reality.

I've said it before but I guess I have to say it again: the market rewards short term performance. The market is perfectly happy if GW uses a self-destructive strategy that sacrifices future success for immediate profits, because the investors that own the majority of GW shares don't see anything beyond their annual profit numbers. We as players, on the other hand, have a stake in the long term success of GW, so we can come to the exact opposite conclusion about the wisdom of GW's actions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I truly believe more people like to bitch and moan about GW than actually play. Ok, we get it, you've moved on the Flames of War or Warmachine or whatever. Great. Fine. Go discuss those games.

I could say the same thing about you complaining about these threads. We get it, you love GW. Great. Fine. Go discuss how much you love GW in the "GW is awesome" threads and stop posting in the "why GW is wrong threads" to tell us how much you hate talking about it.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

INdeed. And they keep posting the same threads again and again.

Ah, yes! What we have here is a perfect example of irony!

You don't like the thread. You don't have to click on it. You don't have comment on it. You don't have to whine about the whiners whining about the whiners. No-one has a gun to your head (I presume).

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Like him or not, Kirby is widely respected. GW is a public company, it exists to pay shareholders, that's how Plcs work. The fact that Kelly actually has a lot of shares is a good thing, in terms of corporate governance.

A) Where are you getting that he is respected from? Obviously his shareholders like the dividends he pays but I can't imagine they give half a gak about anything else related to him.
B) Those of us that don't like him has no problem with him making the company money, we have a problem with him making money in the short term and then paying dividends while sacrificing long term viability to do it.
C) Isn't being a significant shareholder and CEO illegal, hence why he is and had been 'acting' CEO for quite a few years (then I believe they brought in Wells but kicked him out a year or so ago)?
Maybe I'm thinking it's he's not supposed to be both chairman and CEO..
Point is I've seen nothing saying he is respected (not the difference between respected and liked there, I'm sure shareholders like him) but the shrinking customer base and market share certainly doesn't do him any credit.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
The fact that Kirby actually has a lot of shares is a good thing, in terms of corporate governance.

That's been a matter of debate amongst UK accounting institutions for many years, moving towards the view that that's not in fact the case. The change in the structure of executive bonus awards over the last 18 months to 2 years would suggest that renumeration committees are coming round to that view as well.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I'm still having trouble grokking the idea of Games Day with no Games....

The Auld Grump

Perhaps next year it will be an all-night event.

KirbyFan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

How has much of this affect any of us, except for giving you something else to yell about? It seems as if half the people who discuss GW business practices don't even play 40k anymore anyway. so who cares?

Agreed. To all you plebeians that continue to hate on GW: if you don't like the company then don't buy their products. Meanwhile, true hobbyists like myself and SoloFalcon will continue to purchase the best miniatures in the world.

And to all you ignoramuses who continue to cast aspersions on people criticising Games Workshop - try to realize it's entirely possible to like, play and buy models for a game and dislike the company who produces it.

Also, I have a hard time believing people who have seen what other companies produce can say GW's models are consistently superior.

I mean, this looks like a chapterhouse conversion kit. Compared to this? There's not even any contest.

Now, now. Remember rule 1.

KirbyFan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I love how many marketing, business, and retail experts there are on Dakka...

How has much of this affect any of us, except for giving you something else to yell about? It seems as if half the people who discuss GW business practices don't even play 40k anymore anyway. so who cares?

Agreed. To all you plebeians that continue to hate on GW: if you don't like the company then don't buy their products. Meanwhile, true hobbyists like myself and SoloFalcon will continue to purchase the best miniatures in the world.

3/10 troll harder. It was a good attempt, but if you use logical fallacies your falling flat at the first hurdle.

 -Loki- wrote:

Also, I have a hard time believing people who have seen what other companies produce can say GW's models are consistently superior.

I mean, this looks like a chapterhouse conversion kit. Compared to this? There's not even any contest.

Indeed. I see GW as the Ford of miniatures - perfectly fine on their own but there are so many superior miniatures out there. Take this as another example. Which is the more superior model in terms of detail, look and concept:

This:


Or this:

Hmm....the first model's garish paint job makes it difficult to ascertain.

But strangely, I want to buy 10, grind them into powder, and snort vigorously.

 zedmeister wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Also, I have a hard time believing people who have seen what other companies produce can say GW's models are consistently superior.

I mean, this looks like a chapterhouse conversion kit. Compared to this? There's not even any contest.

Indeed. I see GW as the Ford of miniatures - perfectly fine on their own but there are so many superior miniatures out there. Take this as another example. Which is the more superior model in terms of detail, look and concept:

This:

Spoiler:

Or this:

Spoiler:

Weirdly the second one was sculpted by Forgeworld sculptor Daniel Cockersell. Go figure.

 Peregrine wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Market sentiment is that GW is performing well, hence their share performance. Like it or not, that's the reality.

I've said it before but I guess I have to say it again: the market rewards short term performance. The market is perfectly happy if GW uses a self-destructive strategy that sacrifices future success for immediate profits, because the investors that own the majority of GW shares don't see anything beyond their annual profit numbers. We as players, on the other hand, have a stake in the long term success of GW, so we can come to the exact opposite conclusion about the wisdom of GW's actions

Indeed, I wouldn't disagree. The way that Plcs are organised is antithetical to long-term investment, there is a lot of debate going on about its effect on British companies in general. But this is the nature of the beast; complaining about it is like hanging out with a scorpion and complaining when it stings you.

I understand all the Kirby hate from the fans' point of view - of course we hate the prices (and of course we exaggerate, claiming everything has doubled in price, when we know they haven't really). But the share price over the last eight years has performed well - and that's how CEOs are measured. As for CEOs holding shares - I would worry more if they were selling them.

GW is just another company and, you know what, I reckon it's more moral than most. Look at some of Apple's sourcing policies, the energy companies, facebook, most clothing manufacturers... personally, I save my anger for them, and don't worry about paying a couple of quid more for models where the biggest investment is actually the time spent painting them. But hey, we all like to get angry about different things I guess.