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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 00:17:31
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Wing Commander
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Kain wrote: Maniac_nmt wrote: Kain wrote:[
The Tyranids can adapt to be impervious to ship grade Ion weaponry with some extra snot.
The gargoyles that is.
And if Nurgle, who is the literal god and lord of all disease and decay, can't do it, there's no way some puny, weak, and irrelevant little empire like the Tau can get it to stick.
Yet some puny, weak, irrelevant, and caught in incredibly bass-ackwards approach to science folks like the Imperium can, have, and have made that into a standard weapon that is touted as being very effective against the Tyranids?
The high end of the Imperium is vastly more advanced than anything the Tau have ever come up with or likely ever will.
The Tau cannot touch Horus Heresy era and Dark age of technology era technology.
Additionally, the Adeptus Mechanicus is actually very competent at science. They're just very conservative at invention.
The Tau will never amount to anything but a footnote. They're no larger than many other minor xenos empires, and some (like the Qo'orrl swarmhood) are actually larger and more powerful, they just happen to have an army book.
So, because it's Tau, it won't work. Yet the Imperium can do what Nurgle cannot? I'm sorry, which is it? They're immune or not? Because Immunity would be possible vs the mutagenics of a Hellfire shell, yet they haven't developed immunity to that.
Because clearly they cannot uber evolve beyond everything, even biologic based weapons. Mutagens work, and have a good history of working on them due to the fact that said mutagens have become somewhat standard issue ordinance for Marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 00:55:13
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Well there have been several instances of both biochemical warfare and nuclear warfare throughout the fluff in 40k:
Krieg resorted to nuking itself to oblivion to try and put down a rebellion (didnt work as well as anyone would hope), making the world a largely desolate wasteland (hence the dkok fancy getup and fatalism)
In one of the ultramarine novels they do use a biological weapon to wipe out a tendril of a hive fleet, however using the same toxin later yielded no results, so thats probably what will happen the next time tau try to use it.
The problem with these weapons is that in an era of high technology, enemy militaries will either adapt (suiting up or evolving) or largely ignoring long term effects. Another reason why these weapons are not usually used is that while on hiveworlds the longterm damage can be largely negligible, on various other imperial and agriworlds it has the potential to do more damage to a sector than just sending in another wave of guardsmen.
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DA 4000 points W/L/D 6e 3/2/0
IG 1500 points W/L/D 6e 0/2/0
And 100% Primed! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 06:03:46
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Maniac_nmt wrote: Grey Templar wrote: Maniac_nmt wrote: uk_crow wrote:This isn't strategic level stuff though that wipes out entire cities, but designed knock out strong points, chokes points etc. Has any fluff ever mentioned a bio-engineered virus designed to solely target a specific race, although tyranids would probably just adapt to it but against orks it could wreak havoc? The tau could easily manage that. Maybe it would make the story move on too quickly.
TheSGC wrote:Nuclear weaponry is still used (man-portable nukes are carried around in the novel Baneblade, and IIRC they were part of the 2nd Armageddon War), it's just largely eschewed in favor of more precise laser weaponry.
ahhh cheers, you know the whereabouts of the fluff about the 2nd Armageddon War?
The Tau have indeed built mutagenic viruses that the Tyranids cannot adapt and evolve beyond. Farsight's group used one that kept mutating fast enough that the Tyranids could not evolve out of it and it destroyed the whole 'fleet'.
The Imperium, though, lacks that 'out of the box' thinking for developing such a bio weapon, and thus theirs have not been as effective.
No, it just was fast enough to overcome that fleet. It will not work against the next fleet.
Imperial Bio weapons have accomplished similar things, but the Imperium realizes that it only ever works once. So putting energy into a bio weapon is simply not an effective way of countering the Tyranids.
That's a pretty great trick as there was nothing left for the Tyranids to evolve a counter to. You cannot generate a counter or evolve out of something when you don't have anything to work from, which they don't.
Nothing to do with power levels.
Second, a Hellfire shell is a weapon made for fighting tyranids and they have not 'evolved' beyond it, despite it being, on a certain level, analogous to a viral weapon.
The Hive Mind is connected across all Hive Fleets. It knows what happened and will have prepared a counter measure.
Helfire rounds aren't a bio weapon. They are an acid based weapon that has a component that causes DNA break down. Its not specific enough to evolve a defense against, too generic of an attack. Or perhaps becoming acid resistant means you don't resist heat based weaponry as well as you used to, so the Hive Mind sees it as not worth the effort.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 07:20:00
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Maniac_nmt wrote: Kain wrote: Maniac_nmt wrote: Kain wrote:[
The Tyranids can adapt to be impervious to ship grade Ion weaponry with some extra snot.
The gargoyles that is.
And if Nurgle, who is the literal god and lord of all disease and decay, can't do it, there's no way some puny, weak, and irrelevant little empire like the Tau can get it to stick.
Yet some puny, weak, irrelevant, and caught in incredibly bass-ackwards approach to science folks like the Imperium can, have, and have made that into a standard weapon that is touted as being very effective against the Tyranids?
The high end of the Imperium is vastly more advanced than anything the Tau have ever come up with or likely ever will.
The Tau cannot touch Horus Heresy era and Dark age of technology era technology.
Additionally, the Adeptus Mechanicus is actually very competent at science. They're just very conservative at invention.
The Tau will never amount to anything but a footnote. They're no larger than many other minor xenos empires, and some (like the Qo'orrl swarmhood) are actually larger and more powerful, they just happen to have an army book.
So, because it's Tau, it won't work. Yet the Imperium can do what Nurgle cannot? I'm sorry, which is it? They're immune or not? Because Immunity would be possible vs the mutagenics of a Hellfire shell, yet they haven't developed immunity to that.
Because clearly they cannot uber evolve beyond everything, even biologic based weapons. Mutagens work, and have a good history of working on them due to the fact that said mutagens have become somewhat standard issue ordinance for Marines.
I
Hellfire rounds are a cocktail of various acids and corrosive agents, not biotoxins.
Stop being a dense fanboy.
Even the Lifeeater Virus is now ineffective, and that's leagues more potent than anything the Tau can muster. Nurgle cannot infect them, the Imperium cannot infect them with a virus that literally eats an entire planet's biosphere in minutes. Biological warfare is a terrible idea against the Tyranids.
And the most primitive faction in 40k is certainly not going to be capable of it either. The Tau are less advanced than the high end of every other tech using species. The Necrons are just flat out more advanced in every way. The Eldar are flat out more advanced in every way. The High End of Ork, Chaos, and Imperial technology is vastly beyond the scope of anything the Tau have ever produced.
The Tau are just that weak and will be destroyed by the first major faction that seriously devotes any real effort to it's destruction.
That includes the Dark Eldar.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/04 07:20:57
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 16:24:23
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Dakka Veteran
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Note that 40K probably doesn't have the 'firepower gap' that real life has between conventional weapons and nuclear (disregarding chemical and biological weapons for a moment.) You have melta munitions (meltabombs, the old Griffon melta shells, melta missiles, etc.) as well as plasma munitions of various types, pure fusion, etc. so they have some pretty hefty scalability and versatility when it comes to their munitions (the core rules even have referred to meltabombs as some sort of anti-tank fusion munition IIRC, though I can't remember the exact wording offhand except it involves reducing it to a wreck in milliseconds.)
We know the Krieg have used and probably still do use nuclear/biological and chemical weapons at least to a limited degree, that seems to be part and parcel of their MO. There are varied kinds of virus munitions as well, and incentdiaries (phosphex and modern stuff to the exotic stuff the Vindicaire use in their ammo that can cremate an entire body through some unknown process.)
Titans, Starships (and starfighters), and anti-Titan superheavies like Baneblades *probably* qualify as 'nuke like' weapons as well, since their firepower is pretty hefty all told. More than conventional but probably not quite full-fledged nuclear in modern terms (although in context of starships it may only be 'tactical' bombardment - at least some sources suggest they have considerably greater firepower than modern nukes.)
And of course Vortex weapons.
The main factor dictating their use I suspect is politics and/or logistics. Politics being like some AdMech/Ecclesiarchy/Munitorum faction going 'I don't want to lose my valuable property in a orbital bombardment or nuclear exchange, so we're going to send in huge numbers of infantry to clear out the enemy the hard way, and casualties be damned.' Logistics of course is related to the warp and the inconsistent communication/travel issues for the Imperium as well as the bureaucracy that runs the Imperium.
Whilst escalation may be a concern with some enemies (EG like the Tau, insurrectionists, etc.) Its less of an issue against races like the Tyrnaids, becaues the Tyranids already practice biowarfare as part of their 'eat all life on a planet' process (messing with the atmosphere/biosphere.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 16:27:44
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Conniving Informer
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Just for completeness, if I recall correctly, there was fluff in one of the 'nid codices where the Imperium used a bio-weapon developed from captured 'nids to turn the tide in the defence of a planet against one of the arms of Hive Fleet Kraken (could be wrong on the fleet).
Also, on the topic of tac. nukes, it would be absurd in the largest ways if the the Imperium didn't use such weaponry. They constantly encounter warfare to whic low-yield, low-to-zero radiation weapons are perfectly suited to. Presumably they just don't show up in the very small scale skirmishes 40k was originally intended to represent. They might show in Apocalypse, if that game was anything other than an exercise in "let's see what happens when we all throw our entire collections on the table and mash them together for 8 hours." Someone earlier indicated WMDs do show up in Epic, which makes sense (and does an infinitely better job depicting mass warfare in 40k than any adaptation of the 28mm skirmish rules ever could).
Mind you, this is all sort of academic since in many cases the tabletop rules have about as much relationship to the fluff they're supposed to represent as a bowl of fruit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 16:29:52
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Well the Deathstrike missile is a tactical nuke for all intents and purposes. It has one of the larger blasts in the game, potentially bigger than the Apocalypse blast.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 20:31:20
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Wing Commander
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Hellfire rounds are a cocktail of various acids and corrosive agents, not biotoxins.
Stop being a dense fanboy.
Even the Lifeeater Virus is now ineffective, and that's leagues more potent than anything the Tau can muster. Nurgle cannot infect them, the Imperium cannot infect them with a virus that literally eats an entire planet's biosphere in minutes. Biological warfare is a terrible idea against the Tyranids.
And the most primitive faction in 40k is certainly not going to be capable of it either. The Tau are less advanced than the high end of every other tech using species. The Necrons are just flat out more advanced in every way. The Eldar are flat out more advanced in every way. The High End of Ork, Chaos, and Imperial technology is vastly beyond the scope of anything the Tau have ever produced.
The Tau are just that weak and will be destroyed by the first major faction that seriously devotes any real effort to it's destruction.
That includes the Dark Eldar.
It is a mutagenic acid. Ergo it has some bio active property contained within the acid delivery system or is an acid designed for a specific function. Thus, Tyranids are not immune to all biologic based attacks.
No need to be a prick. I didn't say the Tau were 'uber' or anything. However, they are better at various things than other factions. Their basic weaponry, as an example, is plasma (pulse rifles are effectively a plasma based weapon, converting a round into a pseudo plasma discharge). They can do this without the safety problems the Imperium has with their plasma 'getting hot'. Invisibility is also not something the Imperium has mastered (it even comes up when the Imperium was technically more advanced during the heresy, as they have trouble with "invisible" foes storming "terra"). Saying they cannot accomplish something because you don't like them is just silly. We don't know what Farsight's chaps used, suffice to say as per the fluff, the Tyranids did resist initial attempts, but the final weapon mutated itself rapidly enough that they could not keep up with it. It is a mutagenic agent...gee...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 20:45:04
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Maniac_nmt wrote:
Hellfire rounds are a cocktail of various acids and corrosive agents, not biotoxins.
Stop being a dense fanboy.
Even the Lifeeater Virus is now ineffective, and that's leagues more potent than anything the Tau can muster. Nurgle cannot infect them, the Imperium cannot infect them with a virus that literally eats an entire planet's biosphere in minutes. Biological warfare is a terrible idea against the Tyranids.
And the most primitive faction in 40k is certainly not going to be capable of it either. The Tau are less advanced than the high end of every other tech using species. The Necrons are just flat out more advanced in every way. The Eldar are flat out more advanced in every way. The High End of Ork, Chaos, and Imperial technology is vastly beyond the scope of anything the Tau have ever produced.
The Tau are just that weak and will be destroyed by the first major faction that seriously devotes any real effort to it's destruction.
That includes the Dark Eldar.
It is a mutagenic acid. Ergo it has some bio active property contained within the acid delivery system or is an acid designed for a specific function. Thus, Tyranids are not immune to all biologic based attacks.
No need to be a prick. I didn't say the Tau were 'uber' or anything. However, they are better at various things than other factions. Their basic weaponry, as an example, is plasma (pulse rifles are effectively a plasma based weapon, converting a round into a pseudo plasma discharge). They can do this without the safety problems the Imperium has with their plasma 'getting hot'. Invisibility is also not something the Imperium has mastered (it even comes up when the Imperium was technically more advanced during the heresy, as they have trouble with "invisible" foes storming "terra"). Saying they cannot accomplish something because you don't like them is just silly. We don't know what Farsight's chaps used, suffice to say as per the fluff, the Tyranids did resist initial attempts, but the final weapon mutated itself rapidly enough that they could not keep up with it. It is a mutagenic agent...gee...
I'm being a prick because you're assuming the Tau are special when they're not. They are grotesquely inferior to any faction with actual galactic pull. Even the Orks are more advanced than they are, given their superior usage of warp based technology, teleporters, better shielding, and save for the Necrons and Eldar, anyone else's technology base can be made to serve the Orks. Not to mention that Farsight is getting his ass kicked in the war of dakka by a downright tiny Waaagh.
And the Tyranids are immune, it works precisely once on a single fleet. All other fleets will be immune to the effects. Even the life-eater virus, which destroys entire planets, far beyond the Tau's meager, limited capabilities, is no longer regarded as an effective method of Exterminatus against the Tyranids, requiring a switch from the Life eater to purely orbital bombardment or cyclonic torpedo based forms of Exterminatus. Or if you have some DAOT stuff, you use gravitational beams to crash the entire moon into the planet.
Also, anything the Tau have ever made, humanity has made a much better version of during either the Dark Age of Technology or the Horus Heresy/Great Crusade. This includes cloaking devices, plasma guns, mass drivers (railguns/coil guns etc) power suits, anything really.
Mutagenic acid is also a meaningless term. Acid is not a living thing, it is not even a facsimile of a living thing. Acid is by definition, just a chemical with a lot of free floating hydrogen ions. It does not mutate because that requires some ability to change.
There is nothing special about the Tau save for a somewhat better median for technology than the Imperium and the Orks. And an inferior median to the Eldar and Necrons.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/04 20:48:03
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 21:29:48
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Wing Commander
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Kain wrote:
I'm being a prick because you're assuming the Tau are special when they're not. They are grotesquely inferior to any faction with actual galactic pull. Even the Orks are more advanced than they are, given their superior usage of warp based technology, teleporters, better shielding, and save for the Necrons and Eldar, anyone else's technology base can be made to serve the Orks. Not to mention that Farsight is getting his ass kicked in the war of dakka by a downright tiny Waaagh.
And the Tyranids are immune, it works precisely once on a single fleet. All other fleets will be immune to the effects. Even the life-eater virus, which destroys entire planets, far beyond the Tau's meager, limited capabilities, is no longer regarded as an effective method of Exterminatus against the Tyranids, requiring a switch from the Life eater to purely orbital bombardment or cyclonic torpedo based forms of Exterminatus. Or if you have some DAOT stuff, you use gravitational beams to crash the entire moon into the planet.
Also, anything the Tau have ever made, humanity has made a much better version of during either the Dark Age of Technology or the Horus Heresy/Great Crusade. This includes cloaking devices, plasma guns, mass drivers (railguns/coil guns etc) power suits, anything really.
Mutagenic acid is also a meaningless term. Acid is not a living thing, it is not even a facsimile of a living thing. Acid is by definition, just a chemical with a lot of free floating hydrogen ions. It does not mutate because that requires some ability to change.
There is nothing special about the Tau save for a somewhat better median for technology than the Imperium and the Orks. And an inferior median to the Eldar and Necrons.
Acid, in order to be mutagenic, breaks down the bonds of cells in a fashion that causes them to mutate (not all acid is mutagenic). Radiation can do this, biologics can do this, and some acid can do this. As, at the most basic level, something causes a cellular change of some sort . The delivery method can vary, but it still causes the cell to alter in some fashion. It can work on a DNA or more macro level, but typically involves converting something into something else.
Saying 'they're immune to x so they must be immune to y' is silly. I'm inoculated and effectively immune to typhoid currently, that doesn't make me immune to cholera. I received my flu shot this year, does that mean I'm immune to all flu forever? No, because it changes and adapts. What once worked on it needs to be altered. This is why flu vaccines change over time and why we cannot cure the common cold. It is why we get things like MRSA or other super bugs that defy methods to fight them.
Being immune to a glorified version of a Necrotizing Fasciitis has nothing to do with being immune to Japanese Encephalitis. Clearly Tyranids are not immune to all cellular damage. They might learn to form an anti body for some things, there are others that you would be hard pressed to. Indeed at some point going to far you'll invariably create something so nasty that you cannot defend against it because the toxicity would be so great as to be as bad as the cause of the problem. In some respects they cannot make themselves immune to cellular damage, otherwise they could not evolve. Having a biology compliant to changing or mutation is necessary for their 'adaptation'. Making themselves immune to all cellular changes would effectively mean they couldn't change themselves any more.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/04 21:30:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/04 21:38:04
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Maniac_nmt wrote: Kain wrote:
I'm being a prick because you're assuming the Tau are special when they're not. They are grotesquely inferior to any faction with actual galactic pull. Even the Orks are more advanced than they are, given their superior usage of warp based technology, teleporters, better shielding, and save for the Necrons and Eldar, anyone else's technology base can be made to serve the Orks. Not to mention that Farsight is getting his ass kicked in the war of dakka by a downright tiny Waaagh.
And the Tyranids are immune, it works precisely once on a single fleet. All other fleets will be immune to the effects. Even the life-eater virus, which destroys entire planets, far beyond the Tau's meager, limited capabilities, is no longer regarded as an effective method of Exterminatus against the Tyranids, requiring a switch from the Life eater to purely orbital bombardment or cyclonic torpedo based forms of Exterminatus. Or if you have some DAOT stuff, you use gravitational beams to crash the entire moon into the planet.
Also, anything the Tau have ever made, humanity has made a much better version of during either the Dark Age of Technology or the Horus Heresy/Great Crusade. This includes cloaking devices, plasma guns, mass drivers (railguns/coil guns etc) power suits, anything really.
Mutagenic acid is also a meaningless term. Acid is not a living thing, it is not even a facsimile of a living thing. Acid is by definition, just a chemical with a lot of free floating hydrogen ions. It does not mutate because that requires some ability to change.
There is nothing special about the Tau save for a somewhat better median for technology than the Imperium and the Orks. And an inferior median to the Eldar and Necrons.
Acid, in order to be mutagenic, breaks down the bonds of cells in a fashion that causes them to mutate (not all acid is mutagenic). Radiation can do this, biologics can do this, and some acid can do this. As, at the most basic level, something causes a cellular change of some sort . The delivery method can vary, but it still causes the cell to alter in some fashion. It can work on a DNA or more macro level, but typically involves converting something into something else.
Saying 'they're immune to x so they must be immune to y' is silly. I'm inoculated and effectively immune to typhoid currently, that doesn't make me immune to cholera. I received my flu shot this year, does that mean I'm immune to all flu forever? No, because it changes and adapts. What once worked on it needs to be altered. This is why flu vaccines change over time and why we cannot cure the common cold. It is why we get things like MRSA or other super bugs that defy methods to fight them.
Being immune to a glorified version of a Necrotizing Fasciitis has nothing to do with being immune to Japanese Encephalitis. Clearly Tyranids are not immune to all cellular damage. They might learn to form an anti body for some things, there are others that you would be hard pressed to. Indeed at some point going to far you'll invariably create something so nasty that you cannot defend against it because the toxicity would be so great as to be as bad as the cause of the problem. In some respects they cannot make themselves immune to cellular damage, otherwise they could not evolve. Having a biology compliant to changing or mutation is necessary for their 'adaptation'. Making themselves immune to all cellular changes would effectively mean they couldn't change themselves any more.
Firstly, learn to quote properly.
Secondly, the description of the effects of a hellfire round are very much in line with a standard super-corrossive agent, but likely one with a fairly weak PH given it's lackluster effects against armor. It does not attack the genetic code of a target, it simply melts flesh off the bone.
The Tyranids also adapt on a level so quickly as to basically be magic. Again, they can make gargoyles immune to extinction event causing ship grade weaponry with a coating of magical snot. And again, this is a setting with literal magic, one should not look to the laws of physics and biology, which the very existence of things like Chaos proves are more or less totally ignored, but rather the demonstrated rules of the setting.
Every single bioweapon utilized against the tyranids has never worked against two fleets. Not the Blood Raven's toxin engineered with Dark Age of Technology equipment (and thus superior to the Tau's), not Uriel Ventris' genophagic virus, not the life eater virus, not even Nurgle's rot or the plague of unbelief.
Tell you what, Nurgle releases his rot on the Tau Empire and his legions enact a full scale invasion of Tau space.
Where this done on the Tyranids, his rot would just bounce off even though it is blatantly magic.
With the Tau though, I would bet that the Death Guard would see the Empire destroyed in a few years.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 12:28:23
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Imperium has nukes, and they've been used, but they also have weapons that create heavier blasts than fission. They have plasma technology, which is fusion based, and they have plasma warheads in addition to an whole compliment of unimaginably heavy ordinance that can be delivered from spacecraft.
Every major ground conflict that happens in the novels/background etc is launched because they don't have the option to simply destroy the enemy from orbit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 19:17:00
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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Kain wrote:
I'm being a prick because you're assuming the Tau untermensch are special when they're not. They are grotesquely inferior to the Tyranid master race. Even the Orks are more advanced than they are, given their superior usage of warp based technology, teleporters, better shielding, and save for the Necrons and Eldar, anyone else's technology base can be made to serve the Orks. Not to mention that Farsight is getting his ass kicked in the war of dakka by a downright tiny Waaagh.
And the Tyranid master race are, due to their superior aryan genes, immune, it works precisely once on a single fleet. All other fleets will be immune to the effects. Even the life-eater virus, which destroys entire planets, far beyond these untermenchenøs meager, limited capabilities, is no longer regarded as an effective method of Exterminatus against the master race, requiring a switch from the Life eater to purely orbital bombardment or cyclonic torpedo based forms of Exterminatus. Or if you have some DAOT stuff, you use gravitational beams to crash the entire moon into the planet.
Also, anything these untermenchen have ever made, humanity has made a much better version of during either the Dark Age of Technology or the Horus Heresy/Great Crusade. This includes cloaking devices, plasma guns, mass drivers (railguns/coil guns etc) power suits, anything really.
Mutagenic acid is also a meaningless term. Acid is not a living thing, it is not even a facsimile of a living thing. Acid is by definition, just a chemical with a lot of free floating hydrogen ions. It does not mutate because that requires some ability to change.
There is nothing special about these blue colored untermenschen save for a somewhat better median for technology than the Imperium and the Orks. And an less pure genes than the Eldar and Necrons.
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amanita wrote:So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote:No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 21:25:32
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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But can one be completely immune to life eater virus? It's hard to imagine something that has no species barrier and attacks in trillions at once in lighting quick tempo can be out-evolved completely. Even more, entire species being immune to it! I mean, life-eater's second phase is blowing up a planet after everything organic was converted into gas. It doesn't matter if you are affected by a virus or not, others around you certainly are not going to be immune and it's their deaths who will contribute to your explosive demise.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 21:27:23
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 21:31:30
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Its not that the Nids would be totally immune to it, its that the Imperium is afraid they would use their exposure to it to adapt their own version of the Life Eater Virus. One that doesn't attack Nids and breaks down all other forms of life. They don't want to equip their enemy with their own weaponry.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 21:51:28
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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Grey Templar wrote:Its not that the Nids would be totally immune to it, its that the Imperium is afraid they would use their exposure to it to adapt their own version of the Life Eater Virus. One that doesn't attack Nids and breaks down all other forms of life. They don't want to equip their enemy with their own weaponry.
How would the Nids go about containing the virus though? The virus needs to be carried in a sealed container, or else you would run the risk of an outbreak. A Tyranid acting as a host for the virus would be eaten from the inside out by its own weapon!
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amanita wrote:So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote:No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 21:57:39
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Easy, you simply have it contained by an inorganic barrier such as glass.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 22:01:19
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Redcruisair wrote: Grey Templar wrote:Its not that the Nids would be totally immune to it, its that the Imperium is afraid they would use their exposure to it to adapt their own version of the Life Eater Virus. One that doesn't attack Nids and breaks down all other forms of life. They don't want to equip their enemy with their own weaponry.
How would the Nids go about containing the virus though? The virus needs to be carried in a sealed container, or else you would run the risk of an outbreak. A Tyranid acting as a host for the virus would be eaten from the inside out by its own weapon! They can breed a container. There are such things as "asymptomatic carriers" Or they can secrete a non-organic, mineral based substance around it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 22:01:54
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 22:23:52
Subject: Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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That defeats the purpose of having a life-eater virus to begin with. The whole point of this weapon is, that it "eats" all organisms.
But how could the Nids possibly create the virus in a non-organic container? Yeah I don’t doubt that the tyranids would have trouble transporting it, it is the brewing part the virus I believe the Nids will have some considerable trouble with.
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amanita wrote:So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote:No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 22:25:11
Subject: Re:Tactical nuclear weaponry/ WMDs use by the Imperium?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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they could also re-engineer the Virus to not destroy Tyranid organisms. A relatively simple operation.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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