Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wondering on the viability of this 1850 point (1846 to be exact) Crimson Fists (IF) all pod list (typical scenario is Purge the Alien vs Tau/Marines/Orks/Necrons);

Chapter Tactics : Imperial Fists

HQ :

Pedro Kantor (Goes with one pod of sternguard)
(160) MotF (Conversion Beamer, Shield Eternal (?)) - (Goes with one pod of sternguard)

Troops :

(185) 10 man Tac Squad (Drop Pod, Heavy Bolter)
(185) 10 man Tac Squad (Drop Pod, Heavy Bolter)

Elite :

(273) 9 man Sternguard (Drop Pod, Melta gun, 2 x Combi Melta)
(273) 9 man Sternguard (Drop Pod, Melta gun, 2 x Combi Melta)
(305) 10 Man Sternguard (Drop Pod, Melta gun, Multi Melta, 2 x Combi Melta)

Heavy :

(140) Dreadnought (Drop Pod, Dreadnought CCW/Stormbolter + TL Heavy Bolter)
(140) Dreadnought (Drop Pod, Dreadnought CCW/Stormbolter + TL Heavy Bolter)

The hope (beyond all hope) is to go second so I can drop where it's going to hurt most with 2 sternguard (including Pedro and the MotF) + 2 dreadnoughts, then bring in the rest where needed in the following turn(s). IF my typical drop pod (lack of) scatter luck holds then this should be able to put a major hurt on in T1 as my opponent didn't have much to do but maneouver.

If I have to go first, then I'm likely to drop to one side of the opponents half of the table and work my way towards the rest of his forces as I can (dropping the 2nd/3rd wave of pod(s) in on the opposing side of his force).

Comment and criticism welcomed

Some thoughts:

1) MotF is a point sink and really makes no sense in a DP as equipped. I'd leave him out

2) This means no dreads (a good thing, as they are a waste of points)

3) Take the Dread points and buy some honour guard in a DP, give the tac squads a melta or gravgun, give sarges MB and PW

4) left over points to a hunter(s) or StormTalon if there is enough.

Now drop en masse on a flank and enjoy some destruction

He needs the MOTF to move dreads into heavy's so he can take the stern. conversion beamer is weak sauce on a Deep striker. take the servo harness instead for the plasma/flamer/powerfist. its also comes in handy maybe if you need to repair a dread.

if possible make some points and up them to ironclad. its more durable + give them melta or flamers as thats the whole point of the podding them close.

Take off the multi-melta shield eternal Beamer use the points to change to ironclads or a third dreadnought(keep the mm on them as they can drop down and still shoot normally)

Seem solid otherwise

 Desubot wrote:
He needs the MOTF to move dreads into heavy's so he can take the stern. conversion beamer is weak sauce on a Deep striker. take the servo harness instead for the plasma/flamer/powerfist. its also comes in handy maybe if you need to repair a dread.

if possible make some points and up them to ironclad. its more durable + give them melta or flamers as thats the whole point of the podding them close.

Indeed that is the sole reason I have the MotF there. If I drop the conversion beamer then that frees up some points as I wouldn't mind taking the Dreads up to Ironclads.

Lobukia wrote:Some thoughts:

1) MotF is a point sink and really makes no sense in a DP as equipped. I'd leave him out

2) This means no dreads (a good thing, as they are a waste of points)

3) Take the Dread points and buy some honour guard in a DP, give the tac squads a melta or gravgun, give sarges MB and PW

4) left over points to a hunter(s) or StormTalon if there is enough.

Now drop en masse on a flank and enjoy some destruction

Why would you say dreads are a waste of points? If I were to upgrade to Ironclads (my original thought was to do so) would they be better? I am, after all, quite fond of them and my sternguard.

I considered honour guard. It was a toss up between them or a dread (or two) and they may make their way in (without question in a higher points list).

The tac squads are unlikely to get the chance to use melta or grav as they're (hopefully) coming in long after anything that needs those is gone (via the Sternguard + Dreads). I'm not a big fan of kitting out Tac squads (boys before toys and all that jazz).

As for the hunter or storm talon, the lack of cash to purchase those (way overpriced) kits leaves them out of the question at this time. I have no flyers, and for tanks I have a couple rhinos, vindicators, predators and razorbacks already, but of course none of those would really work in an all DP list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jpat1213 wrote:
Take off the multi-melta shield eternal Beamer use the points to change to ironclads or a third dreadnought(keep the mm on them as they can drop down and still shoot normally)

Seem solid otherwise

I was unsure on the Shield Eternal tbh. Definitely dropping the conversion beamer.

Oh also not to forget. IC count towards total number of units on the field. you will need one unit on turn 1 or ether the MOTF or pedro will need to stay out. unless you add something small like say a unit of scouts with camo cloaks. (sit in something bolstered by motf

Updated list :

CT : Imperial Fists

HQ :
Kantor + MotF (bare bones)

Elite :
9 sternguard (2 x CM, 1 MG, Drop Pod)
9 sternguard (2 x CM, 1 MG, Drop Pod)
10 sternguard (2 x CM, 1 MG, Drop Pod)

Troops :
10 Tacs (HB, MG, Drop Pod)
10 Tacs (HB, MG, Drop Pod)

Heavy :
Ironclad (Hurricane Bolter, Seismic Hammer/HF, Drop Pod)
Ironclad (Hurricane Bolter, Seismic Hammer/HF, Drop Pod)

Still 1846 points but with more survivable (and potentially more killy Dreads), melta on the tacs (just in case) (no mulit-melta on the stern, take advantage of the extra special-ammo boltgun), and no superfluous beamer on the MotF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh also not to forget. IC count towards total number of units on the field. you will need one unit on turn 1 or ether the MOTF or pedro will need to stay out. unless you add something small like say a unit of scouts with camo cloaks. (sit in something bolstered by motf

If the IC's are in vehicles that *must* start the game in reserves (Drop pods), they are not counted towards the limit. Everything is in drop pods, therefore I am 100% within my reserves limit.
And you need a unit on the table at the end of GAME turn 1 (which I will via 4 drop pods coming in full of bodies, regardless of which order we play in). So I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Independent Characters are also counted as a single unit regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not. (124)

IC are units that don't always start in reserves.

At least that was how i read it i might be wrong.

Edit: also it is "A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes" not A unit and its dedicated transport and IC

 Desubot wrote:
Oh also not to forget. IC count towards total number of units on the field. you will need one unit on turn 1 or ether the MOTF or pedro will need to stay out. unless you add something small like say a unit of scouts with camo cloaks. (sit in something bolstered by motf

Very confused... He just puts stuff in pods, and while in a pod nothing counts... unless an FAQ slipped by me (very well might have)

As to the list... if you like the Dreads, take them... but they just don't earn their points back. For example, that's a full squad of honour guard with their pod... which is way more durable, just as much fire power, will mow through things in CC, and can project your sternguard much better. I'm also curious if you face flyers... right now a couple Heldrakes ruin your day without any AA. IF devastators are actually pretty good compared to dreads (I probably wouldn't take them, but they're better than dreads). Once you drop the dreads (and you should if you're wanting to get the most for your points) you can also drop the MotF and take two Hunters. Now you've got a scary drop list with some firepower.

To max it out more, make those tacticals into scouts and spend those points on centurions or a bike squad or two with GGs.

BRB FAQ :

Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124)

A: No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh also not to forget. IC count towards total number of units on the field. you will need one unit on turn 1 or ether the MOTF or pedro will need to stay out. unless you add something small like say a unit of scouts with camo cloaks. (sit in something bolstered by motf

Very confused... He just puts stuff in pods, and while in a pod nothing counts... unless an FAQ slipped by me (very well might have)

As to the list... if you like the Dreads, take them... but they just don't earn their points back. For example, that's a full squad of honour guard with their pod... which is way more durable, just as much fire power, will mow through things in CC, and can project your sternguard much better. I'm also curious if you face flyers... right now a couple Heldrakes ruin your day without any AA. IF devastators are actually pretty good compared to dreads (I probably wouldn't take them, but they're better than dreads). Once you drop the dreads (and you should if you're wanting to get the most for your points) you can also drop the MotF and take two Hunters. Now you've got a scary drop list with some firepower.

To max it out more, make those tacticals into scouts and spend those points on centurions or a bike squad or two with GGs.

As I mentioned in the OP, I face Tau, Necrons, Marines and Orks. The only one with fliers is the Necron player and he has 2 doomscythes which have not been a huge advantage to him yet. And even then, he only rarely brings them (since none of us have fliers but him).

I may swap out the dreads for HG. Undecided at this point. I could throw in devastators as well in their place (or a small-ish squad of each, HG + Devs).

I won't be taking scouts, centurions or bikes, nor hunters or other tanks. This IS a full drop pod list after all.

Ah of course Faq well looks like it works out.

It could be fun to see if you can get Pedro, another CM, 3 squads of Sternguard, 2 Tacticals, and 2 Honour Guard into a list.... that's quite a bit of really shooty and really choppy drop units.

2 CM, 2 SG, 2Tac, 2HG is actually pretty easy... that's 6 DP with about 150 points extra to do whatever with (Storm Talon, cheap 5 man drop Assault squad...)

 Lobukia wrote:
It could be fun to see if you can get Pedro, another CM, 3 squads of Sternguard, 2 Tacticals, and 2 Honour Guard into a list.... that's quite a bit of really shooty and really choppy drop units.

2 CM, 2 SG, 2Tac, 2HG is actually pretty easy... that's 6 DP with about 150 points extra to do whatever with (Storm Talon, cheap 5 man drop Assault squad...)

Hmm. Could be interesting to throw together. I'll look at that alternative as well. Thanks.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chapter Master (Artificer armor)
Pedro Kantor

Honour Guard (5 man, Drop Pod)
Honour Guard (5 man, Drop Pod)

Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun)
Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun)
Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun)

Tac (10 man, drop pod)
Tac (10 man, drop pod)

1850 points.

Not much in the way of special gear (3 meltaguns for the initial strike to deal with any heavy armor) but a LOT of shooting.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also at 1850 could be;

Pedro

HG (5 man, drop pod)
HG (5 man, drop pod)

Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun, 2 x combi melta)
Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun, 2 x combi melta)
Sternguard (10 man, drop pod, meltagun)

Tac (10 man, drop pod, heavy bolter)
Tac (10 man, drop pod, heavy bolter)

Assault Squad (5 man, drop pod, flamer)

All options to consider. Hmm.

Even better:

Kantor
CM, artifArm, TH, Shield Eternal

5 HG Drop
5 HG Drop

10 Sternguard, 3 CombiMelta, 2 heavy Flamers Drop
10 Sternguard, 3 CombiMelta, 2 heavy Flamers Drop
10 Sternguard, 6 CombiPlasma Drop

5 tac, Melta, CombiMelta Drop
5 tac, Melta, CombiMelta Drop

That's giving up a LOT of bolters + Special ammo there Valek. (16 out of 30 special ammo bolters gone?) and making the tacs pretty weak.
(of course, when I wrote this it didn't say combi)

And my mistake on the previous list .. can't have 2 HG with only Kantor. Hmm.

I've done it before where I put Kantor with an assault squad in a pod (he gives them all an extra attack), then an HG by itself... that would be pretty point efficient too. Maybe stock vanguard instead (4 attacks base, before the charge is pretty impressive and you can hide a PF or TH in the squad that can't be challenged out). Not sure on the points though.

Then you don't have to pay for another CM and you can benefit from both a Chapter Banner on the HG and on the Vanguard. Two squads with 50 attacks on the charge each combined with 40 sternguard is pretty darn intimidating. HG have bolters too, so they can pump out volleys on the drop.

You might want to also consider a locator beacon on one of the early pods... no scatter then for an CC squad, and if you want to get fancy (it wouldn't be all pod, but it would be all DS) you can add 1 LS squad or an Jump Squad to your list (it could still reserve as its your only non DP unit)... just a thought (especially if you already have some of either and want to use it. 3 double HB LS that get to reroll ones are some pretty cheap, pretty, very mobile (though fragile) fire power.

Rorschach9 wrote:
That's giving up a LOT of bolters + Special ammo there Valek. (16 out of 30 special ammo bolters gone?) and making the tacs pretty weak.

Combi-bolters still get special ammunition on sternguard. Though they don't work with IF chapter traits.

Honestly though Sternguard are awesome I dont take them in squads of more then x5 men anymore. I think that in Pod armies you need alot more bodies and though they are awesome, knocking those guys down to squads of x5 with the role of anti infantry (aka with x2 heavy flamers) will go a long way in freeing up points for the rest of your army.

Also Dreadnoughts are not bad if you use them correctly. Are they amazing? No, however if you equip them with x2 Heavy Flamers each it really is a nasty combo and it will force your opponent to waste shots targetting them and ignoring your infantry.

 gmaleron wrote:

Also Dreadnoughts are not bad if you use them correctly. Are they amazing? No, however if you equip them with x2 Heavy Flamers each it really is a nasty combo and it will force your opponent to waste shots targetting them and ignoring your infantry.

Wish it was true... when the standard troop (not even the best... FW laugh at Dreads) in the game can kill you buy shooting you in the back with only one turn of shooting... you're not a very strong unit at that cost

 Lobukia wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

Also Dreadnoughts are not bad if you use them correctly. Are they amazing? No, however if you equip them with x2 Heavy Flamers each it really is a nasty combo and it will force your opponent to waste shots targetting them and ignoring your infantry.

Wish it was true... when the standard troop (not even the best... FW laugh at Dreads) in the game can kill you buy shooting you in the back with only one turn of shooting... you're not a very strong unit at that cost

Then don't have your back turned too it then.

Really its great as interceptor bait. especially with double heavy flamers sitting next to those fire warriors. then turn two bring out the rest of the guns.

Also if you go first the enemy cant get tank hunter for interceptor if using the toolbelt commander as he has to nominate which ability he wants to at the beginning of his movement? phase.