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http://postcalc.usps.com/

Pick your destination and estimate box size.

It isn't hard to see costs to ship OCONUS are not cheap.

And again, if they clearly state international shipping is at actual cost, to think international shipping subsidizes US shipping is just silly.

So over a million dollars in the first 24 hours and they'll go over 10,000 backers probably before lunch today. I'm sure it will feel like a slump compared to yesterday, but the rest of the campain will probably feel much slower.

I think it's interesting that right now the average backer is in at $113. There are only 750 backers at the $1 level, so I think most backers haven't started adding things on to their pledges yet. Once that starts to happen we could get some big jumps. The last campain averaged around $200 per backer, so even right now there could be another million dollars coming just from the current backers.

 Kirasu wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.


They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.

How much clearer does this need to be?

I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.

I know how insane it is, that's the reason I stopped shopping USA, because when you are forced to pay more in shipping than the product actually costs, time to shop closer to home, higher local prices or not.

 Kirasu wrote:

I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.

Agree. Pretty much this is my buying/selling relaity:
*I won't ship overseas
*I won't back international KSs due to the shipping
*Dealing with the UK is hard due to VAT
*I selectively buy from overseas DEPENDING on the shipping.
*If there is something I want from overseas, I find an importer.

I am genuinely confused how people expect hard shipping numbers for a product of variable size and could be 4 times the size and wight by the end of the KS. And I am also confused why they feel they shouldn't have to pay for shipping simply because amazon does it. I think we have all become addicted to amazon prime which makes 'shipping' sound like a dirty word.

No need for this.
Reds8n


US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.

ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).

In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.

 Kirasu wrote:
I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.

Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)

Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.

I wonder how Mantic manages to keep their shipping costs so low - they have free international shipping to both the UK and the US, and RoW shipping was only ever a maximum of $15 (and normally $5-10) - this was for DeadZone. The stuff at their $150 was not light either - rule book, cards, gaming mat, thick card box for the game etc.

I thought Mantic has US distributors? in which the shipping costs is spread out amount the various parties involved.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
No need for this.
Reds8n


US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.

ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).

In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.

I used to allow international bidders on my ebay auctions and a lot of times when I did I would offer free shipping to the US and international bidders would have to pay exact shipping. The reason is that it would take more effort for me to ship internationally. To ship locally I could just weigh it, print a label and leave it for the lettercarrier to pick up. With international I'd have to drive to the post office and fill out forms making it more of a hassle for me. I had no problem not discounting shipping for the international bidders due to that hassle.

Ebay now will actually handle the international shipping. That said it's insanely expensive for the purchaser. A small Sediiton War figure I sold for $15 cost over an additional $20 for international shipping. That said shipping a sprue to Russia myself using the ebay print out only cost about $12.

But yeah, internationally got expensive. I didn't know it had nearly tripled at first and it cost me quite a bit on the first few things I sold that I had set fixed shipping at.

Bioptic wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.

Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)

Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.

I wonder how Mantic manages to keep their shipping costs so low - they have free international shipping to both the UK and the US, and RoW shipping was only ever a maximum of $15 (and normally $5-10) - this was for DeadZone. The stuff at their $150 was not light either - rule book, cards, gaming mat, thick card box for the game etc.

Drifting a bit OT here, but I think it likely has something to do with Mr. Ronnie Renton's previous experience as GW's Global Marketing Director. He probably knows all the ins and outs of moving product between nations and has contacts to make that work that other companies, especially the smaller ones likely to use KS, don't have.

Back on topic, this should be interesting. I like the tactic Reaper is using to manage backer expectations and try to minimize the middle slump by doing the wave shipping pledge levels. Most KS campaigns have that curve in the middle because once the early birds are gone, there's no real incentive to pledge until the end. Now with it meaning your stuff will be here sooner, there's more push to at least get your place in line reserved, meaning that maybe they'll see a more even number of backers coming in throughout the campaign, even if there's still the huge surge of adjustments at the end still. It'd be very interesting to see that combined with backer-based stretch goals like Robotech and DeadZone had as well.

I'll be interested to see if more companies adopt this approach as it's very compelling on a variety of levels.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.

ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).

In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.

You are forgetting a few things. According to your theory, Reaper would be counting on a certain number of international backers to cover their costs. That is really a silly premise. The fact is international shipping is expensive and requires more labor/time per package to prepare customs forms and other paperwork. Add in additional costs to process claims for the increased rate of lost packages which occurs when shipping internationally (to include product replacement, packaging and additional shipping) and you can see there is additional risk shipping internationally, and risk is also cost. If amortizing those labor costs and risk is what you are talking about you may have a point, since they are not charging international backers for those costs, and instead only charging them actual shipping.

So not counting add ons, It seems like $150 is going to be the sweet spot for this KS? Core set plus expansion. Though I wonder if they will have more expansions since the current one is listed as expansion 1

If it gets high enough I've seen it somewhere there should be 3 total expansions. Honestly the sweet spot will probably still be $100 (due to sheer number of figures for cost) since the $50 expansions aren't going to get near the base value of half the normal pledge. That said picking one if it's got a good lump of large creatures could still be worthwhile.

I'm in for $100 right now. I'll probably add all dragons that aren't in an expansion and will definitely add the hill giants. The other add-ons have a model or two I like but since it's just 1-2 I can get it cheaper once it's produced.

Thanks for starting the thread! $150 is starting to tempt me.

I backed at $100 (Wave 3) and I plan to expand to maybe $200.

I like the material. The bendy nature sucks for a couple pieces, but it's nothing too bad. I'm using these mainly for D&D and for expanding my painting ability. It's fun to pickup something I have never painted (like an ogre or a bard) and go to town.

The detail isn't as crisp as a gw or resin model, but these are about $2 a piece. You will pay more for a gw bit.

 Kirasu wrote:
I thought Mantic has US distributors? in which the shipping costs is spread out amount the various parties involved.

They have a small number of US staff as well as distribution (e-figures handles all their US distro), and US dollar bank accounts.

They also handled EU distro for the secret weapon KS, so they've acted as local distributors themselves before as well. It's something they have a good handle on (CMoN has a good setup too, it seems).

Reaper doesn't seem too interested in the international market, and I don't think there's really much need for them to seek it out when they have more than enough domestic demand.

Doesn't stop me from wanting their product, though. :p

Interesting!

How did we spend your money in our last Kickstarter?
Update #30 · Oct 2, 2013 · 34 comments

We thought we would share this with you and who knows, it might even help someone with their own Kickstarter.

Please note there was money left over and that money was used for items not directly related to the KS like the new plastic injection machine, income taxes and infrastructure (shelves to store the remaining inventory and such).

That's a shocking level of transparency.

so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?

 CptJake wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.

ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).

In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.

You are forgetting a few things. According to your theory, Reaper would be counting on a certain number of international backers to cover their costs. That is really a silly premise. The fact is international shipping is expensive and requires more labor/time per package to prepare customs forms and other paperwork. Add in additional costs to process claims for the increased rate of lost packages which occurs when shipping internationally (to include product replacement, packaging and additional shipping) and you can see there is additional risk shipping internationally, and risk is also cost. If amortizing those labor costs and risk is what you are talking about you may have a point, since they are not charging international backers for those costs, and instead only charging them actual shipping.

Y = amortize the expenses on paying labor to fill out customs forms and insurance due to the abnormally high loss rate of international shipping.

So the profit margin on the kickstarter to put it in perspective was 1.5%. And the average shipping cost per backer was $24.44. Based on what it likely cost in bulk that means huge shipping costs incurred for shipping out of the US..

 bbb wrote:
That's a shocking level of transparency.

Reaper has always been good that way.

 ironicsilence wrote:
so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?

About that. I believe that they gave a small "Christmas Bonus" to the regular staffers following the calculations of cost. IIRC it was only a few thousand dollars each, which while nice - when you think about the amount of effort that various people had to put into it (missing vacations, long hours away from family during the campaign and again during several months worth of fulfillment) it wasn't much at all.

 ironicsilence wrote:
so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?

It turned a 54k profit and a ton of ready to sell miniatures with moulds and tooling.

Slight difference.

I jumped in to one of the open $1 spots. I'm going to up it by $60 for (4) Krakens (at least), and I'll add more if anything else tickles my fancy.

the point I was making on the profit amount was more around how small it was. I expected there to be more money floating around. Kind of under pins just how great a deal it was

Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.

im guessing that likely also including charges to move materials around the world, maybe even the cost to get new machines delivered? Reaper makes all there stuff outside of the country right? So they would have had to pay to get the stuff sent to the warehouse?

I dont think the miniatures look very nice at all. That obviously must just be me then as they're doing so well.

 Tamereth wrote:
Shipping fees are a worry, the import taxes I've paid on stuff like zombicide and the first bones were bad enough. If shipping ends up being $60 then suddenly the cost of the core set is doubled by the time it's delivered and the whole thing isn't such a great deal.
That being said I'm still in. I just wish reaper had a UK distributor for this stuff so that you could buy it in the shops over here. Is there even an online vendor that sells Bones in the UK?

SNM Stuff has just started to stock Reaper in the UK. No idea if you know them or not. I've gotten a pile of MIG washes and weathering powders and the like from them in the last year or two, and the guy is a nice bloke. He says he's also stocking Bones.

http://www.snmstuff.co.uk/dark-heaven-legends/?utm_source=General+newsletter&utm_campaign=8a9c8f4bcb-Oct13_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_239f69a9da-8a9c8f4bcb-3412517
http://www.snmstuff.co.uk/legendary-encounters/?utm_source=General+newsletter&utm_campaign=8a9c8f4bcb-Oct13_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_239f69a9da-8a9c8f4bcb-3412517

Extra kudos for "Dumbass Taxes" in the figures.

I knew the took a hit on shipping, but it looks like they calculated it pretty well, because even if they only made a 1.5% profit, they did get a lot of tooling done.