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Hi Dakkarites,

I thought I'd try building a list for empire which has captured my imagination for a Scarlet Crusade theme (for those of you who know them from the WoW series).

A few points before I begin:
- I don't want to include luminark/hurricanium/war alter as I am cautious of chariots in this edition, plus it will be hard to justify them from a themed perspective. Mostly anything else is ok.
- I'm looking for any sort of constructive feedback. Whilst it is themed, I would like it to be relatively competitive.
- For my first cut, I've gone alittle heavy on the heroes. Help me to optimise their loadouts (pick from A, B or C) and costs!

Lords

Arch Lector
A - Yu-gi-oh 'You just activated my trap card' build
shield, armour of destiny, van horstmann's speculum, biting blade
=204
OR
B - Tanky build
great weapon, armour of silvered steel, white cloak of ulric, potion of foolhardiness
=205
OR
C - 'MC Hammer 'You cant touch this' build
heavy armour, white cloak of ulric, fencer's blades, the other trickster's shard
=204

Battle Wizard Lord
level 4, opal amulet, dispel scroll
=240

--------------------------------------------
Heroes

Captain of the Empire
BSB, full plate armour, talisman of preservation, enchanted shield
=141

Warrior-Priest
heavy armour, shield, warhorse, barding
=85

Witch Hunter
A - 'Ned Kelly' build
brace of pistols, armour of meteoric iron
=105
OR
B - Ash Williams 'This is my BOOMSTICK' build
brace of pistols, ruby ring of ruin, gambler's armour, potion of speed
=105
OR
C - The Waco Kid 'fastest gun in the West' build
brace of pistols,sword of swift slaying (does the ASF apply to his pistols?), gambler's armour, potion of speed
=105

Master Engineer

--------------------------------------------
Core

Halberdiers x 39 [Captain]
Full Command
*Detachment*
Swordsmen x 20
TOTAL
=404

Empire Knights x 9 [Warrior-Priest]
Full Command, Inner Circle
Banner of Swiftness
=270

Crossbows x 19 [Battle Wizard Lord]

--------------------------------------------
Special

Greatswords x 28 [Arch Lector,Witch Hunter]
Full command
Standard of Discipline
=353

Great Cannon

Great Cannon

Pistoliers x 5
musician

--------------------------------------------
Rare

Helblaster Volley Gun [Master Engineer]


GRAND TOTAL
=2499



Your thoughts, comments and constructive feedback will be most appreciated! Thanks

This is a tough one, I don't have much experience with WoW at all, but I love the Empire! The bottom line is really this, IMO, whatever theme you are going for in the individual character, your lord and BSB (at a minimum) need to have ward saves. Additionally, remember that you can't use a parry save with a shield if you have a magic weapon. I think that Armor of Destiny is great, and combined with Dawnstone, is optimal protection. Armor of Meteoric Iron and Talisman of Preservation is also a great combo. As far as your Witch Hunter goes, steadfast and Grim resolve is a good combo with the Greatswords, so you want to keep him alive as long as possible. The banner on the Greatwords might be redundant, I would change it up and put, like, the Banner of Eternal Flame, 'cause you might find that unit against some interesting foes, it could come in handy. Fire attacks never hurt anyway. Also, I don't think the ASF rule of Sword of Swift Slaying applies to his pistols. Overall, it is an interesting build, but I think you have to decide if you want to just have fun, have fun AND win matches, or just win matches, and the gear you put on them will play a huge part in that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
meant to say "it never hurt you to have a unit with flaming attacks"...of course you want them to hurt! haha.

Very Interesting build. I would agree with Marshall and say you really want to have ward saves, i would try the Armor of Desitiny and with Daawnstone.

You ought to show me some pictures. Of all the time I spent on WoW I was a Forsaken. So it would be extremely interesting to see one of my former most mortal enemies.

Shadowbrand wrote:You ought to show me some pictures. Of all the time I spent on WoW I was a Forsaken. So it would be extremely interesting to see one of my former most mortal enemies.

I don't have any models yet...but I'll be using these guys from Mantic games as a base, they are sporting tabards so perfect candidates for the Scarlet Crusaders

Halberdeers/Swordsmen
http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/2961.1.1000.1000.FFFFFF.0.jpeg

Crossbowmen
http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/3086.1.1000.1000.FFFFFF.0.jpeg

Greatswords
http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/2956.1.1000.1000.FFFFFF.0.jpeg

Knights
http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/2955.1.1000.1000.FFFFFF.0.jpeg

Warrior-Priest
http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/3085.1.1000.1000.FFFFFF.0.jpeg

SpacePup1987 wrote:Very Interesting build. I would agree with Marshall and say you really want to have ward saves, i would try the Armor of Desitiny and with Daawnstone.

I've taken a second pass at kitting out the heroes. For the Arch lector and Witch Hunter, I have three ideas. Which of them do you think is best? Also, is my general or bsb more important to keep alive?

Marshall wrote:This is a tough one, I don't have much experience with WoW at all, but I love the Empire! The bottom line is really this, IMO, whatever theme you are going for in the individual character, your lord and BSB (at a minimum) need to have ward saves. Additionally, remember that you can't use a parry save with a shield if you have a magic weapon. I think that Armor of Destiny is great, and combined with Dawnstone, is optimal protection. Armor of Meteoric Iron and Talisman of Preservation is also a great combo. As far as your Witch Hunter goes, steadfast and Grim resolve is a good combo with the Greatswords, so you want to keep him alive as long as possible. The banner on the Greatwords might be redundant, I would change it up and put, like, the Banner of Eternal Flame, 'cause you might find that unit against some interesting foes, it could come in handy. Fire attacks never hurt anyway. Also, I don't think the ASF rule of Sword of Swift Slaying applies to his pistols. Overall, it is an interesting build, but I think you have to decide if you want to just have fun, have fun AND win matches, or just win matches, and the gear you put on them will play a huge part in that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
meant to say "it never hurt you to have a unit with flaming attacks"...of course you want them to hurt! haha.

Which unit would be best to place the banner of the eternal flame on? Greatswords?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so after having a further think about my options, I have a revised list (and still waiting for some feedback on the character loadouts!)

2500 Empire - The Scarlet Crusade
Lords

Arch Lector
(A)
shield, armour of destiny, van horstmann's speculum, Biting Blade
=204
OR
(B)
great weapon, armour of silvered steel, white cloak of ulric, potion of foolhardiness
=205
OR
(C)
heavy armour, white cloak of ulric, fencer's blades, the other trickster's shard
=204

Battle Wizard Lord
level 4, opal amulet, dispel scroll
=240

--------------------------------------------
Heroes

Captain of the Empire
BSB, full plate armour, talisman of preservation, enchanted shield
=141

Warrior-Priest
shield
=67

Master Engineer
=65

Witch Hunter
(A)
brace of pistols, armour of meteoric iron
=105
OR
(B)
brace of pistols, ruby ring of ruin, gambler's armour, potion of speed
=105
OR

--------------------------------------------
Core

halberdiers x 48 [captain,warrior-priest]
full command
*DETACHMENT*
swordsmen x 20
TOTAL=464

crossbows x 19 (wizard lord)
musician
=181

--------------------------------------------
Special

28 Greatswords [Arch Lector,Witch Hunter]
Full command
=338

Great Cannon

Great Cannon

--------------------------------------------
Rare

Helblaster Volley Gun [Master Engineer]


GRAND TOTAL
=2245 (255)

Now, what do I spend the last 255 points on? Here's some options...

A. (Combination of fast and hard hitting cav and some scouts for harrassing a flank)
+DemiGryph Knights x 3
+Huntsmen x 10
TOTAL=2499

B. (brute force intimidation and minor protection for warrior-priest)
+Steam Tank
+Charmed Shield to Warrior-Priest
TOTAL 2500

c. (combination of all three, cav, scouts and minor protection for warrior-priest)
Inner Circle Knights x 5
+Full command
Standard of Swiftness
+Huntsmen x 10
+Charmed Shield to Warrior-Priest
TOTAL=2500

i dont think theresenough troops
too many single guys
my guys are called scarlet knights
you got scarlet crusade from world of warcrafft

 blood ravens addiction wrote:
i dont think theresenough troops
too many single guys
my guys are called scarlet knights
you got scarlet crusade from world of warcrafft

"Not sure if trolling or English is your second language"
http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/211262-fry-not-sure_header.jpg

I said up front that the army was based on the Scarlet Crusade from WoW (scroll to the top).

Anyhow...yes, I feel like a number of people have commented that it is lacking in numbers.

How good are the huntsmen at delaying/harrassing?
My intention was that I could run a group of them to a flank and hold up any advancing force for a turn or two, extra time to shoot the cannons.

Also, there is a need for having some cavalry in the list as a 'fast response team' for any holes that appear in the battle lines. Reiksguard had some appear as they are stubborn. Are they any decent to use?

Could anyone offer an alternative to this list?

I've decided to rework the list.
- swapped characters around: using a general instead and running 2 cheap warrior-priests. seems cleaner.
- considering either 2 units of 10 huntsmen+muso, or dropping a unit+the muso from the remaining huntsmen, and picking up pistoliers x5+muso to run alongside demigryphs. This option is on the table as I'm not sure i'll have board room for 20 huntsmen (too few woods to place).

QUESTION: Better to use the 2x10+muso huntsmen units, or 1x10 and 1x5+muso pistoliers?

Lords

Grand Crusader, General of the Empire
[greatswords]
full plate armour, shield, talisman of preservation, sword of anti-heroes,
Dragonhelm, The Other Tricker's Shard
=207


Scarlet Oracle, Battle Wizard Lord (Light/Shadow)
[crossbows]
level 4, opal amulet, dispel scroll
=240

--------------------------------------------
Heroes

Scarlet Commander, Captain of the Empire
[halberdiers]
BSB, shield, armour of destiny
=137


Scarlet Paladin, Warrior-Priest
[greatswords]
heavy armour, shield
=69


Scarlet Paladin, Warrior-Priest
[halberdiers]
heavy armour, shield
=69


--------------------------------------------
Core (627)


Scarlet Guardsmen, Halberdiers x 48
full command
*DETACHMENT*
Scarlet Soldiers, Swordsmen x 20
TOTAL=464

Scarlet Marksmen, Crossbows x 17
musician
=163


--------------------------------------------
Special (1150)


Scarlet Knights, Greatswords x 38
Full command
=488

Scarlet Demigryph Riders, Demigryph Knights x 4
+musician
=242

Scarlet Hunters, Huntsmen x 10
+musician
=90

Scarlet Hunters, Huntsmen x 10
+musician
=90

Scarlet Cannoneers, Great Cannon
=120

Scarlet Cannoneers, Great Cannon
=120


--------------------------------------------
GRAND TOTAL
=2499
Modify message

Apart from my pistolier/huntsmen dilemma, I'm also not sure how to outfit the general. I've got several builds in mind:

1. great vs armies that run character deathstars
full plate armour, shield, talisman of preservation,
sword of anti-heroes, Dragonhelm, The Other Tricker's Shard


2.higher strength and option for defenses or bypass ward
full plate armour, shield, talisman of preservation, ogre blade,
AND
the other tricker's shard
OR
dragohelm, ironcurse icon


3. choice of fear or added dueling shenanigans
full plate armour, shield, talisman of preservation,
van horstmann's speculum,
AND
dragonhelm, warrior bane
OR
shrieking blade, enchanted shield (drop normal shield)



Any suggestions? I'm kind of at a loss for how to equip him.

From my short time as a Empire player i find that Armour of Destiny with dawn stone is the best outfit to keep heroes alive,
that said the BSB is more important for keeping alive then the general IMO, Demi knights are sick so always chose them.

Hope that any of this is helpful!