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That is true. I hardly ever see the assault in the 6th ed. Expensive cc units or upgrades arent usually worth it.
There is one exception - GH standard. If you need to assault a unit of Tau, Eldar or Gurard, then rerolling 1 during their overwatch will save You few wounds.

Play to your strengths. Longfangs can get up to 5 heavy weapons, you do have strong drop capability, and your rune priests are cheap and potent.

But nothing you build into your list is going to make the difference. I find everything in the space wolf codex to fall into the moderate to strongly annoying catagory. But that's just it, everything is annoying, nothing is overwhelmingly dangerous.

Avoid letting your opponent bring too much fire on any one unit. Keeep squads covering each other and stay clustered. Fireprisms and D-cannons are our largest source of nasty blasts, target those first. Alternatively you could drop a ring around your opponent and force them to stage a breakout. Put enough troops in the way, and something will get into CC. Just don't do it against Wraithlords/Knights. They squish marines and laugh.

Could you say something more about why you consider SW units just annoying?

Dessorag wrote:
--your rune priests are cheap and potent.

He may be potent, but he's not cheap. I cry a little every time I check the base cost for SM Librarian or Eldar Farseer.

He's a 100pt 2W model whose head will explode just as easily as any other marine's. And 50pts for another warp charge? Lovely. Can't wait for the new Codex to rid him of his "overpowered" abilities and bring his base cost in line with other basic psykers. There's just too much stigma left from 5th Ed that people other than SW players still seem to think a Rune Priest is a super HQ of some sort.

Anyway, as a long time SW player I have always regarded the Eldar as one of the hardest opponents to battle with. A well built list is almost impossible to crack without a bit of luck. I'd suggest trying to kill off his troops and try to weather the incredible dakka that's heading your way. You cannot challenge them in mobility nor firepower.

Weazel wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
--your rune priests are cheap and potent.

He may be potent, but he's not cheap. I cry a little every time I check the base cost for SM Librarian or Eldar Farseer.

He's a 100pt 2W model whose head will explode just as easily as any other marine's. And 50pts for another warp charge? Lovely. Can't wait for the new Codex to rid him of his "overpowered" abilities and bring his base cost in line with other basic psykers. There's just too much stigma left from 5th Ed that people other than SW players still seem to think a Rune Priest is a super HQ of some sort.

Anyway, as a long time SW player I have always regarded the Eldar as one of the hardest opponents to battle with. A well built list is almost impossible to crack without a bit of luck. I'd suggest trying to kill
off his troops and try to weather the incredible dakka that's heading your way. You cannot challenge them in mobility nor firepower.

Codex powers and the last true psychic defense make it worthwhile, but I do yearn for a 90pt ML2 Libby once in a while...

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Weazel wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
--your rune priests are cheap and potent.

He may be potent, but he's not cheap. I cry a little every time I check the base cost for SM Librarian or Eldar Farseer.

He's a 100pt 2W model whose head will explode just as easily as any other marine's. And 50pts for another warp charge? Lovely. Can't wait for the new Codex to rid him of his "overpowered" abilities and bring his base cost in line with other basic psykers. There's just too much stigma left from 5th Ed that people other than SW players still seem to think a Rune Priest is a super HQ of some sort.

Anyway, as a long time SW player I have always regarded the Eldar as one of the hardest opponents to battle with. A well built list is almost impossible to crack without a bit of luck. I'd suggest trying to kill
off his troops and try to weather the incredible dakka that's heading your way. You cannot challenge them in mobility nor firepower.

Codex powers and the last true psychic defense make it worthwhile, but I do yearn for a 90pt ML2 Libby once in a while...

Psychic defense is super useful against say, Necrons? Anyway, it's good and all but I wish it was an upgrade you could opt to leave out. If you can bring him to front line (within 24" of enemy psykers) and keep him alive then he's obviously pretty useful against the Eldar. Guide and Doom are just nasty, and it's lovely to deny them.

DP lists are pretty easy to defend against though, if you know what you are doing. Just castle up without leaving any gaps for pods to sneak into. Beware the crafty Eldar player.

If he castles, drop your pods so as to surround him. Then his mobility is gone and you can work into assault.

Eldar lack the numbers to castle around the tank. And it is better for them to start in the pods. Yet, as for guard or Nids, they can protect their tanks very well. 20 guardsman are cheap as dirt, and they can keep the Drop Pod away from a bunch of Leman Russ tanks. No more melta range any more

GET 2 SQUADS OF 10 TERMIES
GET 4 SQUADS GH WITH NO SPECAIL WEPS IN DROP PODS
GET 2 SQUADS GH WITH RUNE PRIEST IN ONE AND LOGAN GRIMNAR IN THE OTHER
GET 2 VINDICATORS
GET A RAZORBACK WITH 5 LONG FANGS
GET 2 THUDER CAV SQUADS WITH CANIS WOLFSBANE WOLFSBLUT WOLFSWUTS HIS FACE!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ooooooshhhhhhhhhh

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Araenion wrote:
Drop pods. It's not an easy win, but a good drop pod list can handle any army out there.

Except interceptor-heavy tau or Hellturkey-heavy CSM.

How is this comment even useful? Here I can play too.

"Whats the best body armor for small arms fire?"

"Well PPSS body armor is very good for most anyone."

"Unless you take a walk past a Barret heavy rifle!"

No crap. SW are a mid 5th edition army, OBVIOUSLY it's going to be tough beating the latest and greatest book AND not have any other bad match ups. Drop wolves can take on most lists, it's very difficult but its probably the best bet currently for the most enemies.

The grey hunter is still badass for the price, even in 6th. Shows how broken they were in 5th. It's just that Eldar guns make a mockery of them just as easily as Smurfs or BA. Frankly, the grey hunter is STILL undercosted compared to a tactical marine, even a 6th edition tactical marine.

Jefffar wrote:
If he castles, drop your pods so as to surround him. Then his mobility is gone and you can work into assault.

If they're running Wave Serpents or Jetbikes (the 2 most popular builds) then this will probably not cut their mobility at all... or you'll need an assload of drop podding units to try.

Take as many Rune Priests as you can. Their special 24" DtW on a 4+ messes up pretty much every Eldar Army.

I'd take MSU squads as well, since Eldar have units with irepower that can wipe out a MEQ unit a turn. If that unit is only five models, that's not so bad.

 The Shadow wrote:
Take as many Rune Priests as you can. Their special 24" DtW on a 4+ messes up pretty much every Eldar Army.

I'd take MSU squads as well, since Eldar have units with irepower that can wipe out a MEQ unit a turn. If that unit is only five models, that's not so bad.

I agree on the MSU bit, I tried it myself and with units that small it's almost a waste for Eldar to shoot at them. It also means you can afford TWC to kill Wave Serpents.

 blood ravens addiction wrote:
GET 2 SQUADS OF 10 TERMIES
GET 4 SQUADS GH WITH NO SPECAIL WEPS IN DROP PODS
GET 2 SQUADS GH WITH RUNE PRIEST IN ONE AND LOGAN GRIMNAR IN THE OTHER
GET 2 VINDICATORS
GET A RAZORBACK WITH 5 LONG FANGS
GET 2 THUDER CAV SQUADS WITH CANIS WOLFSBANE WOLFSBLUT WOLFSWUTS HIS FACE!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ooooooshhhhhhhhhh

What are you even talking about? This is easily a 2500 pt list. Most games are in the 1500-2000 range.

1.)Besides that, why would you ever not take specials on GH squads? Not only are they cheaper than in just about any codex, but the second one is free.

2.)3 tanks on the board in a list this big will be moved off the table in no time.

3.)TWC can be good but only in very specific builds. Eldar/Tau both have the firepower to wipe the floor with them in no time. Do you realize how many serpents an Eldar player could field for this many points? How many Riptides for Tau?

4.)I'm still so confused about your post.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Take as many Rune Priests as you can. Their special 24" DtW on a 4+ messes up pretty much every Eldar Army.

I'd take MSU squads as well, since Eldar have units with irepower that can wipe out a MEQ unit a turn. If that unit is only five models, that's not so bad.

I agree on the MSU bit, I tried it myself and with units that small it's almost a waste for Eldar to shoot at them. It also means you can afford TWC to kill Wave Serpents.

What it means is that a smart Eldar player won't bother to shoot at your ineffective 5 man units. A smart eldar player will push your TWC off the table with weight of fire in the first two shooting phases. Maybe the first if he plays a really mean list. TWC are too big to hide (dreadnought bases and twice as tall as a marine) and Eldar don't care if you have a cover save. One of their most effective weapons (the serpent shield) is AP - .

Threat-overload. That's what you need to do. Drop pods do work, but if your enemy survives first round with their mobility intact, you've lost.

Yesterday I played against an Ultramarine drop pod list featuring 71 marines with a following Eldar list(keep in mind both our lists could've been better, it was a friendly game):

Autarch with the Mantle and Shard, Farseer with 9 jetbikes and a Warlock, 2 MSU jetbike squads, 2 Wave Serpents, one with Fire Dragons, the other with 10 Dire Avengers, 5 Warp Spiders with Exarch, 3 War walkers with Scatterlasers and a Wraithknight with two heavy wraithcannons.

We played The Relic mission. Which is what made me lose, because I played that mission maybe twice. I basically doomed my large bike unit by taking the relic on T1. He got Warlord and First Blood and basically won the game right there, because how do you kill 14 squads of marines? In the end, he had about 8 marines in total plus his warlord by the end of the game, I had my Spiders, the WK and 4 Fire Dragons.

I could've played smarter, he probably could've played more conservatively also, but in the end, we had a blast. And moral of the story and why I'm talking about it here is that most Eldar lists just won't have the firepower to take down 50+ regular marines in 10+ squads. Especially if you can eliminate the biggest threats to your guys first turn.

astro_nomicon wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Take as many Rune Priests as you can. Their special 24" DtW on a 4+ messes up pretty much every Eldar Army.

I'd take MSU squads as well, since Eldar have units with irepower that can wipe out a MEQ unit a turn. If that unit is only five models, that's not so bad.

I agree on the MSU bit, I tried it myself and with units that small it's almost a waste for Eldar to shoot at them. It also means you can afford TWC to kill Wave Serpents.

What it means is that a smart Eldar player won't bother to shoot at your ineffective 5 man units. A smart eldar player will push your TWC off the table with weight of fire in the first two shooting phases. Maybe the first if he plays a really mean list. TWC are too big to hide (dreadnought bases and twice as tall as a marine) and Eldar don't care if you have a cover save. One of their most effective weapons (the serpent shield) is AP - .

Use Rhinos, Vindicators/Predators and/or BLOS cover to move the TWC up. Failing that, cast Stormcaller or (if you have it) the 4++ Divination power.

TWC can have 3++ on their own. The problem is, that they cannot hold the wolume of fire. And they are unable to hide behind a Rhino-based tank.

gausus wrote:
TWC can have 3++ on their own. The problem is, that they cannot hold the wolume of fire. And they are unable to hide behind a Rhino-based tank.

Pretty sure they can use the rhino mate.

Hi,

There are two probems here:

1. Yes, Rhino can provide cover-save for TWC, but it can't block LOS to them. So, you can still shoot at a TWC behind a rhino. Lets say 20 S5 shoots with BS5. And let's not forget the "ignore cover" rule that is very popular.

2. Rhinos in general are useless for a Space Wolves army. It takes at least a turn to get into shooting range with the enemy and you get 2 shoots max (plus a storm bolter). You can glan a Rhino to death with S5 shoots.

As a space wolves player i love pods. but you have to pick your targets and drop your pods carefully. 1500pt games i hate cause i just cant get that extra pods in, 2k are where its at cause i get pods and support.

If you are finding that you cant crack an eldar army with pods and grey hunters maybe look to forgeworld books. Some Conversion beamer tanks are mean! str10 Ap2 large blast... yep!

anyways i feel some people over look the power of a lone wolf... take that long fang squad you have give them a rhino or razor back, put your lone wolf and his puppies in the tank and as your pods are off making one hell of a mess the lone wolf can safely cross the board and eat anything in its path.

if your eldar enemy brings a wraith lord well you need a rune priest! because a force weapon is your greatest friend to multi-wound enemies. one fail and hes gone. i often times if i know my pod army will be facing a MC with multi wounds or somthing that i just need dead in one turn will put a rune priest either with a squad in a pod, a squad in a rhino, OR (my fav but i dont get alot) is a rune priest on a bike with swift claws... remember the first and second turn of the game your pods will be making a mess pulling your opponents attention off of whats cross the board. Personally if you bring pods, bring them TO DIE. do not invest heavy amount of points, go for numbers on this one, the more you have, the more you will stay allive for that next turn. so your pods are basically one shot wonders.

Also Forgeworld offers a very nasty dreadnaught drop pod, which allows the dreadnaught on the turn it arrived to stay in the pod! since the pod is open-top he can fire in any direction from inside his nice 12AV 3HP shell. So that long range multi melta can be nasty! then second turn he can assault out of his pod. Also first turn the pod arrives you he casts shround i believe on the entire pod as well as anything that is standing on its doors. so drop that pod in first turn, with some grey hunters who can stand on his pod for that nice cover save. (this means he has to choose where his ignore cover saves go... the mean guys running across the board... or the grey hunters/dreadnaught right infront of him).

honestly i have an awesome time destroying eldar, very rarely do i have a problem with them but you need to go all one way or another. Space wolves (with forgeworld) can out shoot eldar as long as you stay long ways away. because you use your rune priest to buff long fangs/tanks with rerolls and ignores cover now his jink and other eldar shenanigans are out the door. As well as that rune priest down range with pods could cast FNP, and so on.

I have had a kick taking a rune priest, long fangs with multimeltas/hvy bolter or hvy flamer and casting FNP, relentless, and it will not die on his squad and watch the long fangs just nom nom nom through enemy armour and troops thanks to split fire (hvy flamers are awesome!)

Lone wolves are great. Last weekend, my lw with tda, th/ss ate Kharn and took out the remains of his berserker squad. Admittedly, I got lucky, but it was awesome nonetheless.

I also seem to have some luck with rhinos and not so much with pods.

Lone Wolves are great. If You are not playing a kill point based scenario, then they are even better.

Lone Wolves do great with TH/SS, and a fenrisian wolves. The wolf provide them with an extra wound, and helps get to the charge - sometimes 2" are crucial.

Other than monsters hunting, Lone Wolves turn out to be great in tank hunting. Last game my Lone Wolf charged 2 Leman Russ tanks and destroyed both of them.

gausus wrote:
Lone Wolves are great. If You are not playing a kill point based scenario, then they are even better.

Lone Wolves do great with TH/SS, and a fenrisian wolves. The wolf provide them with an extra wound, and helps get to the charge - sometimes 2" are crucial.

Other than monsters hunting, Lone Wolves turn out to be great in tank hunting. Last game my Lone Wolf charged 2 Leman Russ tanks and destroyed both of them.

Even in kill points games they don't yield a kill point to your opponent. In fact they give kill points to your opponent if they are not dead by the end of the game

astro_nomicon wrote:

gausus wrote:
Lone Wolves are great. If You are not playing a kill point based scenario, then they are even better.

Lone Wolves do great with TH/SS, and a fenrisian wolves. The wolf provide them with an extra wound, and helps get to the charge - sometimes 2" are crucial.

Other than monsters hunting, Lone Wolves turn out to be great in tank hunting. Last game my Lone Wolf charged 2 Leman Russ tanks and destroyed both of them.

Even in kill points games they don't yield a kill point to your opponent. In fact they give kill points to your opponent if they are not dead by the end of the game

thats why i love them in kill points games, they dont give your enemy a kill point if he dies, only if he lives! Some games have come down to the wire and its 1vp away, or a tied game, and ive seen opponents back off of attacking a lone wolf trying to keep him alive its funny.

I like the idea of Lone Wolves but I've yet to have success with them. Those of you using them, what context are you running them in? Are they running up the field along side rhinos? Are they hoofing it to catch up with your drop pod force?

When I run SW I always go all drop pod, and they just don't seem to make sense in those lists but if any of you have experience to share on the matter I am open to suggestion.

I'm not sure if wolves have access to divination put I played eldar the other day and I took a a devastator lascannon squad with a librarian with prescience and rolled misfortune they made a mockery of the serpents one a turn every turn

Lone wolves are good in a Drop Pod list. They are easy to hide, especially in a night fight. Even if they are shoot at, they tend to survive it very well. I like to take fenrisian wolves for extra wound or two.

As for Divination, yes, space wolves have divination. It works great. The setup I like best is Prescience and Misfortune or Perfect Timing. They both work great when cast on a Long Fangs squad.
But there are still SW:Codex powers and they are more than good. Lightning, Hurricane and Tempest wrath pose a threat to any Eldar/Dark Eldar army that relies on a skimers and bikes.

Lone Wolves can't take a Drop Pod and because Drop Pods are dedicated transports they don't get to ride in anyone else's pod either.