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As per page 21, paragraph 3 (IIRC) we need line of sight, correct? LoS being from the models eyes, as it says on page 8, LoS 2nd paragraph.
Is that correct and clear?
I ask because I bought this up in a game the other day and was told that I am "interpreting page 8 incorrectly".
I had this conversation with the store manager a few days earlier and he said to me that you DO need LoS as described, so an assault from behind would result in no overwatch being fired.

For infantry, it's obvious that they intended LoS to be 360 degrees (ie regardless of facing).

So while you do need LoS to overwatch, assaulting from behind doesn't make you safe.

Yeah, non-vehicles are limited by firing arcs like vehicles are, if you can draw a straight, unimpeded line from the model's head to any point of the target you can shoot.

I get what you are saying, but it does say

For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace a straight, unblocked line from its eyes to any part of the target's body (the head, torso, arms or legs).

and overwatch follows all normal rules for shooting including range, LoS etc.

If you could draw LOS normally, through normal shooting, you can do so during Overwatch

 Ond Angel wrote:
I get what you are saying, but it does say

For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace a straight, unblocked line from its eyes to any part of the target's body (the head, torso, arms or legs).

and overwatch follows all normal rules for shooting including range, LoS etc.

Okay, you're being silly.

How then do you think a Hive Guard can shoot anything? There are literally no eyes on that thing.

You might want to read page 10. Specifically the Turning and Facing section. "Whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge..."

Overwatch doesn't place any additional restrictions on which direction a model can fire.

clively wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:
I get what you are saying, but it does say

For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace a straight, unblocked line from its eyes to any part of the target's body (the head, torso, arms or legs).

and overwatch follows all normal rules for shooting including range, LoS etc.

Okay, you're being silly.

How then do you think a Hive Guard can shoot anything? There are literally no eyes on that thing.

You might want to read page 10. Specifically the Turning and Facing section. "Whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge..."

Overwatch doesn't place any additional restrictions on which direction a model can fire.

Thank you, I didn't see that part. I wasn't being silly, I was trying to see whether the store owner was right or if some of the other guys were.
We couldn't find anything and I was acting on what a guy who works for GW had said to me and a few others.

Plus you are allowed to draw LoS through models in your own unit as if they were not there. The model firing is in his own unit so you can start at his eyes and look in any direction without models in his unit stopping LoS, including his own head.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Plus you are allowed to draw LoS through models in your own unit as if they were not there. The model firing is in his own unit so you can start at his eyes and look in any direction without models in his unit stopping LoS, including his own head.

I didn't actually think about that, either.
Thank you.
^_^

The only time this should come up or be a problem is when playing against tau and being out of sight of the models that can perform the 6" supporting fire overwatch, From how we play if the supporting unit can't see the unit that is assualting they cant overwatch.

^ I also dont know if this is correct but it makes sence to me.

That is the correct way to play Supporting Fire, Guitarquero.

When I said "unimpeded line from the model's head' I meant "from the eyes, or in the case of helmeted/eyeless models from where the eyes should/would be, unimpeded by anything apart from models from the same unit, including the model's own head."

rigeld2 wrote:
For infantry, it's obvious that they intended LoS to be 360 degrees (ie regardless of facing).

I think it's more than simply intended. While this passage is in the Movement phase, it seems RAW that Infantry Units (which is what the Move Phase describes) have a 360d. LOS

BRB 10, Turning and Facing wrote:
Whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge into combat later in the turn...

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I think it's more than simply intended. While this passage is in the Movement phase, it seems RAW that Infantry Units (which is what the Move Phase describes) have a 360d. LOS

BRB 10, Turning and Facing wrote:
Whilst the direction a model is facing won't impact its ability to shoot or charge into combat later in the turn...

That's not a rule in itself; it's far too general. It's simply an indication that facing shouldn't matter once you get to the shooting phase... but it's up to the shooting rules to dictate how that actually works.

They don't. The closest you get is with the aforementioned assumption that models can look through the back of their own head due to being in their own unit. It's a clumsy, horribly written piece of rules, and without it actually being specified that models should be able to peer through their own skull, or just be assumed to have a 360 degree arc of sight, it's rather counter-intuititive, and completely out of sync with the way GW have done LOS in every other edition of the game.

it is worth saying that if you can charge it, it can shoot you.

you cannot delcare a charge agasint a target you cannot see. so it really is a case of I can't see you you can't see me

 nutty_nutter wrote:
it is worth saying that if you can charge it, it can shoot you.

you cannot delcare a charge agasint a target you cannot see. so it really is a case of I can't see you you can't see me

Only the models that can see me can shoot. If I can only see one model in the target unit (and vice versa) guess how many can shoot Overwatch?

It's entirely possible to have one model see another without the other seeing it thanks to intervening terrain.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
it is worth saying that if you can charge it, it can shoot you.

you cannot delcare a charge agasint a target you cannot see. so it really is a case of I can't see you you can't see me

This is incorrect. You could have a situation where the charger(s) can see the chargee but not the other way around. In that case you can't overwatch.

It would be rare but it is possible.

Baktru wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
it is worth saying that if you can charge it, it can shoot you.

you cannot delcare a charge agasint a target you cannot see. so it really is a case of I can't see you you can't see me

This is incorrect. You could have a situation where the charger(s) can see the chargee but not the other way around. In that case you can't overwatch.

It would be rare but it is possible.

The only time I can see this coming into play is with models that ignore cover. Not sure id deny someone their overwatch even then (too much grey in the rules).

I've done it plenty of times. All you need is 1 member of the charging unit to see a part of a model from the unit they want to charge. "My Ymgarl can see one of your Guardsmen's legs, I declare a charge". The Guardsmen in that scenario couldn't see the charging Ymgarl, due to not having eyes on his leg and the wall of the ruin blocking line of sight to his head.

I've almost had it once with a blob of Termagants charging a Monstrous creature through a doorway. One of my termagants could clearly see the leg of the MC throughthe doorway. The MC couldn't see any part of any of the termagants.

I'd agree it's very uncommon, but definitely possible.

It's really not hard to set up the situation, especially if you have ruins. I had wyches I wanted to charge at fire warriors, but there were several other squads around. Thankfully my guys were on the other side of a ruin wall. I moved one wych so he could see one fire warrior. The one guys got to take his over watch shot, killed the one wych, but the rest were still able to charge since there was LOS when the charge was declared.