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Just picked up my first eldar flyer and as I am relatively inexperienced with flyers I thought I'd ask for some help.
Around what size of battles do flyers start earning their place in the FOC? My brain seems to be trying to convince me that flyers take up too many points to be in say a 500 point game to make sense. But what about 750? 1000? 1500? Is there a "line" that any of you have as a personal preference for "when to use a flyer"?

As for which variant to use, I see a lot of people talking about how great the Crimson Hunter is as an anti-tank and anti-flyer unit, which seems pretty obvious to me. But do you guys ever take the hemlock? It seems to be more of an anti-infantry vehicle. If you don't take it, why not specifically? If so, then what made you consider it over the Eldar's other anti-infantry options?

I would use it as soon as possible, if it isn't handicapping you by forcing you to remove something else that you need. Probably around 750 points.

The Crimson Hunter is a pretty solid flier, it packs a hell of a punch but requires more finesse than the AV12 Heldrake, Vendetta and Stormraven. The low AV means you have to stay on the fringes of enemy AA range, and if you are using more than one then you need to invest in some reserve control as coming in first against other fliers is a big issue for them. This imo is the main limitation on using them in terms of points, you need to be able to fit in the Autarch/Comms relay to support them, not just their base cost, so realistically I wouldn't look at including them until 1k. They don't show up in netlists because they aren't that easy to use (and both Serpent spam and Warp Spider spam can deal with other fliers pretty well already), but they can definitely fill a hole in Eldar lists if needed. I've found Jetcouncil lists do quite well with them, the Council can clean up anything on the ground, but just needs some help with fliers and punching through armour.

The Hemlock on the other hand is a terrible unit. Its best/most valuable (i.e why its so expensive) ability is the Terrify psychic power that it gets. However it can't cast this the turn it arrives from reserves, and it requires the enemy to be relatively close to you at the START of the movement phase. This would require you to move right into someones face and somehow live through a round of shooting with an AV10 vehicle with no extra defensive gear, which is not going to happen. That leaves you with 2 low strength small blasts (why they are called Heavy D Scythes I don't know, they are flat out worse than the normal D Scythe), and the re-roll morale ability (which again requires you to be on top of someone to use). If the Heavy D Scythes were torrent versions of the normal D Scythe then you would see them being used (basically they would be a paper Heldrake with some added morale related abilities) or if they could use Terrify the turn they arrive they would be useful.

That's a pretty great explanation Powerguy. I think it gives me a pretty good idea of when/where/how to use the Crimson Hunter, and when/where/how never to use the Hemlock (though I have to say.... I'm probably going to use it in some casual games in the hopes that it gets that one in a million chance and wrecks someone's day, so I have a great story to tell.)

Thanks a lot!

In all honest the best way I have seen Crimson Hunters utilized is when you take more then one. They are so fragile that they wont last long, especially to interceptor fire and usually only get one turn of shooting before being blown out of the sky (bolters for example brought one down in the last tournament). Taking more then one gives your opponent more targets to shoot and more importantly because they pack so much punch, allows you to potentially do a lot more damage once they come in.

If your group allows Forgeworld I would consider the Nightwing as a next step. Other than that, go with the Crimosn Hunter, personally I think the exarch upgrade is a good investment. +25% Damage output for a 12.5% cost increase is proprely priced upgrade.

The exarch upgrade is better than just damage output. The better precision shot makes it an excellent sniper unit.
Consider changing the guns for Starcannons, and you get 2 more shots per turn.

Vector Dancer lets you zip along a 18" line on your table-edge, so keeps out of range of a lot of small-arms fire. If something threatens it, dive off-table to come on elsewhere later on.

 Skinnereal wrote:
The exarch upgrade is better than just damage output. The better precision shot makes it an excellent sniper unit.
Consider changing the guns for Starcannons, and you get 2 more shots per turn.

Vector Dancer lets you zip along a 18" line on your table-edge, so keeps out of range of a lot of small-arms fire. If something threatens it, dive off-table to come on elsewhere later on.

You want the Crimson Hunter first and foremost for Air Superiority, precision shots is of minor importance really. While the star cannons will remove more hull points from AV 10 than the BLs will I wouyld never recomend chaning them. Always go with the BLs

tedurur wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
The exarch upgrade is better than just damage output. The better precision shot makes it an excellent sniper unit.
Consider changing the guns for Starcannons, and you get 2 more shots per turn.

Vector Dancer lets you zip along a 18" line on your table-edge, so keeps out of range of a lot of small-arms fire. If something threatens it, dive off-table to come on elsewhere later on.

You want the Crimson Hunter first and foremost for Air Superiority, precision shots is of minor importance really. While the star cannons will remove more hull points from AV 10 than the BLs will I wouyld never recomend chaning them. Always go with the BLs

The exarch's precision shots can be amazing though against vehicle squads and against the constant allied IGfor a squad of 2-3 vandettas.... They happen alot around here

if you know you are going to face like a buddy with some serious anti air, use the hunter. upgrade it for exarch so that those needed shots dont miss.

then you just have to control it right.

Nice, a lot of good info here, thanks guys! I never even thought of going back and fourth on my own table edge. That's a fantastic tactic to avoid weapons fire. Seems like a Crimson Hunter Exarch with reserves manipulation to give me time to control some anti-air is the way to go. I can't wait to try it out!

Only use it if you need anti air and you will not take bastion or quad cannon. I personally play bastion. I have found it is one of the ways to make rangers livable. throw some reapers on top with a icarus and people get very scared. The plane only works on the long sided not wide. I have lost it within 2 turns every time. That said in those two turns one plane or tank died every turn. At av10 everything can glance it. The bastion lasts significantly long and does the same thing for less.

I think its an amazing air superiority fighter, yes its made of paper but as long as you either kill or stay away from intercepter fire you get the first shot. In my meta my opponents only run 1 flier, Its almost like a limit we imposed to keep the game still fun.

One the enemy fliers are out of the way you will want to just hug the table edge and make sure you are out of range of any high rate of fire gun that has decent strength. The exarch will be able to kill a vehicle or put dents in termie squads reliably after he owns the sky.

An Autarch is recomended if you can as being able to get him when you want him is key. If you hug your table edge helldrakes cant touch him either so this makes him decent against those but any other flier you face against its important to come in after him so you can get shots off on him.

We played a Apocalypse game on Saturday and the two Crimson Hunters blew away 4 Valkyries