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I am in the midst of painting up a bunch of IG, and I'm trying to plan out my platoons.

I want to do a "fluff" type list, not going with flyers, and I want my force to be at least 1/2 if not 2/3 foot soldiers.

I'm thinking 2 platoons with different styles

Platoon 1
PCS
Commander
Heavy Flamer
2 Flamers
Platoon Standard
In Chimera -**Question* I want to put a SWS with 3 more flamers into this Chimera... is that allowed?

Infantry Squad 1 and 2
Sgt w/ BP and MB
Flamer
8 infantry
Each squad in their own chimera

This platoon will be advancing up the board to claim objectives and tie up the enemy.

Platoon 2- Siege based
PCS
Commander
3 Flamer
Heavy Flamer

3 Infantry squads
Sgt w. BP
Grenade Launcher
Heavy Bolter Team

5 Heavy weapons squads
2 Lascannon squads
3 Autocannon squads

I'll probably put this platoon behind the defense line.

Thoughts on this? I really don't want to have an army that just sits behind ADL's and blast stuff across the table.. seems so boring. I also don't want to spend a ton of time and money on an army that sucks.... so I want something fun to play, and competitive without just trying to win every game with ridiculous amounts of vehicles.... Any thoughts are appreciated.

VanHallan wrote:
I am in the midst of painting up a bunch of IG...

I am sorry to hear that. Welcome to the wonders of chain painting IG hordes.

VanHallan wrote:

Platoon 1
PCS
Commander
Heavy Flamer
2 Flamers
Platoon Standard
In Chimera -**Question* I want to put a SWS with 3 more flamers into this Chimera... is that allowed?

You cannot put two different units in the same transport.

Have you thought about using Al'Rahem (or own substitute version) to give outflank to this unit? This helps them close.

Don't take heavy flamers as they are a horrible waste of points. Don't take a platoon standard as it is not only a waste of points but a slot. A 4x flamer unit would be much more effective.

VanHallan wrote:

Infantry Squad 1 and 2
Sgt w/ BP and MB
Flamer
8 infantry
Each squad in their own chimera

This platoon will be advancing up the board to claim objectives and tie up the enemy.

These units are okay. I would personally drop the pistol on the commander and only add the melta bombs if I had no use for the points. You may want to consider a meltagun instead of a flamer but that is a meta dependent question.

VanHallan wrote:

Platoon 2- Siege based
PCS
Commander
3 Flamer
Heavy Flamer

Again a heavy flamer is just wasteful. Is this supposed to be kept back for a counter charge unit? For units such as this I usually mount them in vendettas. If you have an interest in vendettas I would get 2 and put the 4x flamer PCS's into them. You just gain so much.

VanHallan wrote:

3 Infantry squads
Sgt w. BP
Grenade Launcher
Heavy Bolter Team

5 Heavy weapons squads
2 Lascannon squads
3 Autocannon squads

I will let you know a secret of IG; HWS are terrible. I hope in the new dex they change this but as it is now you will loose all your killing power in 1-2 turns and be left without recourse. You are much better served by moving your killing power onto artillery either the vehicle mounted type or the heavy artillery carriages in forgeworld (if you play forgeworld I highly recommend this).

The IS will catch a lot of flack from posters for their loadout and you probably should think about melta guns and/or lascannons in the IS as this protects the scary guns from getting wiped off the board. Running these units naked is also entirely viable as they will usually be used as sacrifices to protect the important stuff.

If you want to put cheap heavy weapons on HWT then the best way to run HWS is to put HB or mortars on them so at least they are cheap. Overall I would not recommend it.

Don't forget to take your CCS to gives orders to your gunline. I would recommend a banner on this unit to give a morale reroll. They can also shoot the quadd gun you should be taking with your ADL.

VanHallan wrote:

I'll probably put this platoon behind the defense line.

Very good.

VanHallan wrote:

Thoughts on this? I really don't want to have an army that just sits behind ADL's and blast stuff across the table.. seems so boring. I also don't want to spend a ton of time and money on an army that sucks.... so I want something fun to play, and competitive without just trying to win every game with ridiculous amounts of vehicles.... Any thoughts are appreciated.

You can make a very effective foot IG list. The thing about it is that you need to use SM allies and/or forgeworld units to help with the deficit of mobility and firepower that IG foot lists always experience against any other army.

I second that. However instead of heavy bolters for the HWS, id use autocannons. More bang for the buck.

Yes autocannons over heavy bolters as they hurt all the same targets and MORE! Otherwise I would not go with HWS. s6+ shots insta kill a base and since they are LD7 they are pretty much going to fail almost half the time.

What is a good Idea is to put the HWT's in with infantry squads, these are more so your defensive squads though. Ways I would equip is melta gun and lascannon, the weapons go for the same targets except if the enemy gets close you get a deadlier melta gun. I would recommend plasma and autocannon as well or even if you want to stay really cheap and just spam more guys go with auto cannon and grenade launcher.

As other mentioned a PCS should be equiped with either 1 HWT to sit back and order FRFSRF on other squads and provide more long range support, OR what I believe is best is give them x4 flamers. I use them as a defensive counter charge units. Basically when the enemy charges my lines and kills a 10 an squad of guard they eat 4 flamers back plus whatever other squads decide to shoot.


Also your forward Platoon thats rushing up the board to "tie" up enemy units wont do much. Vets with x3 melta or x3 plasma are the best choices for chimeras but if you insist on the platoons I would recommend grenade launcher if your staying cheap and fun, or melta gun/plasma gun as those are about you best weapons to use. Also standard 10 man guard squads will not tie up any units. chimeras also dont have very durable armor so once your opponent gets close those chimeras are about good as dead and once they blow up, I believe statistically half your squad will die. Which means there really is nothing left. If using mech platoons you basically are going to throw them at a forward objective and pretty much hope that your back field firesupport does enough damage to even give them a slight chance.

Remember how you kit you platoons is also based around everything else you have in the list. So if you dont mind sharing how many points yoiu plan on playing and what else will you be bringing?

Thanks a ton. This is really helpful stuff. Overall goal is to have a solid 1500 point IG force and I'll ally them with 500-1000 points of blood angels which I already have.. Gonna use the death company and other assault oriented forces to add a nasty punch to this force.

The overall theme of this army is that they are valhallans painted like eddie van halen's guitars... there's a VH song called blood and fire that I want to incorporate into the fluff of the army. Lots of flamers and burning going on. And of course the Blood Angels allies fit into this as well..

I also like the idea of adding a lot of melt guns to represent Eddie's face melting guitar solos. Would only take Plasma guns in the CCS and possibly another vet squad just to have options, but that is down the road after i finish painting the army 15 years from now.

So anyways...

Dropping the HF... honestly thought 20 pts was steep and besides that the models I'm using are not compatible with the HF bits while regular flamers fit like a glove. Perfect.

So here's the new plan, using the models I have.
gonna ditch the chimera platoon approach altogether. makes total sense that they will not tie anything up and die in an explosions.

2 platoons
4 flamers in each PCS
3 squads each, one platoon has HB's the other has LC's- will upgrade HB to AC once I get my models together... no effect on points.

Probably going to run mostly Grenade Launchers but will keep an eye out for more melta gun models(im using metal valhallans for those)


HQ-
CCS
Commander
Standard
3 Plasma Guns

Troops
Platoon 1
PCS
4 flamers
Commander

PIS 1,2,3,
Sgt w/ bp
Lascannon
GL(for now)

Platoon 2
PCS
4 flamer
Commander

PIS A,B,C,
Sgt w/ BP
GL(for now)
HBT(for now)

Veterans
3 melta
in chimera

Now for the fun stuff....

2 Hellhound tanks -to accompany the vets up the board and burn stuff up. I like the sounds of the chem cannon but plan to have hull magnetized for any variant.

1 manticore to sit back and crush things with extreme prejudice

Will probably add 2 leman russ' to the army once I play a few games and determine which variant best suits the needs of the list.. any feedback welcome.

I really don't want to use vendettas. I don't like the idea of flyers in my guard army. Call me crazy, but that's just how I feel.

I def plan on using orders for this for this force. I will probably use the Vets, hellhounds, blood angels, and maybe another chimera w/ stormtroopers in it take care of the moving and otherwise just play it smart behind an ADL like I originally said i didn't want to. It only makes sense and I think I'll have enough to work with out front between the above mentioned units.


So that's a general overview of what I have envisioned. Any and all feedback is extremely appreciated.

What you might consider is in one of the newer Imperial Armors - the Assualt Brigade list - infantry platoons gain pretty much endless respawns when the entire units destroyed they respawns immediately the following turn - Forlorn Hope for games at or above 1500 platoon layout for that is 1 PCS and 2-6 inf squads but they are all WS 4 immune to leadership test by shooting and regroup at normal leadership when near an officer -- something you might want to seriously consider if you want mainly infantry and no flyers .....

The list is looking better. Its hard to have a guard force do multiple rolls but you dont want to separate your force. Separating your force just means its easier for your opponent to take out units one at a time before the make the killing blow.

Some helpful hints:

The chem variant of the hellhound is not that great, yea it wounds on 2's and is ap3 but it doesnt have the torrent rule like the hell hound. That means you have to drive up and get into melta and assault range which measn the tank should usually get 1 shot off and its dead, the hellhound can move 12 inches and still fire its torrent another 12 inches out so it can easily out maneuver most units that assault or have melta weapons, yea ap4 sucks but its a lot safer than a 1 trick pony.

In your army if your running a manticore you are probably better off using all artillery. In the current meta and edition the artillery variants are better than their russ counter parts. Colossus are amazing as they are ap3 but if you want a heavy hitter basilisks are cheap and not bad, some like the griffon for their accurate bombardment and are decent for their troop hunting.

Also if your CCS is going to be sitting back I would even recommend them taking a lascannon instead of plasma as they have bs4 and it will help with long range anti tank fire.

Also if you try to add a mobile element like vets in chimeras I would at least try to get 3 chimera vet squad as its a decent amount.

Hope this advice helps.

@ Kasrkin - way over my head man, but worth a look later on... I'm just getting the feel for 6th edition not really sure how those specialty rules work but until I get the hang of the basics I will neglect Imperial Armor... not bad food for thought though, and I appreciate it.

@ tankboy, Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I tend to go for variety and I am gathering that is not a great plan in 6th edition.

I'm going to have the option of using all the varients of hellhounds, that's one major draw for me on the tank. I also feel like the LR and Vendetta/Valkeries are too obvious and overdone, and I want to do something a little different with my army.

I do like the idea of a LCT in the CCS, however my fear is it will draw fire to the squad and I really want orders going out to the platoons. Maybe the CCS is gona get aimed at regardless... not really sure how that goes.

Yes, I will definetly be adding more artillery to the army, but felt like the manticore was a great place to start. I like the basilisk, but honestly the range scares me because I feel like most games will move opponents well within the minimum range on it and then what?? Will cross that bridge when i get to it.

On the idea of 3 vet squads in 3 chimeras... I agree that having one has not worked so far. It always gets destroyed along with the squad before meltas are even in range.

-What about 1 vet squad w/ 3 meltas, 1 w/ 3 plasmas, and the 3rd chimera housing stormtroopers? I feel like AP3 is underrated for these guys... no?

I also wanted to roll the vets up behind the 2 hellhound.. I feel like 2 hellhounds would get most of the enemy fire so the vets could make it across better. The more the merrier i suppose.

Basically If I can have 2 platoons and a CCS behind the ADL I'll be moving up the board with veteran squads and hellhounds... I like the sounds of that. Add in 500-1000 points of blood angels and I think this would be a pretty scary force to fight.

I would not recommend dropping the chimera platoon idea altogether. If you do use it though make sure to have Al'Rahem lead it because that much armor outflanking is hard to ignore and with 12 front armor if properly set up not easy to kill fast. If nothing else chimeras make cheap body guards to your real tanks to help protect your hell hounds and leman russ by acting as mobile cover.

As for las cannons heavy weapons teams I cannot say I like them. To much points on to little guys who die to easy. If you need to kill that kind of heavy armor that a lascannon is called for find a better method of killing it at range. I love auto cannon HWS because they have range and more shots well being cheapish and they can at least glance everything with an armor of less then 14.

On another note guard can have a hard time functioning if your opponent has an obvious number of threats that need to die. So use redundancy whenever you can to help keep things alive. If you only have a single melta vet squad in a chimera and I can see the rest of your army will have trouble killing my tanks without it I will make sure that that tank dies. If your Hell hounds are the only real threat to my infantry horde I will kill them fast. If you will only have a single melta vet chimera I would recommend Harker for it so they can outflank or infiltrate with it to help get close for that strike you need.

Also Guardsman Marbo has rarely done me wrong and Almost always makes his points back with his demo charge.

Also Minimum ranges have been done away with in 6th edition so do not worry about that for your arty. You just scatter full without BS if within minimum now. That means the colossus can now fire right in front of it.

As far as artillery is concerned if you're starting with a Manticore then I'd suggest filling up the rest of your slots with Colossi. They anihilate anything in the Troops category.

Although if you're hurting for points using multiple Griffins can do a similar job, even tho your backfield turns into a parking lot.

FYI Manticores and Basilisks can move and shoot like MBTs.


Also, Marbo owns your opponents face. Just think long and hard about where your enemy has units with interceptor.

VanHallan wrote:


I'm going to have the option of using all the varients of hellhounds, that's one major draw for me on the tank. I also feel like the LR and Vendetta/Valkeries are too obvious and overdone, and I want to do something a little different with my army.

I do like the idea of a LCT in the CCS, however my fear is it will draw fire to the squad and I really want orders going out to the platoons. Maybe the CCS is gona get aimed at regardless... not really sure how that goes.

Camo Cloaks and sitting them behind the ADL (with your Commander or a Marine manning the gun) will help keep them alive. I second the Lascannon on the CCS and I am also a fan of the Banner. At that point the last Vet can either be a Plasma gun guy, naked for a 'Look out Sir!' moment or have a Vox pack. Voxes are normally a waste of points, but for your list and having only 2 blobs, it might be worth it just for a re-roll. For 30pts, I just can't suggest a medic, specially for a Toughness 3 unit. Don't be afraid to throw in a Master of Ordnance in the CCS for another pie-plate, just remember he has to fire on the same target the Lascannon shoots at (and vice versa).

VanHallan wrote:
Yes, I will definetly be adding more artillery to the army, but felt like the manticore was a great place to start. I like the basilisk, but honestly the range scares me because I feel like most games will move opponents well within the minimum range on it and then what?? Will cross that bridge when i get to it.

To be honest, Cover saves are becoming a big thing. Finding ways to get rid of cover saves and killing infantry is one of the things IG are great at. Colossus shots ignore cover, are str 6 and AP 3 with a large blast. Guard can produce a ton of direct fire and have Orders that can ignore cover as well, but having 2-3 pie plates to slap down a turn can be pretty nasty. To me, a Colossus is the arty of choice right now.

VanHallan wrote:
On the idea of 3 vet squads in 3 chimeras... I agree that having one has not worked so far. It always gets destroyed along with the squad before meltas are even in range.
-What about 1 vet squad w/ 3 meltas, 1 w/ 3 plasmas, and the 3rd chimera housing stormtroopers? I feel like AP3 is underrated for these guys... no?

The problem with Chimeras is that you have to spam them to make them effective. The only other option with Chimeras is having other things that would draw more fire than the Chimeras (normally Leman Russ tanks). It is a slippery slope... I think your best use for them is to have your PCSs go 4 melta guns and put a hull heavy flamer on the Chimera. Then put 1-2 more squads in Chimeras with a Melta and AC (you can still snap fire the AC as you move and you have two shots to roll that 6) and have them have a hull heavy flamer as well. The Multi-laser is to good of a weapon to not keep and worse comes to worse you snap-fire it and fire your hull heavy flamer after you move 6".

The other option is to totally ditch the Chimeras and deck out your PCSs with 4x Sniper Rifles or 2x Sniper Rifles and a AC and use them as MC hunters/light vehicle poppers. The Sniper Rifles have a chance to Rend, so have a slim chance to effect AV 11. Using the Order 'Bring it Down!' makes your Platoon Command Squad even better at killing MCs if they are in this role. Not a bad way of spending 50pts IMO.

The AP 3 on the Storm troopers is fine, but the Str 3 of the weapon makes it a moot point. That is the killer of IG right now, their stock weapon is so terrible that they have to spam heavy and special weapon fire to be effective. Maybe IG Lasguns will get improved like Eldar Shuriken Catapults were improved.

VanHallan wrote:
I also wanted to roll the vets up behind the 2 hellhound.. I feel like 2 hellhounds would get most of the enemy fire so the vets could make it across better. The more the merrier i suppose.

Basically If I can have 2 platoons and a CCS behind the ADL I'll be moving up the board with veteran squads and hellhounds... I like the sounds of that. Add in 500-1000 points of blood angels and I think this would be a pretty scary force to fight.

To be honest, the Hell hounds die just as quick as normal Chimeras. It all depends on who you face. If they are a list like Nids, Orks, or foot IG, they will kill the biggest threat first (Hell Hounds), but if they are Mech based or not scared of the Hell Hounds, they may ignore them to kill the melta guns behind it. Or worse, have enough fire power to kill 2+ vehicles in one turn.

I run HWSs and Creed, with a Lord Commissar (with a Camo Cloak and nothing else) manning the gun on my ADL and keeping 3-4 HWSs within 6" of him to make use of his 'Aura of Discipline'. Sometimes I take a chance and attach the Lord to a HWS and risk him executing a team, but he gives them a even better cover save due to the Cloak. His Aura makes it so Creed's Orders go off on a 10 and that is pretty dang good. A AC HWS turns into effective AA when you give them 'Bring it Down!'. The ADL helps them survive and the Lord makes them stick around when they do get shot at with a re-roll from the Regimental Banner. It can work, it just takes effort and planning.

Oh, and the Lord being BS 5 on a Icarus Laser is pretty sweet. He is also a legal target for Orders as well, so if I don't use Intercept, I give him a 'Bring it Down!' to make sure he hits or 'Fire on my Target!' to ignore cover saves. The 'Fire on my Target!' works awesome if you go Quad gun instead of the Icarus, but I find the TLed is kinda wasted with his BS 5.

As for using your Allies, if you grab a Libby as your HQ choice and have enough points to create another blob of Infantry, throwing him in there and using the book powers can turn them into a good assault squad. Give your Libby Shield of Sang and Unleash Rage and make sure you take Power Axes on your Sergeants and watch them go to town. You can also give your Libby Terminator armor and a Storm Shield (I think BA libbies can take SS) and he can lead from the front with a Force Axe to tank shots. But I think your better off keeping him and the sergeants tucked away safe in the middle. If you take Assault Squads and other squads that can deep strike, consider taking a Astropath in your Command Squad to give you a bonus on the Reserve rolls. You can also go full on dick mode and take an Officer of the Fleet to hinder your opponent's reserve roll. They will want your CCS dead though, if the Master of Ordnance isn't drawing enough fire. But DSing the rest of your BAs and making sure they have melta guns and melta pistols could be pretty devastating combo. Just be careful of artillery and the like so you don't accidently scatter onto your own stuff.

Hope this helps... good luck man!

HWT's are great in infantry squads, it gives you 7 other guardsmen to soak up wounds aside from the sergeant. It boosts the LD so they can pass orders more easily and also if you dont have armor targets to kill at a range the HWT's can also add wounds on infantry when they need to fire at them. Yes an auto cannon has 2 shots but is s7 compared to 9 and the lascannon does have an ap bonus allowing it to blow vehicles up more easily.

Also storm troopers really can be hit or miss, yes ap3 is nice as it basically gets rid of your opponents average armor save but some units have invulns and and anything with toughness 4 will have require your stormies to need 5's just to wound. They also need to be within 9" just to double tap your opponent which means you basically put yourself in a danger zone that guard really doesnt do well.

The average army list your looking at doing will be in a really high point range. 2 platoons with a CCS hiding behind a defense line, 2-3 vet squads in chimeras with some hellhounds and artillery will probably be close to 2k points and then adding BA allies will just make the list go for around 2500+points. If you do small platoons it could narrow it down a bit but its really hard to pull a gunline/mobile mech force in a list together to make it effective and once you add BA allies it will be pretty pricey.

If you could post up a basic list of what your thinking and we could give you further advice/ tactics on what could best help this list that would be great!

Have you thought about magnetising your models so you can swap special and heavy weapons and wargear easily? That way you don't need a plan really, and can swap in whatever you feel like running. Want flamer / autocannons today? No problem! Lascannons and plasma tomorrow? Easy! Only ~1-2 in 10 models needs magnetising so it's well worth the effort to avoid problems like what you're facing imo.