Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Of all the hell hound variants I have seen not so much as hate but dislike of the devil dog. Am I the only one who sees tremendous potential in having a squad of 3 fast vehicles that can shoot a 24” melta template? On average you can kill a land raider per turn with that and cause havoc against units with 2+ saves. Especially if you factor in creed and his out flank rule.

Because it's not as good as the Balehound or whatever the chem cannon one is called, and not as iconic as the hellhound.

Edit: Banewolf. It's a Banewolf.

"Hate" is a very strong word for it. It's more like "mild apathy" or "there are better options" at the absolute worst. If you want fast attack to kill vehicles, there's the ludicrously undercosted Vendetta. If you want melta in one place really badly, you can drop in Stormtroopers or have a Valkyrie swing by and drop some melta vets out. Hellhounds are just more useful since IG often have trouble getting entrenched troops out of cover, given their lack of assault units and the fact that IG with flamers don't tend to get very close. The Banewolf is neat, but you have to get too close to be effective. If you're close enough to melt Marines with it, you're close enough to get charged by the survivors.

 Brother SRM wrote:
"Hate" is a very strong word for it. It's more like "mild apathy" or "there are better options" at the absolute worst. If you want fast attack to kill vehicles, there's the ludicrously undercosted Vendetta. If you want melta in one place really badly, you can drop in Stormtroopers or have a Valkyrie swing by and drop some melta vets out. Hellhounds are just more useful since IG often have trouble getting entrenched troops out of cover, given their lack of assault units and the fact that IG with flamers don't tend to get very close. The banewolf is neat, but you have to get too close to be effective. If you're close enough to melt Marines with it, you're close enough to get charged by the survivors.

This sums it up exactly. I feel that the range is just too short for it to be effective; perhaps next edition it'll have torrent.

Everything Brother SRM said.

The FA slot should be called the 'Vendetta' slot.

 Blacksails wrote:
Everything Brother SRM said.

The FA slot should be called the 'Vendetta' slot.

That is an issue isn't it. The vendetta is just too good to not be taken and its price really means you can field quite a few.

Its actually a significant issue with the codex.

Its probably one of the best examples of what internal balance means.

I mean, seriously, when thinking of competitive lists, ask yourself "why wouldn't I take 3 vendettas immediately". The answer is always a chuckle followed by spending 390pts on one of the best flyers in the game.

I have one of each of the hell hound variants in my collection. The hell hound and devil dog are converted from 1/35 WWII Italian M13 tanks and then banewolf is a converted 1/35 scale semovente 75 (no actual turret on that model, but my friends don't complain). I don't own a single vendetta. I play chaos renegades these days either using one of the lists from the Imperial Armour Vraks campaign books, or using the IG codex if an opponent sqwuaks at the "over powered" IA lists. Hahahaha. I see my force more as a corrupted Planetary Defense force and not as a corrupted elite IG force, so don't have things like vendettas in the army in any configuration.

I agree with your thoughts on the how boring those netlists are to play and play against. Oh look once again you have as many vendettas as you can fit in your army. How...unique... Same goes for all the other spam lists out there that seem to be completely lacking in any thought other than "I have to do this to win!" Generally those are the folks I get least enjoyment out of playing because they tend to be poor winners and even poorer losers. They are the first to scream and cry cheese when their OP netlist fails them which is the height of irony.

Skriker

 Swastakowey wrote:
Yes but isnt that so incredibly boring? I use a vendetta once to drop troops down and it was a lot of fun. But these spam lists are so boring to play. The people i play with make armies they enjoy and we still play competitively. The only person to spam anything is the Necron player who uses a wall of warriors (about 60-80 necrons). In my opinion all the lists on the internet arent fun at all, i love using the devil dog and dislike using the hell hound etc instead. It all comes down to what people enjoy. But i do think just spamming the best unit is a very bland style of playing and i really hope people where i am dont get into that habit.

Anyways enough of my rant, i generally take three in a squad unless its double the force organisation chart, use them against infantry more than vehicles but they have taken out monoliths (their size means its hard to miss em). I will admit there are better things in the fast attack section but vehicle wise the Devil Dog is my go to choice.

It is boring, I agree with you wholeheartedly. That's why I typically take a Hellhound over a Vendetta, since it's not something you see in every list. There just often ends up being a big gap in internal balance and when a Vendetta costs the same points value, is more survivable, and is more versatile, it tends to get taken instead. While I largely love the IG codex, the internal balance is pretty out of whack.

To be honest, I'm (hypothetically, I've not really experimented with them) a fan of the Devil Dog, I certainly rank it above the Banewolf, thanks to the greater range, and I certainly think it is one of the better AT options for IG. On the whole I'd prefer a LC/PC Vanquisher for my AT needs (more dangerous at better range), but a Dog can certainly provide nice firepower, and is fast to boot. As with everything guard, bringing multiples is key. One or even 2 dogs are going to be blown up early, but 3+, along with a bunch of Chimeras and maybe a Hellhound or two gives you a wall of armour that can't be ignored or easily countered.

The only problem with them is that they rely on mobility to both get them in range and get them out of harm, whereas a Russ could sit back and shoot, staying safe and doing damage all game. A I say, this isn't an issue when you're playing an all-or-mostly mech list, but in isolation can lead to a lack of target options and will die fast.

On the whole, though, they seem like nice units when used properly, certainly one of the better FA options. I'd still put them behind Hellhounds in a mech list, as AT is generally less of a problem there than anti-horde, but in no way are they a poor unit.

Devil Dogs just always tasted funny to me. Plus the cream immediately shoots out the back end of it with the first bite.

Huh?
Oh, you mean the IG fast tank?

My meta involves very little AV 14 and so I never really need an overwhelming force of melta. But looking at the stats and the fact that it is cheaper than the other variants makes me think that really is still a solid choice for anyone who doesn't like to wait around for flyers to come in from reserves.

I love it, it works wonders for me since I dont like to field flyers. And that I tend to face a lot of things that needs to be slagged rather fast.

Three words.

Not
A
Vendetta

This can sum up the problems with most of the Imperial Guard's fast attack choices right away. Otherwise the Devil dog is actually a pretty decent unit. With the new blast rules on penetration I can punish anyone who parks too closely and inflict a bit of extra sorrow on multiwound T4 units.