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Question as above.

Using the rule from Horus Heresy : Massacre

Would Erebus be 40k legal?

I have read his profile. Nothing too OP to include in a normal game.

What do you guys think?

If your opponent consents, yes.

If not, depends on what you mean by legal

FW stuff is legal to use in 40K, as long as it is marked 40K approved. The flamewar whenever FW legality is brought up is not worth it.

Doesn't mean your opponent has to let you use it unless they are cool with it, so discuss with them.

^ what he said!

It is best to inquire beforehand, especially if you're going to play at a LGS or in some tournament. I heard that it is supposedly very region-specific, with some areas where just about ever shop allows use of FW units, and other areas where it's the opposite. In tournament, of course the organiser has full control over what's being fielded. GW events, for example, specifically bar the use of FW rules, but allow you to bring the models as proxy for Codex units.

He is NOT legal because he only has Heresy-era rules, and the Heresy rules are an alternate game in the 40k universe, not an addition to "core" 40k. Unlike most FW units the Heresy stuff does NOT have the "40k approved" stamp and you will need to ask your opponent to play a special 40k vs. 30k game if you want to use it.

 Peregrine wrote:
He is NOT legal because he only has Heresy-era rules, and the Heresy rules are an alternate game in the 40k universe, not an addition to "core" 40k. Unlike most FW units the Heresy stuff does NOT have the "40k approved" stamp and you will need to ask your opponent to play a special 40k vs. 30k game if you want to use it.

According to HH: Betrayal you -can- play games with the Legion rules though using a normal FOC (it's even recommended under a certain points level).

I also want to point out that the actual rulebook gives a lot of freedom where your army comes from, namely that it doesn't have to be a codex to play it. Sounds like the HH stuff to me there.

That said your opponent (or if playing tournaments) TO's opinion matter's more than Dakka's. If they're cool with it then it's no issue, otherwise you might just want to use him as a Chaos Lord with some cool looking gear or something.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
He is NOT legal because he only has Heresy-era rules, and the Heresy rules are an alternate game in the 40k universe, not an addition to "core" 40k. Unlike most FW units the Heresy stuff does NOT have the "40k approved" stamp and you will need to ask your opponent to play a special 40k vs. 30k game if you want to use it.

According to HH: Betrayal you -can- play games with the Legion rules though using a normal FOC (it's even recommended under a certain points level).

I also want to point out that the actual rulebook gives a lot of freedom where your army comes from, namely that it doesn't have to be a codex to play it. Sounds like the HH stuff to me there.

That said your opponent (or if playing tournaments) TO's opinion matter's more than Dakka's. If they're cool with it then it's no issue, otherwise you might just want to use him as a Chaos Lord with some cool looking gear or something.

Thanks everyone. Can you please clarify what do you mean by using normal FOC? I have the HH: Betrayal Book. which page is it.

I have no intention of using him as a proxy. I want to use him as he is. Erebus.

It is just sad that the apostle in the CSM codex is so weak. It is nothing near the the Word Bearers Dark Apostle as describe in the fluff.

 kissmymom wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
He is NOT legal because he only has Heresy-era rules, and the Heresy rules are an alternate game in the 40k universe, not an addition to "core" 40k. Unlike most FW units the Heresy stuff does NOT have the "40k approved" stamp and you will need to ask your opponent to play a special 40k vs. 30k game if you want to use it.

According to HH: Betrayal you -can- play games with the Legion rules though using a normal FOC (it's even recommended under a certain points level).

I also want to point out that the actual rulebook gives a lot of freedom where your army comes from, namely that it doesn't have to be a codex to play it. Sounds like the HH stuff to me there.

That said your opponent (or if playing tournaments) TO's opinion matter's more than Dakka's. If they're cool with it then it's no issue, otherwise you might just want to use him as a Chaos Lord with some cool looking gear or something.

Thanks everyone. Can you please clarify what do you mean by using normal FOC? I have the HH: Betrayal Book. which page is it.

I have no intention of using him as a proxy. I want to use him as he is. Erebus.

It is just sad that the apostle in the CSM codex is so weak. It is nothing near the the Word Bearers Dark Apostle as describe in the fluff.

Page 184 it recommends using standard FOC instead of the Legion FOC at 1.5K and below.

To be fair, not all Dark Apostles are Word Bearers, and similiarly, most of that fluff isn't studio fluff and we all know fluff=/=Tabletop or else it'd be near impossible to kill Marines.

ClockworkZion wrote:most of that fluff isn't studio fluff and we all know fluff=/=Tabletop or else it'd be near impossible to kill Marines.

Not in studio fluff, though - most of that idea comes from bolterporn novels, methinks. But every faction suffers from that. It's called "plot armour".

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:most of that fluff isn't studio fluff and we all know fluff=/=Tabletop or else it'd be near impossible to kill Marines.

Not in studio fluff, though - most of that idea comes from bolterporn novels, methinks. But every faction suffers from that. It's called "plot armour".

Marines have it in their codex too. 5th Ed Vanguard Vet fluff about being able to kill a building full of men without equipment comes to mind. Plus their numerous organs that allow them to survive "all but the most fatal wounds". Face it, fluff Marines are damned hard to kill.

 Peregrine wrote:
He is NOT legal because he only has Heresy-era rules, and the Heresy rules are an alternate game in the 40k universe, not an addition to "core" 40k. Unlike most FW units the Heresy stuff does NOT have the "40k approved" stamp and you will need to ask your opponent to play a special 40k vs. 30k game if you want to use it.

That being said, fighting a Heresy era army under 2000 or so points is an easy way to win, especially if you have the standard terrors of a MEQ army since the Legion list has extremely specialized units that you must buy in bulk. Which means it can turn into a turkey shoot if you have Baledrakes, an Eldar army period, Doom Scythes, or Iontides.

Agreed Kain, the Legion List is more of a "big game" to "Apoc" sized list. It doesn't really come into it's own until about 2.5K.

Doesn't mean you can't offer to play standard FOC at higher point games or offer them use of the Legion FOC to compensate (also known as "for funsies").

The 30k stuff is meant to be played against other 30k stuff.

However, I'd play a game of 40k with you using the 30k stuff, but would restrict the Primarchs and Super Heavies to Apoc games.

 kronk wrote:
The 30k stuff is meant to be played against other 30k stuff.

However, I'd play a game of 40k with you using the 30k stuff, but would restrict the Primarchs and Super Heavies to Apoc games.

30k stuff is meant to play against 30k stuff but it's not really that unbalanced. The Super Heavies and Primarchs all belong in the "Lords of War" slot so if you drop that it's covered rather nicely.

ClockworkZion wrote:Marines have it in their codex too. 5th Ed Vanguard Vet fluff about being able to kill a building full of men without equipment comes to mind.

Sure, but what men? Codex AoD had a pretty extensive fluff section about the protective values of Marine PA, and it doesn't immunise against small arms - so it's just a matter of how many lasguns you bring to bear against an Astartes, for after a couple of penetrating shots even their organs will not save them anymore. This is reflected pretty well in the TT or GW's Inquisitor RPG. And the 3E Marine Codex had a story about Marines being killed by Ork shootas.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - don't focus too much about the best possible portrayal in a source, but look for the middle ground or the general tone. Or even better, look for the most humble portrayal in the studio fluff, for it is likely that everything else is twisted by omission of details.
If we're going purely by Codex fluff, a thousand Battle Sisters are sufficient to conquer 100 planets. Do I take this at face value? No, and neither should you.

(this should be its own thread, I suppose? might make an interesting debate)

 ClockworkZion wrote:


30k stuff is meant to play against 30k stuff but it's not really that unbalanced. The Super Heavies and Primarchs all belong in the "Lords of War" slot so if you drop that it's covered rather nicely.

Dow do you stop someone from taking choices from a codex you let him use in the first place. Wouldn't that automaticly mean he can veto all the anti meq unit from your codex and without those this the legion lists more or less walker over any list.

Makumba wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


30k stuff is meant to play against 30k stuff but it's not really that unbalanced. The Super Heavies and Primarchs all belong in the "Lords of War" slot so if you drop that it's covered rather nicely.

Dow do you stop someone from taking choices from a codex you let him use in the first place. Wouldn't that automaticly mean he can veto all the anti meq unit from your codex and without those this the legion lists more or less walker over any list.

It just means you play standard FOC. Likewise if he gets LoW, then you do too. It's a fair compromise for a fun game unless you just want to get stomped on by titans.

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I do agree on the fluff =/= table top opinion.

but a 2 wound models? I might as well give away slay the warlord for free. come on. Give him 3 wounds and I am a happy heretic.

BUT.

After looking at the Erebus Special Rule and Stats.

Nothing too OP in my opinion.

Heck he even have a few special rules that I cannot use in a normal 40k game such as the Legion Astarters.

he is pretty much has the exact same stat with generic dark aspotle. but with a 2+/4++ and comes stock with plasma pistol and master crafted power maul.

Heck you can ID him with a lascannon shot. lol.