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 pretre wrote:
Priest goes wherever. Although I may stick him with the TWC for rerolls on saves. Celestine starts with the TWC and either sticks with them or goes to the rets. Doms is a good place for the priest too. He can hop out and join the TWC later.

Can Celestine still do her Act of Faith (ie get back up) if she's with a Space Wolves unit though? Acts of Faith can only be performed if the entire unit is made up of models with either the Shield of Faith or War Hymns rules. Something to keep in mind maybe.

When Celestine uses her AoF, she's dead, therefore not part of a unit

Exactly that.

Oh right, of course lol

 GoonBandito wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Dunno if this was mentioned before or not, but there was an update to our codex done on June 30th of this year. if you haven't already, might want to re-download it.

SisterSydney wrote:1) Awesome Celestine -- is her skin red-gold, or is that just my iPhone screen? I don't think I've ever seen highlight her supernatural nature that way.

2) What got updated, specifically?

It was just the 'update' for 7th Edition - they changed the names of references to the core rulebook, and fixed up some formatting errors on the Condemnor Boltgun and Exorcist/Penitent Engine profiles. Nothing changed in terms of rules.

Pretty much this. Also a GW copy-write line at the end with the date.

As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

I would like to try running the command squad as 4 storm bolters and a hospitaller, fairly durable I would think. Sadly I don't have any storm bolter sisters.

I've run them in the past as 4 power weapons and a hospitaller and it was effective but I think it's too much of a points sink unfortunately.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.

I still think the command squad is only ever really useful if you take the banner and have enough assault units to support them. (Like a couple 50 guardsmen blobs that suddenly get 3 attacks on the charge...)

Actually, I wanted to make a drop pod list with SW where there was a command squad with the banner and a grey hunter squad with their banner for +1/+2 attacks in a 12" radius. 5 units would come down in pods, 1 doms with meltas, 1 retributors with heavy flamers, 1 grey hunters with banner, 1 command squad with banner, and 1 blood claws? each unit would have a priest in it. I just haven't really figured out how to make the points work out and how to take a few extra drop pods and/or guarantee 2nd turn reserves. With guaranteed reserves, the banners could come down turn 2 to buff anyone that survived round 1 and is now ready to charge.

The big downside is this army would have no real mobility after initial deployment, and I couldn't take TWC because all the FA slots would be given over to pods for my sisters.

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I'm not saying the Command Squad is a replacement for Dominions at all (far from it). But if you are already taking a Canoness as an HQ and have already maxed out your FA slots, the Command Squad can act like a 4th "poor man's" Dominion Squad in the sense that they can take 5 Specials and a DT.

I know I have previously dismissed the Command Squad as wasted points, but I am rethinking that position given my new understanding of what the squad can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1850 MSU List Utilizing Command Squads

I like the dual-inferno-pistol Canoness, personally, for supporting my Melta-minions.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I consider flamer doms a waste of a FA slot and points. Then again, I play against mostly MEQ. They could make a nasty melee unit but are hampered by the inability to take a few extra meat shields to protect their squishy T3 selves, though I could see a cannoness helping a bit in that regard.

 pretre wrote:
SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

1) Space Wolves can buy drop pods as a fast attack choice.

2) Champions Of Fenris has its own unique force organisation chart where the compulsories are elites, not troops.

 evildrcheese wrote:

 pretre wrote:
SOB CAD
St Celestine
Priest
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
BSS (5) with Flamer/Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (5) with 4 heavy flamer and combi

COF Detachment
Harald
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Iron Priest with TW Mount
Thunderwolf x4 (SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF, BP/CCW)
Drop Pod
1850

My list for a one day bao style tourney.

I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

Harald makes Cavalry into Troops. (I thought? )

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
As I was looking for other changes, I didn't realize until just now that the Hospitaller and Dialogus are no longer mandatory for the Command Squad (if you're taking a Canoness anyway). As I also read it, I can equip all 5 of the Celestians of the Command Squad with special weapons. For about the same points (not counting the points spend on the Canoness), I could get essentially another Dominion squad that doesn't have Scout. This has given me cause to look at taking the Command Squad again.

Doesn't have scout and doesn't have the ignores cover act of faith. So... not really another dominion squad.I

For 150 points (again not including the Canoness) I get 5 Flamers in an Immolator. 155 points gets me 4 Flamers and a Combi-Flamer also in an Immolator. Sure the Dominions have Scout, but if taking Flamers the AoF is a wash.

I'm not saying the Command Squad is a replacement for Dominions at all (far from it). But if you are already taking a Canoness as an HQ and have already maxed out your FA slots, the Command Squad can act like a 4th "poor man's" Dominion Squad in the sense that they can take 5 Specials and a DT.

I know I have previously dismissed the Command Squad as wasted points, but I am rethinking that position given my new understanding of what the squad can take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1850 MSU List Utilizing Command Squads

Spoiler:

HQ:
Canoness, Combi-Melta 75
Canoness, Combi-Flamer 75

SCS, 5 x Celestians, 5 x Meltaguns, Immolator 175
SCS, 5 x Celestians, 5 x Flamers, Immolator 150

Troops:
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140
BSS, 2 x Flamers, Combi-Flamer, Immolator 140

FA:
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175
Doms, 4 x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175

HS:
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125

Comes in at 1795 as is. Could switch out to Rhinos for some. Could drop Combi's to get another BSS in Immolator. Could upgrade to some Vet Superiors. Could change some weapon load-outs, add upgrades, trick out a Canoness (or both!).

A good use for the 5 Special Weapons on the Command Squad is 5 Heavy bolters. Replaces the Retributors, you get 1 extra gun but no rending. Most importantly you have a spare Slot for another Exorcist. So overall, if you want to go to a more "shooty" Tau-Style, you can have a lot of Heavy Bolters and Exorcists in a standard CAD. Extra Canoness not really useful then, though.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I assume the HF rets are in the drop pod? How effective are you finding that as they're coming down turn 1, it doesn't give you much time to pod transports to get the the infantry inside and make them crispy.

Also, there doesn't appear to be any SW troops? How's that?

D

Someone else covered the troops bit. CoF detachment requires two elites (the iron priests) and an HQ (Harald).

Rets are not going to be great against a full mech force, but anything with elite infantry on the field (Cent Star) or hordes (orks, guard) are going to be unhappy to see them. Add to that the dual Dominions and if I get first turn, things are going to go poorly for my opponent.

 BlackTalos wrote:
A good use for the 5 Special Weapons on the Command Squad is 5 Heavy bolters. Replaces the Retributors, you get 1 extra gun but no rending. Most importantly you have a spare Slot for another Exorcist. So overall, if you want to go to a more "shooty" Tau-Style, you can have a lot of Heavy Bolters and Exorcists in a standard CAD. Extra Canoness not really useful then, though.

I've used my command squad as all HB before too, also done up with 4 HB and a hospitaller, makes for a good camping unit that's tough to shift. Only downsides if I remember correctly is that the CS is more expensive than a ret squad per model, and their act of faith doesn't help out the HB at all. It does however free up a HS slot and that may be worth the two downsides in and of itself.

And you have to take a Canoness...

I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

Say what now?

I think he was referring to my idea of attaching her to a space marine scout bike squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far it's the only unit I can think of that I can attach her to and be able to scout more than 6". (I think Khan would have to be my warlord to make regular bikers scout).

 pretre wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm liking the fact that celestine gets T5 and scout.

Say what now?

I misread. I thought TWC had scout.

 pretre wrote:
And you have to take a Canoness...

That's ok, I'm not a fan of most named characters, regardless of rules if I don't like the character I won't field it. I don't have a Celestine model so I won't field her and honestly I can't stand Jacobus, the crazy old coot. To be honest I quite like my canoness and she's pulled her weight for me on almost every match I've played as SoB. One day I may make a female priest that looks kool to field as a counts as: Jacobus and I'm sure I'll eventually get a Celestine model but until then I'm more than happy to field my canoness. And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a competitive player and I don't do torunaments (I live way too far away from any major city centre that hosts any to make it to one). I play for fun and beers with friends. I may have just invalidated my argument for the canoness in that last sentence but oh well

I don't think a Canoness is a bad model at all - in fact an Eviscerator/Rosarius/Mantle of Ophelia Canoness is my go-to HQ. Celestine is great, I'm not arguing that, however she has a huge downside in that she's a T3 model without Eternal Warrior. She's truly excellent at cutting through 3+ or worse models, but against S6 AP2 or higher she's in real trouble.

A Canoness on the other is capable of taking on Monstrous Creatures and TEQs. Mind you I always run her with 2 Priests with Litanies and a Celestian Squad for majority WS4. With Priests allowing re-rolls of saving throws, they become surprisingly resilient. A Rerollable 4+ is right between a 2+ and 3+ in terms of survivability. I've taken that squad up against a Hive Tyrant and Carnifex at the same time in CC and come out victorious. I've held out against an Iron Arm'd Demon Prince of Tzeentch who had the 4+ FNP Greater Demonic Reward for 3 rounds and was on the verge of killing it (Demon Prince was down to 1 wound, Canoness was the sole surviving member of the unit with 2 wounds left when the game ended). I tarpitted the hell out of Draigo + Paladins one game on those re-rollable 4+ invluns too.

I'm a big fan of making sure to cover all my bases in an army list. I don't like being without a unit that can handle itself in CC. The Canoness + Priests + Celestians can handle that

For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Probably, but I don't have any Death Cult Assassins. Plus I really like my Canoness Model lol. Though if I was going to field DCA, I'd be more inclined to field them from Codex: Inquisition for Land Raider dedicated transport + Inquisitor shenanigans.

Besides I've found opponents don't really give much attention to my Canoness/Celestian/Priest squad because they don't think much of it. Certainly it doesn't seem that impressive on paper, because it's the War Hymns that give the real power and make the Celestians half-way decent. If I threw down 7 dual wielding power-sword ladies who attack at I6 then I reckon an opponent is far more likely to gak a brick and focus some fire on them.

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

 deviantduck wrote:
Anyone else going to represent the Adepta Sororitas at the LVO with me? (And/Or piss away $75 to FMC and wave serpent spam)

If I go to the LVO I'll probably some form of Sisters. I'm not sure if it will be Sisters/Inquisition or Sisters/Some form of marines.

I always run Saint. with a squad Seraphim normally with an upgraded superior with 1x hand flamers and 1x inferno Pistols. Something about the possibility of 9 wounds from Wall of Death on the charge keeps them at bay.
Then a run a mix of melta's and flamers on battle sisters with immolator's.
With 3x Exorcist's heavy support.


Tactics are pretty simple I use the saint and her squad as bait. I hit and run in and out of combat till they start dealing with them. Exorcist's remove all the fast/ heavy units then start working on the troops. Worst thing I see is Terms deep striking to the Exorcist's, so I try and hug something that they can mishap by and stay on the board edge's.
About turn 3, I start unloading the Battle sisters to contest or jump on the objectives. By then I have them easy enough to deal with the 6 sisters and the immolator's to take over enough objectives for the win. Also I set the objectives out in the open a lot hehe. Nothing like a 10 man troop squad getting eaten with no cover by ap1.

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
For the same points, couldn't you use Jacobus and a battle conclave and get better results?

Not against 2+ saves, but against most other things, yes.

priests can et eviscerators and smash. So yeah...

Yeah, but you can stick those in either unit I mean, if you really wanted you could make a 5 priest unit with maces and one of them taking the book instead. It'd be pretty deadly if they didn't die before I3 came up. The cannoness is going to be our best character in a challenge though. Celestine has never done well for me against anything with a 2+ save.

Yeah with sufficient priests in a unit there's almost nothing you can't handle in CC.

D