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Mavnas wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Played a really rough game against the new crons. I basically only won because his wraith died to overwatch fire from a 5 girl squad. It took 1100 points of firing against a buffed warrior squad to shift them and even then I didn't kill them all.

What's our answer here? My battle plan can't simple be to hope they roll really badly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it just to take a 20 girl squad with 2 priests and just tarp it their units?

Yeah I've been thinking of this, outside of allies, Sisters have no answer to Wraiths at all. Giving them T5 was probably the stupidest move GW has done since 7th dropped.

Sisters have one of the most efficient counter to wraiths of them all. Crusaders + Priest with Litanies. Or really, Crusaders + priest, or Uriah's blob, or really any unit that rerolls a 3+ or 3++. Though against multiple wraith units you will need Celestine to allow the priests to make their Hymns on a 10 and multiple priest-containing units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Normally you need an expensive delivery mechanism, against enemies that want to be in melee, you just need to hang out near the things they'd like to charge.

That's a good way to tarpit them and whittle them down, and I kind of like it in general, but I'm trying to figure out how to keep the squad from getting totally shot up by the rest of the Necron army. I dunno, I usually do MSU Sisters so huge blobs are a foreign concept to me.

@Andilus I wouldn't worry about wraiths if you play MSU. Most wraith heavy builds have nowhere near the shooting they used to after the point increases. Focus on the supporting units and just skirt around the wraiths, occasionally feeding them an expendable unit to keep them hemmed in.

@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.

Anyone ever try adding a melta bomb squad or two in order to take out superheavies that are so prevalent?

something like:

12 inq henchmen with melta bombs

or, if you don't like extra points laying around

10 priests with evisorators in a land raider crusader

throw them in a vehicle to give them mobility and it could be a nasty little surprise. I kinda like the henchmen squad because its only around 100 points and thats a LOT of melta bombs.

Could always spend the extra 10 points or so and give them bolters, but thats not the point.

PanzerLeader wrote:

@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.

This doesn't change as much as you would think. The ruling has been pretty consistent.

1. Move closest model first into base contact.
2. Move another model into base, maintaining coherency
3. Continue moving one model at a time to unegaged enemy models
4. Once you run out of unengaged models, you simply need to move into assault maintaining coherency.

Once all of this has happened, you can start moving models out of coherency. But you have to move them as close as possible to models that have already moved. It does not give you permission to just start sending models in any direction in assault.

 Green is Best! wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.

This doesn't change as much as you would think. The ruling has been pretty consistent.

1. Move closest model first into base contact.
2. Move another model into base, maintaining coherency
3. Continue moving one model at a time to unegaged enemy models
4. Once you run out of unengaged models, you simply need to move into assault maintaining coherency.

Once all of this has happened, you can start moving models out of coherency. But you have to move them as close as possible to models that have already moved. It does not give you permission to just start sending models in any direction in assault.

I read it more aggressively in that as long as you were making it base contact, you could now ignore coherency requirements. Essentially, you can now declare a disrupted charge and as long as you can make base contact with any of the targets, coherency becomes irrelevant.

 deviantduck wrote:
This is what i'm taking to vegas next week for the championship tourney at LVO.

CAD:
Celestine
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 BSS with MM in Backfield with Iron Priest
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Drop Pod
Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter

CotGW:
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, Runic Armor, Pelt of Balewolf
Iron Priest on TWM
Iron Priest on foot (with BSS backfield, or maybe with a squad of Doms)
3 TWC with SS/WC, SS/CCW, SS/PF
Drop Pod filled with Doms


So far it's been pretty devastating. I got a first blood last game by killing a Wratih Knight top of 1.

Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.

I've been running similar list variants lately, and will tell you what you already know... It is a very strong list, and in a very efficient way, has "answers" to a lot of different parts of the current meta.

I will say I might ditch the non-TW Iron Priest, if only because the mounted one is already so versatile at being anti-armor, an objective grabber, etc... that the second will just comparatively not be worth his points. Being able to add one more "basic" TWC member to that pack will probably help it more, as its an extra casualty before that scalpel gets blunted.

Yeah, also, why Pelt of the BW?

As an addition to my above post.

If you do ditch the second Priest, you obviously need an Elite for the legality of the Company of the Great Wolf.

Might I suggest a MSU of Wolf-Guard Terminators. If you deep-strike them they might grab an objective you otherwise couldn't, and they're just durable enough to be annoying, but still cheap enough that a player will feel stupid throwing AP2 shots at them. Both are handy in this objective-based 40k world.

If you drop the runic, balewolf and one SS on the TWC, you can get a TW for the second IP.

Is company of the great wolf in the basic spacewalk codex or in the supplement?

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Is company of the great wolf in the basic spacewalk codex or in the supplement?

The Supplement, Champions of Fenris.

Thanks. I don't have that, though I'd like to experiment with that formation. Is it wrong to ask what the formation contains?

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Thanks. I don't have that, though I'd like to experiment with that formation. Is it wrong to ask what the formation contains?

http://bloodofkittens.com/detachment-compendium/

Compulsory: 1 HQ, 2 Elite
Optional: 3 HQ, 3 Troops, 6 Elites, 3 FA, 3 HS, 1 LoW, 1 Fortification
Restrictions: All units in this Detachment (except fortifications) must have the Space Wolves Faction.
Command Benefits:
Grimnar’s Right Hand: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, you can re-roll the result when rolling on the Champions of Fenris Warlord Traits Table.
Kingsguard: The following models have +1 WS on their profile when chosen as part of
this Detachment: Wolf Guard, Wolf Guard Pack Leader, Wolf Guard Terminator, Wolf Guard Terminator Leader, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader
Source: Supplement: Champions of Fenris
- See more at: http://bloodofkittens.com/detachment-compendium/#sthash.PqnTBleA.dpuf

Essentially, if you don't mind losing Ob-Sec... Champions is the (not so) secret, REAL Space Wolves Codex. :-p Better (arguably) relics. Better Warlord traits (some REALLY excellent ones). And a better FoC that buffs some already wonderful units significantly.

WS5 TWC are incredibly good.

Its awesome... though miserably, it is no longer in print as a physical book... which pisses me off to no end.

Cool. Thanks. I ha e marines but now thunder wolves so I don't think I'll go that route. But wolf guard out of a drop pod won't be that bad

Looking for C&C on this list for GT play


AS CAD
-Celestine
-2 min BSS in rhinos
-2 min Dom squads, 4x melta, rhinos
-3x Exorcists

AM Allied
-CCS 2x plasma Chimera
-Veterans 3x melta Chimera
- Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment
-Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
- Henchies: 4x crusaders, 4x DCA's, 2x ministorum priest (one with Litanies, he comes from the Sisters CAD)
- LR Crusader, multi-melta, psybolt ammo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and just to add to the discussion, TWC are an amazing ally +1 to that

I've loved running DCA/crusader stars as they crush everything 3+ save and up (so far I've rocked Swarmlord, big Death Company blob with Astorath and a 4+ FNP, Mega-armored warboss and retinue, big wraithguard squads etc., most of those most of the damage was done by the I6 step of round 1 of combat)

Doms are absolutely going to be smashed after they get out of the tank, you can use them for movement phase control e.g. setting screens and other things while also throwing their melta. I definitely have seen them dominate against the right opponent.

I'm finding that type of opponent list (static, clear armor or high toughness/no invul targets on the board turn 1) that Doms excel against is rare around me, and if you're not facing a prime target, your girls are easy targets who can do little in return.

To be honest, the DCA/Crusader/Xenos Inq squad is my go to squad for theorycraft exercises in threads where someone asserts unit X is unkillable by anything.

If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)

I'm about to start painting a LR, 2 psybacks, 2 min squads of plasma gun acolytes, and a DCA/Crusader/Inq squad to be my go to allies.

Mavnas wrote:
If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)

He an imperial Armour Inquisitor? Not seen him in the Inq Codex?

 BlackTalos wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)

He an imperial Armour Inquisitor? Not seen him in the Inq Codex?

IA Red Scorpion Space Marine Librarian. Automatically knows an entire discipline (I think he can choose any except Divination) and can burn 1 warp charge to make his 2+ save a 2++ save for a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

interested wrote:
Looking for C&C on this list for GT play


AS CAD
-Celestine
-2 min BSS in rhinos
-2 min Dom squads, 4x melta, rhinos
-3x Exorcists

AM Allied
-CCS 2x plasma Chimera
-Veterans 3x melta Chimera
- Wyvern

Inquisition Detachment
-Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
- Henchies: 4x crusaders, 4x DCA's, 2x ministorum priest (one with Litanies, he comes from the Sisters CAD)
- LR Crusader, multi-melta, psybolt ammo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and just to add to the discussion, TWC are an amazing ally +1 to that

I've loved running DCA/crusader stars as they crush everything 3+ save and up (so far I've rocked Swarmlord, big Death Company blob with Astorath and a 4+ FNP, Mega-armored warboss and retinue, big wraithguard squads etc., most of those most of the damage was done by the I6 step of round 1 of combat)

Doms are absolutely going to be smashed after they get out of the tank, you can use them for movement phase control e.g. setting screens and other things while also throwing their melta. I definitely have seen them dominate against the right opponent.

I'm finding that type of opponent list (static, clear armor or high toughness/no invul targets on the board turn 1) that Doms excel against is rare around me, and if you're not facing a prime target, your girls are easy targets who can do little in return.

So if you have the points, I'd switch out the CCS plasma rifles for a master of ordnance and a lascannon (in that order). Ignore cover, S9, AP3 large blast is pretty sweet. I'd also drop their chimera in favor a second wyvern.

To make it more of a sisters death squad how about starting with a repentia unit. Thinking something like:

-9 Repentia + the S&M whip girl
-Priest with LoF
-Ordo Xeno's Inq with rad and psyco gernades and the scouting relic

Still need something to tank so I was thinking a SM or GK character. Artificer armor and a storm shield (or the eternal warrior storm shield) would work well and the GK characters almost all know Hammerhand. (whats better than 36 S6 AP2 armorbane? 36 S10 AP2 armorbane of course!)

If you go with a Black Templar or Grey Knights allied force then you can get a land raider out of troops for ObSec, but you would have to load your squad in it on the first turn. Kinda annoying, but 4 AV14 hull points are a pain for some armies to crack when parked on an objective.

I'm kinda liking the GK version. The prospect of instant death on T5 troops is VERY appealing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do think that to run a squad like this you will need a land raider, probably a Crusader for the capacity. Scouting one forward is a fun prospect

The other thing to consider is that most GTs are limiting you to 2 detachments right now. So this list would need to be cut down for many of them.

war wrote:
To make it more of a sisters death squad how about starting with a repentia unit. Thinking something like:

-9 Repentia + the S&M whip girl
-Priest with LoF
-Ordo Xeno's Inq with rad and psyco gernades and the scouting relic

While it is a point sink, adding Uriah to this makes them a rerollable 5++ in close combat which makes your repentia last quite a bit longer.

Yea, I thought about that but the problem is that you would be throwing him in what I would consider a suicide squad. Giving up your general is rough. Its ashame it doesn't work when he isn't your general.

Countercharge would be nice in the rare chance someone would actually charge repentia though.

I suppose the biggest thing about any variant is that it demands attention from your opponent. If they choose to ignore it, it will cause an awful lot of damage. Works for me because my obsec BSS squads and rhino/immolators will be free to win the game for me.

So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.

SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...

In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?

I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?

It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.

I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.

Thoughts?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.

SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...

In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?

I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?

It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.

I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.

Thoughts?

Melta Doms peel off models. TWC lord is not ID by a Chapter Master. TWC lord will probably chew up a chapter master pretty easy. Also, keep in mind that your TWC are hitting on 3's. If you have a priest, you get rerolls on hits and armor saves. You'll chew them up if they're dumb enough to charge or get charged.

 pretre wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.

SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...

In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?

I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?

It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.

I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.

Thoughts?

Melta Doms peel off models. TWC lord is not ID by a Chapter Master. TWC lord will probably chew up a chapter master pretty easy. Also, keep in mind that your TWC are hitting on 3's. If you have a priest, you get rerolls on hits and armor saves. You'll chew them up if they're dumb enough to charge or get charged.

Well, his Chapter Master has a Thunderhammer... so, isn't he S10? Or do bikes not confer a +1s like Thunderwolf Mounts do?

If so, that would help.

Still, while I am drowning him in saves, aren't they very easy saves to make, considering they're likely 2+/FNP for the vast, vast, majority of 'em?

Only thing going for me is the Krackenbone Relic means on a charge (or charged), my Wolf Lord is getting 6, AP2 attacks, at initiative 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So... I didn't realize how "squishy" the rest of the bikes in that squad would be.

Hypothetically, as Sagaborn means I have to challenge... I throw my Wolf Claw/Storm Shield Pack Leader at the Chapter Master, and just suck it up, but the rest of my squad and Wolf Lord absolutely trample the rest, including the Apothocary. And from there... yeah, its an uphill battle for the CM.

Is that logic valid?

Bikes don't give +1 S like TWC.

Yes, that logic works. Although, keep in mind once the squad is gone ALL the wounds go to the chapter master. He can only make so many 3++ saves.

Also, keep in mind your WL can probably take him flat out in a challenge. With Krakenbone alone, you're going to be making him make 3-4 saves a turn probably.

Well the only added difficulty I have is if his Libby ends up fishing for, and getting Invis, which is a 50% chance as he is taking the upgraded ML.

Hitting on sixes only makes it a hell of a longer grind on my end, potentially.

Its a mediocre hope, but I am really hoping that my Melta Doms strip a few models from the unit on Turn 1. If I get first-turn and can go before he potentially gets Invis off, I can reasonably expect them to kill 2 (almost 3) models off, and depending on model placement, might make sure one of those is the Apothocary.

Keep in mind you have rerolls, so even against invisibility, you still hit 11/36 of the time.

So, another part of this weird-mish-mash of rules tournament, is that "Big Game Hunter" is now a tertiary objective, and whoever killed the highest value model which died during said game, picks up 2vp.

Now, the meta has again made clear that this means a LOT of Knight Titans.

What is my best bet should I decide to go Titan hunting? Strip some wounds with Melta Sisters before using my own Titan to finish it in CC?

Can TWC units + Wolf Lord stand a decent chance, considering all those rending attacks, or is the counter-attack not worth risking?