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Actually we can already take some of the FW knights as a LoW including one that has a giant flamer.

Yeah, maybe the haywire seraphim was a bit unfluffy and over the top.


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Mavnas wrote:
Actually we can already take some of the FW knights as a LoW including one that has a giant flamer.

Yeah, I don't actually want an LoW, can ally imperial knights for that. I wast just making a unfunny joke.

To be fair plasma grenades was a common thing for Seraphim in 2ed.

But that was also when we threw glass vials of tears from weeping statues of the Emperor that killed demons super quick and if they survived they lost their demonic aura

So there are actually 2 major uses for Cult Mech allied with SoB that I see being a huge boost to the army.
1) Heavy Grav cannons provide an answer to things like wraithknights that SoB just don't do efficiently.
2) Raiment of the Technomartyrs gives a pretty good answer to AA, just throw it into a decent sized unit of grav cannons and if it is a vehicle use The Scryerskull Perspicatus to reroll armour pen against it. The best part is you can GtG behind an ADL and still shoot at BS2.

I think there is a lot of synergy to be found especially with some of the formations.

I'd probably agree if I had the codex in my hands, but I'm telling myself there's no point mainly because my Inquisition, IG, and SM allied detachments are nowhere near done painting and it wouldn't hurt to do a few SoB vehicles either :(

 ansacs wrote:
So there are actually 2 major uses for Cult Mech allied with SoB that I see being a huge boost to the army.
1) Heavy Grav cannons provide an answer to things like wraithknights that SoB just don't do efficiently.
2) Raiment of the Technomartyrs gives a pretty good answer to AA, just throw it into a decent sized unit of grav cannons and if it is a vehicle use The Scryerskull Perspicatus to reroll armour pen against it. The best part is you can GtG behind an ADL and still shoot at BS2.

I think there is a lot of synergy to be found especially with some of the formations.

Yeah had a little game against Cult Mechanicus today, and those Heavy Grav Cannons on the Kataphrons are nasty as gak especially if they have the Phosphor Cannons to reduce your Cover Saves too.

My other game I used my Black Templar allies for a Holy Ecclesiarchy Approved army and had some good fun. Had a Cannoness and two Ministorum Priests riding around in a Land Raider Crusader with an Artificer Armour/Relic Blade Captain and a Crusader Squad. Charging out with a blob of Marines into Close Combat, with the Priests providing Hatred, Re-rolls to Wound and re-rolls of failed saves is pretty fun. Glorious Moment of the Game - the Black Templar Captain and Initiates failing to kill any Assault Termies that charged me through cover, only for one Priest to step up to the Challenge of a TH/SS Terminator and kill it before it could strike (the Priests only armed with Chainswords mind you lol), while the other Priest killed 2 (!) Lightning Claw Terminators himself and then the Cannoness cleaned up the remaining 2 with her Eviscerator. Was hilarious.

I feel like when you ally something you want your allies to fill holes that your main army doesn't cover, not replace the stuff that already works. If not, why bring sisters at all, since they are a relatively weak army.

Grav cannons are insanely good, but they do the same job that th 20something S8 AP2/1 shots on the table already cover.

Acidian wrote:I feel like when you ally something you want your allies to fill holes that your main army doesn't cover, not replace the stuff that already works. If not, why bring sisters at all, since they are a relatively weak army.

Grav cannons are insanely good, but they do the same job that th 20something S8 AP2/1 shots on the table already cover.

Grav cannons are a weapon to kill MC or GMC. They can also be effective against FMC with the reroll to hit and cognis artifact. If you play SoB against nids or 2+ wraithknights you will very quickly realize that SoB have two major weaknesses; 1) they are very poor at dealing with MC and FMC, 2) board control against melee threats (aka why most SoB lists include an imperial knight now days).

SoB have a pretty good amount of Str8 AP1 however it is all relatively low rate of fire and has a very hard time getting reroll to hit to allow BS1 snap shots to hit FMC. You say SoB can get 20 Str8 AP1 shots and that is good enough but that is almost an entire army of SoB shooting mostly at short range. A single 165 pts heavy grav cannon cult unit can put out 18 heavy grav cannon shots at 30" range and will would a wraithknight on a 3+ rather than a 4+, this unit can also gain reroll to hits (of various levels) and can snap fire on BS2 therefore making an effective FMC killer.

The other great unit that can really benefit SoB is the Kastelan Robot Maniple...which no one gives credit for. This unit can put out 3-9 Str 10 attacks per Kastelan, depending on what abilities used. Most of the time these things would be putting out 5 attacks and 6 on the charge. Units of melee kastelans are actually really nasty for their damage and toughness. This might be a really good fit with SoB who often struggle with holding their ground against melee powerhouses like daemonkin of khorne.

GoonBandito wrote:Yeah had a little game against Cult Mechanicus today, and those Heavy Grav Cannons on the Kataphrons are nasty as gak especially if they have the Phosphor Cannons to reduce your Cover Saves too.

My other game I used my Black Templar allies for a Holy Ecclesiarchy Approved army and had some good fun. Had a Cannoness and two Ministorum Priests riding around in a Land Raider Crusader with an Artificer Armour/Relic Blade Captain and a Crusader Squad. Charging out with a blob of Marines into Close Combat, with the Priests providing Hatred, Re-rolls to Wound and re-rolls of failed saves is pretty fun. Glorious Moment of the Game - the Black Templar Captain and Initiates failing to kill any Assault Termies that charged me through cover, only for one Priest to step up to the Challenge of a TH/SS Terminator and kill it before it could strike (the Priests only armed with Chainswords mind you lol), while the other Priest killed 2 (!) Lightning Claw Terminators himself and then the Cannoness cleaned up the remaining 2 with her Eviscerator. Was hilarious.

Yeah they are pretty nasty however the units are farily fragile and lack the reroll and BS that make the centurion units so TAC devastating.

So I'm playing in a 1K point tournament today with a SoB/SM army. So far 1-1 vs. Necrons. First game reanimation protocols and amazing rolling from my opponent meant I didn't fully kill any unit. I could have still won if I'd moved a single unit back to the objective in my backfield. We had to call it turn 4 due to time being called. By turn 5 I could have had a scoring unit back where it needed to be. I had everyone of his models tied in melee other than some immortals who were running.

Thoughts: with no ruins to hide in on the table Space Marine scouts are worthless. Wraiths were a decent tarpit, but inflicted 0 damage. I need to remember Hit and Run lets me run through the guys I'm fighting. I could have been tearing out the center of his army turn 2 if I had. I almost swept his warlord and friends turn 3, but he rolled well.

Honestly the two grav guns in the bike squad aren't doing much, but the SM CM tanked really well. Most of the necron army hitting just him Turn did nothing.


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Game three was vs. orks. They had a lot of open topped vehicles... yeah. It went exactly as you'd expect lots of melta vs. open topped to go.

I kept both BSS embarked the whole game because I would have felt bad pointing out that I only about 25% of my force. (Would have tabled the orks on turn 6.)

It was one of the few times that having the initiative stolen from me went really well. I lost both grav gun bikers and the immolator turn 1. (I'd scouted forward onto the relic.)

Losing the immolator let me pick it up before starting to move my doms, but ultimately my initial plan of grabbing it and running with it was abandoned in favor of shooting megaNobz in the face with melta guns, then popping their AV14 transport. The doms were definitely they MVP in this one. They also snapfired the dakkajet out of the sky and held the relic the whole game.

With the grav gunners down, the SM chapter master was able to just fire his orbital strike at all the lootas hanging out in the back, killing 8 out of 9.

I think in the future, I will try to field him in a squad that doesn't make him want to shoot specific targets? The bikers were fine as T5, 3+/6+++ guys (which also hid Celestine), but a more melee focused squad would have synergized better and against T5 necrons with RP, I wished I had S10 to double them out (so SW guy on TW would have been way better there). OTOH, 6+++ and IWND meant my chaptermaster never went below 2/4 wounds. Celestine "died" twice, but never permanently.

In one game, it even allowed her to leave a combat involving the bulk of the necron army and the CM (who could easily shrug them all off) and go kill a squishier squad.

Celestine can only die once; the second is permanent.

 pretre wrote:
Celestine can only die once; the second is permanent.

I think he meant over the tournament as a whole?

oh, I'm dumb.

 curran12 wrote:
Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

Whenever it says "may take one item, or one of the following" it always means one and only one. Otherwise my broadsides can take skyfire, interceptor and feel no pain, but they can't


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When did grav cannons get an extra 6 inches on their range? According to the Sapce Marine 6th codex they are 24

jakejackjake wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

Whenever it says "may take one item, or one of the following" it always means one and only one. Otherwise my broadsides can take skyfire, interceptor and feel no pain, but they can't


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When did grav cannons get an extra 6 inches on their range? According to the Sapce Marine 6th codex they are 24

30" is the threat range. 6" move plus 24" range.

jakejackjake wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Hmmm, I read it as one item, pretre, but I'll be at my store today, will ask for their opinions as well.

Whenever it says "may take one item, or one of the following" it always means one and only one. Otherwise my broadsides can take skyfire, interceptor and feel no pain, but they can't


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When did grav cannons get an extra 6 inches on their range? According to the Sapce Marine 6th codex they are 24

Perhaps you are mixing up grav guns and cannons? Grav guns are 18" Grav cannons are 24"

I think they're talking about the mechanicus heavy grav cannon. It's got 6" more range and an extra shot, no?


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But without a grav amp, you're missing part of what makes Centurions so brutal.

I see yeah the cog heads get a heavy grav cannon which is technically a different weapon then a standard grav cannon.

Are the Marines confirmed for heavy grav cannons?

I think so. I'm not sure why GW thought they would need more grav, but...

Maybe they misspelled gravy as grav because in my experience you can never have enough gravy

Firsty i must salute the combined effort generated that made this monster of a thread possible.
Secondly if i may present the thread with my conumdrum.
I am a long time Guard player and have a smattering of Inquisition models. I was always interested in Sisters but the prices.... Now howevver Icame upon a deal and I wander if the models i have picked are any good in a list.
Celestine
10 sisters in a Multimelta Immolator with 2 Melta guns
7 Seraphim w/ 2 hand Flamers
5 Retibutors w/ 4 H. Bolters.
It comes at a measly 506 points and was wandering a) if it is a good setup, b) how can i expetct it to interact with my Mech Vets, ABG tank collumn and Horde Guard.

Double Post...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/wargames-gallery-5-31-15-strafing-run.html

It's good feeling to wake up on your birthday to find that a model of yours was the pic of the day.

konst80hummel wrote:
10 sisters in a Multimelta Immolator with 2 Melta guns

My knowledge of tactics could be inscribed upon a (particularly small) pin, so I'll just mention a rules issue: immolatars can only fit 6 models, not 10.
The sisters can still take the dedicated transport, it's just they're too many to actually use the transport. They retain the option because Reasons.

Thanks for pointing that out. and the plan is to march them behind Helhounds/ Chimeras so maybe i can hide them.

konst80hummel wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out. and the plan is to march them behind Helhounds/ Chimeras so maybe i can hide them.

The better tactics for Sisters is to have those 10 model in a Rhino, driving 12"+ turbo on the first turn, and then driving around getting your 2 Meltas in range of things. If you have a mechanised army, get them all to keep up.
This works best with 5-girls squads though, as you still get 2 Melta guns, and whether you have 5 or 10, once your Rhino blows and you get charged, the results are usually the same. Unless of course you get 8-9 of them and fit a priest in that mix.
Then you have armour re-rolls, and that usually makes you pretty tar-pitting.

If you have 5-girl squads (+priest) then the immolator is also an option.

In any case, that 1 Unit within your mechanised IG will attract attention, so either ride up on a flank, or block LoS/give cover with a chimera driving in front.

Secondly, if your Warlord is another model, Celestine+Seraphim can run around flame stuff and charge stuff to their hearts content (and Deep Strike quite happily)

I would echo that except I'd say 'Repressor'. Wall of AV13 go!

 pretre wrote:
I would echo that except I'd say 'Repressor'. Wall of AV13 go!

Adding a Repressor between Leman Russes?

It sounds like the AM army is mostly: " the plan is to march them behind Helhounds/ Chimeras"

Or are those AV 13?
[EDIT] Missed the "ABG column" part

Hellhounds/Chimeras are AV12.

For that mix of Sisters, I'd organize them like this in a single allied detachment:

HQ: Celestine
Troops: 5 BSS, no upgrades
Fast Attack: 5 Dominions, 2 meltas, Immolator
Heavy: 5 Retributors, Heavy Bolters

This lets you make the most out of the models you have. You'll get two ignore cover melta shots to support your AM advance and Celestine should get out of LOS behind all the vehicles pretty easily.

Once you look at expanding, I'd pick up a HF and flamer model for the troops as well as a Rhino or Repressor for them. I'd also pick up the two extra meltas for the dominions. Last thing would be to upgrade the Immolator to a Repressor.

As an aside, anyone looking to sell a couple of Repressors?

PanzerLeader wrote:
As an aside, anyone looking to sell a couple of Repressors?

Everyone wants them and no-one is selling. :(

Conversions!