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@ Mavans: The tradeoff you have to make in building that unit is between killing power, survivability and mobility. Most units with high killing power are corresponding lower when it comes to survivability. This is especially true in melee situations where invulnerable saves are relatively rare on rank and file models.

So for comparison quick comparison:
5 hammer/shield terminators, landraider = 430 points
5 thunderwolves with fists and shields = 400 points

Mobility advantage is about equal in this set up, with a slight edge for the wolves because of fleet. The termis are vulnerable to being stranded if the raider is destroyed early and have a smaller threat range on the turn they disembark and charge because the wolves have fleet. Termis can gain a little bit of an edge if you use WS chapter tactics to give them hit and run and reroll run distances.

Survivability is also about equal, with an advantage for the terminators. The extra pip of toughness for the wolves is offset by better armor save of the terminators. The wolves have the extra wound, but the terminators real advantage is that while embarked on the landraider, they can't be targeted at all while the wolves can be attrited through focused enemy firepower. This makes it much more likely for the terminators to reach their target at full strength.

Killing power: At 4 S10 attacks each, clear advantage to the wolves. Termis get a small boost if you use UM tactics but not enough to make them better.

On an initial look, I'd say the wolves are what you want but the next step is to put your unit into the context of your list. If you're running heavily mechanized sisters, the land raider and terminators might be your better option. It would add to your vehicle saturation and take the limited dedicated anti-tank weapons fire off your dominions. The wolves, being exposed by nature, would be the only viable target for his anti-infantry weapons and I'm not sure it would have the desired effect of pulling fire off your approaching meltas because there isn't any competing demand in the weapons required to handle each threat.

The comparison between chapter master and wolf lord is very straight up. Equally mobile, the wolf lord kills more but the chapter master can tie up any unit in the game by himself for multiple turns unless it as a "D" close combat weapon because he just doesn't die.

If I built a land raider, it would contain that DCA/Crusader/Priest/Inq squad I keep fantasizing about not terminators. (Mainly because I like the idea of Psybolt ammo and at some point I bought FW Inquisition Landraider Doors.)

In the above comparison though, don't terminators have a single wound? If so, survivability is clearly on the side of the TWC unless the opponent just can't handle AV14. At any rate, I wouldn't pay that many points for the unit itself. Frost axes will be just as effective in many situations and Frost Swords hitting at S6 AP3 at initiative might be more effective against everything but super hard deathstars. My biggest problem with a PF/Shield TW is that against bolter fire/other massed fire, he's still just T5, 3+, two wounds, but costs 80 points. One thing I like about bikers is that Jink makes buying shields less necessary. So I keep toying with the idea of IH command squads for the 4+++ and Jink.

I mean I would like to run a heavily mechanized sisters list, but I'm just not there yet in terms of number of painted transports.

Mavnas wrote:
If I built a land raider, it would contain that DCA/Crusader/Priest/Inq squad I keep fantasizing about not terminators. (Mainly because I like the idea of Psybolt ammo and at some point I bought FW Inquisition Landraider Doors.)

In the above comparison though, don't terminators have a single wound? If so, survivability is clearly on the side of the TWC unless the opponent just can't handle AV14. At any rate, I wouldn't pay that many points for the unit itself. Frost axes will be just as effective in many situations and Frost Swords hitting at S6 AP3 at initiative might be more effective against everything but super hard deathstars. My biggest problem with a PF/Shield TW is that against bolter fire/other massed fire, he's still just T5, 3+, two wounds, but costs 80 points. One thing I like about bikers is that Jink makes buying shields less necessary. So I keep toying with the idea of IH command squads for the 4+++ and Jink.

I mean I would like to run a heavily mechanized sisters list, but I'm just not there yet in terms of number of painted transports.

The advantage is that your opponent would have to deal with the AV14 separately before even thinking of going after the contents. That's way more valuable than the 2nd wound. Especially when you consider that his best anti-teq weapons are also the ones needed to reliably kill AV14.

What's in your typical list? If you dont have a lot of mechanized threats, the TWC would be a great fit. I'd go at least 50% power fists though. AP2 is invaluable and S10 is what makes them amazing at crushing Decurion necrons.

Bikers won't do what you're looking for in combat without shields. The type of units you're looking to tie up will bypass 3+ saves and leave you with only the FNP. Command squads are worse than ravenwing in assault too (only S4, no rending).


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@ pretre: Wargamescon full standings are up on Frontline Gaming's Web Page now. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fUrVUkmmHEkdQeQtdlXjhc9LZfrXBP8j1snHrqHy1_g/edit?pli=1#gid=834612539

Command squads have power weapons on every model if I'm paying 40 points per, but yeah they're mostly there so my CM and Celestine aren't taking 100% of the damage. (Or rather so that when the CM is in a challenge someone can eat the S6+ hits for Celestine... I could see the shields being good there and the TWC getting the better deal since each shield covers two wounds.)

The termis don't let me bring Celestine forward safely.

And yes last time I faced a Decurion I really wished I had S10 :( Though I could have won without it if I had been paying closer attention to objectives or had played fast enough to let the game last past turn 4.

So, I've had a few Sisters minis for a while, but rarely ever get to bring them out because of the incompleteness of my collection. Looking for some advice on what to prioritize getting to get a workable list.

What i have:

Saint Celestine
A priest
4 Crusaders, 2 Arco-flagellants
Sister Superior with Storm Bolter and Chainsword
Sister Superior with Plasma Pistol and Chainsword
Sister Superior with Bolter and Power Sword
11 Battle Sisters with Bolters
4 Battle Sisters with Heavy Bolters
5 Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters
1 Battle Sister with flamer
2x Seraphim Superior with Power sword and Bolt Pistol
6 Seraphim with dual Bolt Pistols
2 Seraphim with dual Hand flamers
Exorcist
3 Rhinos

I usually run it as an allied detachment for my Grey Knights with Saint Celestine, 10 Sisters with a flamer, the retributor squad OR the exorcist, and 9 seraphim with 2 dual hand flamers and am looking to make it a standalone army of it's own.

my current thoughts are:
4 melta sisters
another flamer sister
2 heavy flamer sisters
a sister superior (with whatever loadout)

That would let me run:
Celestine
2 5 man Sisters squads with flamer/heavy flamer each (in Rhinos)
a Dominion squad with 4 meltas in a rhino
2 Seraphim squads with a dual flamer sister each
a Retributor squad with 4 heavy bolters (Might get an Aegis defense line for these?)
an Exorcist

Does this sound like a sound plan or would I be better off acquiring something else?

Rihgu wrote:
So, I've had a few Sisters minis for a while, but rarely ever get to bring them out because of the incompleteness of my collection. Looking for some advice on what to prioritize getting to get a workable list.

What i have:

Saint Celestine
A priest
4 Crusaders, 2 Arco-flagellants
Sister Superior with Storm Bolter and Chainsword
Sister Superior with Plasma Pistol and Chainsword
Sister Superior with Bolter and Power Sword
11 Battle Sisters with Bolters
4 Battle Sisters with Heavy Bolters
5 Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters
1 Battle Sister with flamer
2x Seraphim Superior with Power sword and Bolt Pistol
6 Seraphim with dual Bolt Pistols
2 Seraphim with dual Hand flamers
Exorcist
3 Rhinos

I usually run it as an allied detachment for my Grey Knights with Saint Celestine, 10 Sisters with a flamer, the retributor squad OR the exorcist, and 9 seraphim with 2 dual hand flamers and am looking to make it a standalone army of it's own.

my current thoughts are:
4 melta sisters
another flamer sister
2 heavy flamer sisters
a sister superior (with whatever loadout)

That would let me run:
Celestine
2 5 man Sisters squads with flamer/heavy flamer each (in Rhinos)
a Dominion squad with 4 meltas in a rhino
2 Seraphim squads with a dual flamer sister each
a Retributor squad with 4 heavy bolters (Might get an Aegis defense line for these?)
an Exorcist

Does this sound like a sound plan or would I be better off acquiring something else?

Not bad. Here is my thoughts if you willing to take it:

1 - You need to understand that the only good way to play Sister is to be aggressive. I mean super aggressive. Parking a retribution squad w/ 4 HB behind a line will get you no where. The only good way to use Retributor is to put them in a Rihno w/ 4 Heavy flamer. Also, move your exorcist as per the situation. If its missile launcher is heavy and not ordnance is to allow you to move it around.

2 - For the Dominion, 4 MG is best you are right how ever keep in mind that they are a suicide squad. Better put them in a immolator to put move pressure on your opponent.

3 - Make a single 1 women squad of 10 seraphim and 2 HF to escort Celestine. Deep strike them be him enemy line.

4 - Troops chose, if you go for 5 women squad forget the rhino and go for immolator.

That doesn't look too bad. Another Exorcist, as well as looking at converting one of those Rhinos to a Repressor for your Dominions is probably the only thing I'd recommend. Though if you can stretch for another Dominion Squad, I'd run that instead of a 2nd Seraphim squad. Maybe you could count-as the Storm Bolter Sisters as Melta Gun Sisters?

Yeah, I would definitely argue for the double doms squads.

 Xenophon00 wrote:


4 - Troops chose, if you go for 5 women squad forget the rhino and go for immolator.

I strongly disagree with this. You want to keep your fragile, yet importantly ObSec, units off the board for as long as possible. A Rhino lets you shoot the squads double specials out of the top hatch while keeping them alive longer.

I'd also second going with at least two dominion squads and adding a second exorcist. The more armor on the field, the more difficult for your opponent to clean it all up.

And, not to beat a dead horse, but everything the Rhino does the Repressor does better. BSS in Reps is great.

 pretre wrote:
And, not to beat a dead horse, but everything the Rhino does the Repressor does better. BSS in Reps is great.

Everything except be cheap (pointswise) and available without having to do a conversion.

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
And, not to beat a dead horse, but everything the Rhino does the Repressor does better. BSS in Reps is great.

Everything except be cheap (pointswise) and available without having to do a conversion.

True, but those 35 points are 100% worth it and the conversion is easy.

Thanks for the advice all. Only thing holding me back from the Repressors is that I don't have the material to convert them with and Forgeworld is out of stock (and has been for a long time. When I emailed them they told me Dark Eldar pirates had intercepted their shipment but they'll email me when they get some more)

Other than that, I could probably do some counts-as to keep things within my budget.
My current plan after advice:
flamer sister
2 heavy flamer sisters
Immolator

Run the storm bolter sisters as Dominions in the Immolator
Run 2 squads of 5 sisters with Heavy Flamer and Flamer each in Rhinos
Run Celestine with 9 Seraphim (2 of which have dual handflamers)

Which gives me about 850pts... which is sad considering how much I have invested already... Probably going to supplement that with a Knight Crusader.

True, but those 35 points are 100% worth it and the conversion is easy.

I've seen several ways on how to do the conversion but none of them really seemed easy to me. I may just be overthinking it (also I don't think any of the ones I saw actually gave step-by-step instructions or even patterns for the plasticard they used...)

Rihgu wrote:
Thanks for the advice all. Only thing holding me back from the Repressors is that I don't have the material to convert them with and Forgeworld is out of stock (and has been for a long time. When I emailed them they told me Dark Eldar pirates had intercepted their shipment but they'll email me when they get some more)

Get a leman russ dozer blade, penitent driver and an immolator kit and you're good to go.

I've seen several ways on how to do the conversion but none of them really seemed easy to me. I may just be overthinking it (also I don't think any of the ones I saw actually gave step-by-step instructions or even patterns for the plasticard they used...)

Check out my post in the Repressor thread or this one. Super easy.

I've been making my repressors out of Vindicator kits. whole thing has the dozer blade, upgraded armor, and two of the firing points. Just need to add the other fire-points. The way I've built mine, uses the demolisher cannon fire-point as a ram. When I have one done I'll post the pics.

That sounds expensive, but awesome.

A Repressor only has 2 fire points, right? The part I'm worried about is the bulked up back, which IMHO is what makes the Repressor a Repressor.

I like the idea of putting a penitent on the front, pretre, but I would still consider that a rhino myself. I'd also have to find penitents :(

Rihgu wrote:
A Repressor only has 2 fire points, right? The part I'm worried about is the bulked up back, which IMHO is what makes the Repressor a Repressor.

I like the idea of putting a penitent on the front, pretre, but I would still consider that a rhino myself. I'd also have to find penitents :(

Repressor has 2 plus 6 (3 on each side).

My rhinos are stock rhinos (no immo kit).
My repressors are immo kit rhinos plus all the bits. Makes a larger profile and very distinct on the tabletop. Never had a problem with it.

 pretre wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
A Repressor only has 2 fire points, right? The part I'm worried about is the bulked up back, which IMHO is what makes the Repressor a Repressor.

I like the idea of putting a penitent on the front, pretre, but I would still consider that a rhino myself. I'd also have to find penitents :(

Repressor has 2 plus 6 (3 on each side).

My rhinos are stock rhinos (no immo kit).
My repressors are immo kit rhinos plus all the bits. Makes a larger profile and very distinct on the tabletop. Never had a problem with it.

Are these the latest rules? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf
Shows 2 fire points

I had forgotten that the immolator kit came with the raised part, I'll look into it some more. Might still be pretty expensive between the kit, the dozer blade bit, and the penitent...

Those are not the latest rules. The latest are in IA2.


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Rihgu wrote:
. Might still be pretty expensive between the kit, the dozer blade bit, and the penitent...

Well, the kit you need for immos/rhinos anyways. Most SOB players have plenty of PE drivers since the kit came with two per model. And any IG player worth their salt has tons of extra LR dozers. It was not expensive to build.

And it was MUCH cheaper than the actual repressor, if it was sold any where legit on the planet.

Wow! If it really has that many fire points, it looks like Repressor would be the obvious choice for Dominions. Let's you shoot all 4 meltas from the safety of the AV13! That's crazy!

With your conversion, what did you do for the turrent mounted Storm Bolter? Did you just mount it on a pintle like the Heavy Flamer?

Rihgu wrote:
Wow! If it really has that many fire points, it looks like Repressor would be the obvious choice for Dominions. Let's you shoot all 4 meltas from the safety of the AV13! That's crazy!

Well, technically you're gonna have to angle the Repressor to open up the side fire points since there is only 2 fire points in the front arc, meaning you're probably gonna have an AV11 arc pointed towards the enemy. Still alot safer than disembarking to be able to fire the 4 meltas though.

Yeah. Repressor conversions are next on my list. AV13 is just too good in the current S6 and below shooting meta.

I kind of tend to assume that my vehicles will be ignored or they will pop regardless of AV, but then I'm the guy with the 12 Meltaguns in a 1K point game...

Rihgu wrote:
Wow! If it really has that many fire points, it looks like Repressor would be the obvious choice for Dominions. Let's you shoot all 4 meltas from the safety of the AV13! That's crazy!

With your conversion, what did you do for the turrent mounted Storm Bolter? Did you just mount it on a pintle like the Heavy Flamer?

There's a turret SB on the IMmolator kit. I use that and put a heavy flamer on it.


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THat's the older version of it. I replaced the dozer blades with LR ones since they are bigger and better.

The issue I'd have with those is that I don't see the side fire points on them.

Mavnas wrote:
The issue I'd have with those is that I don't see the side fire points on them.

The little windows are pretty much perfect for that. (white on my models).


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There's three on one side and two on the other (so one side, you can really only fire two out the top and two out the side).

So I finally got a game in with my sisters.

1,500 pts vs CW eldar

I had:

Celestine
-------8 seripham
-----------Vet sup w/power sword
-----------2x twin hand flamers

Canoness (Warlord)
---Evicerator
---Rosarius
---Eternal Warrior Relic

Priest
---Litanies of faith
---Power Maul

Priest
---Book of St. Lucius
---Power Maul

5 BSS
---Hvy Flamer
---Flamer
------Repressor

5 BSS
---Hvy Flamer
---Flamer
------Repressor

20 BSS
---Vet Sup w/power sword
---Hvy Flamer
---Flamer
---Simulacrum
------ w/ canoness
------w/ 2x priests

8 dominons
---4x melta
---Simulacrum
------Repressor

10 Retributors
---4x Hvy Bolters
---Similuacrum

Exorcist

Eldar army

Maugin Ra
Avatar (warlord)
Spirit Seer
---Sniper rifle relic

Dire Avenger Formation:
---------------3x 5 dire avengers
-----------------------w/exarchs

7 Wraith Blades (Ghost axe/force shields)

5 Dark Reapers
---Exarch
------tempest launcher
------fast short

Wraith fighter

Completely forgot his twin-missiles Wraith Lord

Highlights

Canoness killed Ra in CC with her eviserator (With the help of both priests prayers)

Avatar walked the length of the board and killed the Retributers (who kept failing their act of faith)

Repressors Shield of faith stopped MULTIPLE D-weapon shots. (From heavy d-scyths)

You win? EIther way, nice job.

Yeah, I managed to pull an 11-5 on tactical objectives. We pretty much wiped each other out doing it though.