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 pretre wrote:
It gets worse.

YOu can take 5 Celestines and 22 Seraphim at 1500. The seraphim could have a 2++ rerollable and you could use them to screen.

Plus there are all sorts of weird interactions with the Geminae. You can transfer them to different celestines and when you respawn celestine she could go next to any of them. Of course, if you fail your respawn, all your geminae disappear (from all the celestines)

At least the turn after losing all the geminae, you still can resurect 4 of them with the other Celestine

Now.... where is that damn rule that will kill this Oh-so-funny concept....

P.S.: I didnt realized that Celestine resurect immediately, and not at the start of the next turn like it used to be. Which means she can now die, resurect and die again in the same turn if the ennemy can pull it off. That's a bummer.

I don't think there is a RAW argument against it. It needs to be FAQ'd. For now though, SOB are the most OP army.

on a slightly more conventional note.

How about...

Spearhead detachment.
2x Canoness
2x Imagifier
2x Rets, HBs
3x Exorcist

820 points

Putting a Canoness and Imagifiers between the Exos and the Rets infront of the characters to add more dakka and tank wounds.

A nice little fire base giving you re-roll ones to hit on everything and 2x 50/50 chance of double shooting the Rets.

And if you really want to get crazy, if an exorcist fluffs it's D6 shots on like a 1 or a 2 spend a command point and reroll it.

Drider wrote:
on a slightly more conventional note.

How about...

Spearhead detachment.
2x Canoness
2x Imagifier
2x Rets, HBs
3x Exorcist

820 points

Putting a Canoness and Imagifiers between the Exos and the Rets infront of the characters to add more dakka and tank wounds.

A nice little fire base giving you re-roll ones to hit on everything and 2x 50/50 chance of double shooting the Rets.

And if you really want to get crazy, if an exorcist fluffs it's D6 shots on like a 1 or a 2 spend a command point and reroll it.

Although I would split that into two spearheads and bring more HB rets and imagifers.

The imagifers work on the Exorcists, btw.

I think I posted the Spearhead spam list a page or so ago.

Yeah, you could totally expand this up the way to make a gunline list. We're probably still a bit meh at gunlines in the grand scheme of things but it's a lot more doable without having to pay a troop tax for every 3 heavy slots.

I was reading that whole exchange about the imagifiers.... My opinion is that it doesn't work like that. how can a unit without Keyword AoF use AoF even though the imagifier and AoF wording is so loose. If GW FAQ it and say it's legit then i'm totally spamming imagifiers and penitent engines. double move those bitches all over the table.

Penitent Engines don't have Order as a keyword, so it wouldn't work on them.

Act of faith is not a keyword. Its a special rule some models have.


Penitent engines do not have the Order keyword so no luck using AOF on them.

- Acts of Faith. Hoo boy. I am going to type out the rules for this since this will get nit-picky.

"Acts of Faith

Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the acts of faith ability can perform an act of faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one act of faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith.

Hand: The unit can immediately move as if it were the movement phase.

DG: The unit can immediately shoot as if it were the shooting phase.

Passion: The unit can, if it is within 1" of an enemy unit, immediately pile in and attack as if it were the fight phase.

Spirit: One model in the unit recovers D3 lost wounds, or you can return a single slain model to the unit with 1 wound remaining."

Okay, so one unit, anywhere on the battlefield with the AoF ability (which is just the infantry basically, Celestine, Canoness, Imagifer, Hospitaller, Dialogus, BSS, Seraphim, Celestians, Repentia, Mistress of Repentance, Retributors, Dominions) gets to do one of those acts per turn.

Now here's the fun part.

Celestine: "at the start of any of your turns, you can pick a friendly Adepta Sororitas unit within 6" of Celestine and perform an act of faith with it. This is in addition to the act of faith you are normally allowed to perform in a turn."

Imagifer: "Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns; on a 4+ you can pick a friendly <Order> unit within 6" of this model and perform an act of faith iwth it. This is in addition to the act of faith you are normally allowed to use in a turn."


So both Celestine and Imagifer modify who is targetable by the Act of Faith special rule. Who, you might ask, in your army has the 'Adepta Sororitas' rule? Well, everyone I listed above, plus: Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist. Same is true for the Ordo special rule.

This all makes sense to me.

One of them is free and is a little limited in it's application while the others are more flexible given that you are paying for them.

For 40 points you get one on a 4+
For 250 points you get one automatically without having to roll.

I could see them releasing other, more expensive models, that give you one on a 3+ or even special units doing this forcing us to buy new models eventually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disembark:

Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked within a transport can disembark before the transport moves...


Acts of Faith

Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the Act of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list....

There are distinctive terms in the rules now to define the following:

A Battle Round is Two turns
A turn is 6 phases
A phase can be Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight or Morale

Now, the Start of your Turn is not a phase itself. Its the Start of your turn.
A unit cannot Disembark in the Movement Phase if the transport moved.

If your transport moved at the Start of your turn, it did not do so in the Movement phase, as such you are allowed to disembark before your transport moves in the Movement Phase.


The same seems to be true for Dominions. They are moving before any phases have begun. They can as such move 12 with their special rule and disembark before the transport moves in the next phase


Is there a way to contradict this RAW?

I think that's a good read.

Drider wrote:
Yeah, you could totally expand this up the way to make a gunline list. We're probably still a bit meh at gunlines in the grand scheme of things but it's a lot more doable without having to pay a troop tax for every 3 heavy slots.

I was reading that whole exchange about the imagifiers.... My opinion is that it doesn't work like that. how can a unit without Keyword AoF use AoF even though the imagifier and AoF wording is so loose. If GW FAQ it and say it's legit then i'm totally spamming imagifiers and penitent engines. double move those bitches all over the table.

If it was just imagifiers I would think it was a mistake but celestine's is also very specific so I think it's deliberate and frankly completely brilliant design.

Is it still possible to add a single Imperial Knight to a battalion force?

Also, other than for command points, is there a reason to bring Troops Sisters anymore?

There's a LOW detachment that you could add.

And no.

 pretre wrote:
There's a LOW detachment that you could add.

And no.

You're gonna want them if you do a gunline style list because they're cheap bubblewrap to stop first turn charges.

You will want Sisters once there are enough stratagems that are worth maximizing command points for.

Right now they are fairly lackluster

ERJAK wrote:

 pretre wrote:
There's a LOW detachment that you could add.

And no.

You're gonna want them if you do a gunline style list because they're cheap bubblewrap to stop first turn charges.

Retributors are just as cheap and can take 4 heavies. I'd rather take groups of them for bubble wrap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voldrak wrote:
You will want Sisters once there are enough stratagems that are worth maximizing command points for.

Right now they are fairly lackluster

Yeah, if they add some stratagem better than what we have, I'll think about it. Right now, I just save it for rerolls on Celestine's return.

 pretre wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 pretre wrote:
There's a LOW detachment that you could add.

And no.

You're gonna want them if you do a gunline style list because they're cheap bubblewrap to stop first turn charges.

Retributors are just as cheap and can take 4 heavies. I'd rather take groups of them for bubble wrap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voldrak wrote:
You will want Sisters once there are enough stratagems that are worth maximizing command points for.

Right now they are fairly lackluster

Yeah, if they add some stratagem better than what we have, I'll think about it. Right now, I just save it for rerolls on Celestine's return.

Being able to take 4 heavies isn't as big as the 5 extra bodies, especially since you wouldn't take that many in a unit meant to die. That said, the could have definitely done more with the basic battlesister.

So here's a quick 2000pt mechanized list I put together. I've always enjoyed playing mech with my Sisters...

Celestine
Canoness, plasma pistol
5 Sisters, Immolator, multimelta
5 Sisters, Immolator, multimelta
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Knight Crusader, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Rapidfire Battle Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubbers

This list gives 3 CPs, and my 2 AoF per turn will be used to shoot 2 Exorcists prior to the Shooting Phase
Celestine and the Canoness can set up close to the Exorcists to give them 5++ and mini twin-linked (reroll to-hits of 1)

 davidgr33n wrote:
So here's a quick 2000pt mechanized list I put together. I've always enjoyed playing mech with my Sisters...

Celestine
Canoness, plasma pistol
5 Sisters, Immolator, multimelta
5 Sisters, Immolator, multimelta
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
5 Sisters, Immolator, Immo Flamer
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Knight Crusader, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Rapidfire Battle Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubbers

This list gives 3 CPs, and my 2 AoF per turn will be used to shoot 2 Exorcists prior to the Shooting Phase
Celestine and the Canoness can set up close to the Exorcists to give them 5++ and mini twin-linked (reroll to-hits of 1)

Turn AoF can't be used on vehicles. Only Celestine's and imagifiers.

My attempt at double vanguard:


Celestine Geminae Geminae
15 Battle Sisters Heavy Flamer Flamer Combi-Flamer
Imagifier
Imagifier
5 Dominions Flamer Flamer Melta Melta Combi-Flamer
5 Dominions Flamer Flamer Melta Melta Combi-Flamer
Rhino Stormbolter Stormbolter
10 Seraphims Hand Flamers Hand Flamers Plasma Pistol Power Sword
Exorcist HKM


Canoness
Imagifier
5 Seraphims Hand Flamers Hand Flamers
5 Seraphims Hand Flamers Hand Flamers
5 Seraphims Hand Flamers Hand Flamers
5 Seraphims Hand Flamers Hand Flamers
5 Dominions Flamer Flamer Melta Melta Combi-Flamer
5 Dominions Flamer Flamer Melta Melta Combi-Flamer
Rhino Stormbolter Stormbolter
Exorcist HKM


Dominions squads are going in pairs in the two rhinos available. Once these squads come out, it's a lot of concentrated firepower.

Plenty of fast moving troops to jump on objectives and a squad of sisters to stay behind and provide a line of defense so the Exorcists don't get charged.

I'm not sure how much I like doubling up in vehicles. Seems like an eggs in one basket situation.

Agreed, it's risky, especially if you end up going second.

Those two transports saved however are extra seraphim squads on the table whom have an easier time staying alive in cover than those transports might have.




I am honestly so hyped to play my first game right now. Once we have more data on how we play against other armies we will be able to optimize.

I think with the consistently high damage and good survivability it has an immo could function as a ghetto dominion squad that's just really freakin fast. HB immos are actually pretty darn cheap for how much mobile firepower you get out of them.

Gonna be an interesting goddam edition that's for sure

Yeah, I was looking at HB immos with an extra SB for funsies.

I don't like double vanguard/spearhead/outrider because I want to have re-rolls for Celestine, for Exorcists, and for Acts of Faith. Celestine now has a 1-in-6 chance of not coming back compared to a 1-in-12. I also want re-rolls for the Exorcists, to give me a more consistent output. Short of 2500, I don't think I'll be able to get the Brigade, so Battalion+Spearhead+Outrider seems decent to me.

Would trading out 3 Battle Sisters Squads at 175 Ea, for an additional Exorcists or Dominions or such be worth the 2 CP?

Yes. You get 3 CP to start with. You get 2 from double Outrider/Vanguard/Spearhead.

Save one for getting Celestine back up and use the others for crucial rerolls.

It isn't worth taking all those BSS when you can get better squads for the same cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow. So I was curious. Can you fit an effective Brigade in 1500? Yep.

C&G - 250
Canoness - 45
Canoness - 45
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
Imag - 40
Imag - 40
Imag - 40
5 Sera, 2 HF - 79
5 Sera, 2 HF - 79
5 Sera, 2 HF - 79
10 BSS - 90
10 BSS - 90
10 BSS - 90
10 BSS - 90
10 BSS - 90
10 BSS - 90
1492

 pretre wrote:
- Acts of Faith. Hoo boy. I am going to type out the rules for this since this will get nit-picky.

"Acts of Faith

Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the acts of faith ability can perform an act of faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one act of faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith.

Hand: The unit can immediately move as if it were the movement phase.

DG: The unit can immediately shoot as if it were the shooting phase.

Passion: The unit can, if it is within 1" of an enemy unit, immediately pile in and attack as if it were the fight phase.

Spirit: One model in the unit recovers D3 lost wounds, or you can return a single slain model to the unit with 1 wound remaining."

Okay, so one unit, anywhere on the battlefield with the AoF ability (which is just the infantry basically, Celestine, Canoness, Imagifer, Hospitaller, Dialogus, BSS, Seraphim, Celestians, Repentia, Mistress of Repentance, Retributors, Dominions) gets to do one of those acts per turn.

Now here's the fun part.

Celestine: "at the start of any of your turns, you can pick a friendly Adepta Sororitas unit within 6" of Celestine and perform an act of faith with it. This is in addition to the act of faith you are normally allowed to perform in a turn."

Imagifer: "Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns; on a 4+ you can pick a friendly <Order> unit within 6" of this model and perform an act of faith iwth it. This is in addition to the act of faith you are normally allowed to use in a turn."


So both Celestine and Imagifer modify who is targetable by the Act of Faith special rule. Who, you might ask, in your army has the 'Adepta Sororitas' rule? Well, everyone I listed above, plus: Rhino, Immolator, Exorcist. Same is true for the Ordo special rule.

They can't be modified by Celestine of Imagifiers, but Crusaders also gain access to your once per turn Acts of Faith now.

I'm been wondering about immo spam. With Immolation flamers you're looking at 24+D6 threat range before you even factor in stuff like vanguard moves.

 pretre wrote:
I'm not sure how much I like doubling up in vehicles. Seems like an eggs in one basket situation.

Agreed, and if the vehicle goes boom before it delivers its payload you could potentially lose both units.

Taikishi wrote:

They can't be modified by Celestine of Imagifiers, but Crusaders also gain access to your once per turn Acts of Faith now.

Good catch on the crusaders. I hadn't noticed that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drider wrote:
I'm been wondering about immo spam. With Immolation flamers you're looking at 24+D6 threat range before you even factor in stuff like vanguard moves.

The problem is how expensive they are.