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So I've really gotten an interest lately in dropzone commander and the two factions I'm having difficulty decideing are the PHR and the UCM as I like both of there stories alot , and here's what I want to know

• What are the differences game wise between the UCM and the PHR ?

• PHR infantry seems very powerful is this true ?

• I recall something about UCM legionaries having AT rockets is this correct ? And the PHR having anti-material rifles with the shaped charge rule , anyone care to explain ?


• from an asthetic standpoint it seems as if the PHR would be incredibly slow is this true ?

• I head something about troops Fast roping in from gunships , is this only certain units or an all troops fast rope into buildings ?





Thanks ahead of time , much appreciated

What are the differences game wise between the UCM and the PHR ?

PHR are extremely slow (although Apollos help), fairly resilient, and tend to have great specialists. UCM tend to be more all-rounders. They are decent at everything, poor at none, and their specialists tend not to be as good (although do not mistake that to mean they are bad).

PHR infantry seems very powerful is this true ?

I would classify PHR infantry as better than UCM and Scourge in close quarters combat and at shooting enemy infantry, but their lower strength sniper rifle loses them a bit of versatility against armored targets. Sirens, their elites, are considered the some of the best elites in the game (if not the best).

I recall something about UCM legionaries having AT rockets is this correct ? And the PHR having anti-material rifles with the shaped charge rule , anyone care to explain ?

UCM infantry have phoenix missiles that are decent anti-tank (with poor range) and decent anti-building while PHR infantry have an anti-material rifle with a pretty mediocre strength (with shaped charge that allows it a chance to hurt anything, think rending) that has a much better range vs countered targets (like vehicles) at 18". The sniper rifle is also better against infantry if the enemy decides not to hide in cover.

from an asthetic standpoint it seems as if the PHR would be incredibly slow is this true ?

They are slow; this is true. It is one of the faction's weaknesses.

I head something about troops Fast roping in from gunships , is this only certain units or an all troops fast rope into buildings ?

This is only UCM Praetorians.

Note: UCM is easier to play than the PHR. Because the PHR are so slow in an objective based game you have to do a lot off tactical planning ahead of time. Think of them as an ambling castle. You drop on the objectives you need to win, blow up the others, and hold your ground.

You.Are.Awesome .


1) So since I play Imperial Guard in war hammer 40k do you think that I would perhaps be better with the UCM play style ?

2) So when you refer to the AT missiles being short ranged can you give me a ball park of shot what that is ? And a comparison to other weapons ? You also said they Are fairly powerful is that around Energy 8 ? Seems like you could only harm light vehicles with it


3) With Dropzone commander how powerful are Fast-movers I'm gameplay terms ? I've seen how they are used but haven't fully seem their effectiveness

4) with the AT missiles , are they a one launcher per squad deal like the PHR anti-material rifle or do multiple members have them- further more are the missiles expendable items or when you buy them they stay throughout the battle (like missile launchers in 40k )

5) From what I've seen and heard Sabre tanks are Just evil , energy 10 shots with 10 armor sounds good but I don't have a scale of the fame

6) Which is more viable do you think ?
a) legionaries with AT rockets zipping foward in a raven to throw rockets down in the enemy ? From what I've seen Ravens make terrible support Craft fire support wise

b) PHR Immortals loaded in a ...(can't remember the name light Dropship) because those can take alot more firepower on them ?


I really appreciate the response !

If i was you id go ucm if you take ucm infantry in ravens dont put missles on them you need to keep them alive to extract the infantry. With the legionaries missles each base gets one and it lasts the whole game ammo wise. Fast movers can be dangerous but need to be used tactically to really work.
Sabres are really tough with good fire power.

1) So since I play Imperial Guard in war hammer 40k do you think that I would perhaps be better with the UCM play style ?

There are enough similarities that I think this would be fair to say. Just know that mechanization is a huge part of this game and that you will not have hordes of foot slogging infantry.

2) So when you refer to the AT missiles being short ranged can you give me a ball park of shot what that is ? And a comparison to other weapons ? You also said they Are fairly powerful is that around Energy 8 ? Seems like you could only harm light vehicles with it

Phoenix Missiles have a 9" range vs. counter-measured targets and have a strength of nine. Where as PHR anti-material Sniper Rifles have an 18" range vs. counter-measures with a strength of seven (with shaped charge) and Shaltari have the gauss rifle with a range of 18" vs. counter-measures and a strength of eight.

3) With Dropzone commander how powerful are Fast-movers I'm gameplay terms ? I've seen how they are used but haven't fully seem their effectiveness

They can range from minor nuisance to major game changer. Typically you want a unit of interceptors by the time you reach about 1200 points to, at the very least, keep enemy fast movers from sniping your dropships or hitting other vital areas.

4) with the AT missiles , are they a one launcher per squad deal like the PHR anti-material rifle or do multiple members have them- further more are the missiles expendable items or when you buy them they stay throughout the battle (like missile launchers in 40k )

Phoenix Missiles are one per squad and come as a stock part of the cost for the unit. All UCM Legionaries come with them. They are also not limited weapons and you may fire them as many turns as you have the capability to do so should you wish.

5) From what I've seen and heard Sabre tanks are Just evil , energy 10 shots with 10 armor sounds good but I don't have a scale of the fame

Ten is as high as the armor value of a vehicle goes in Dropzone Commander. It will not save them from everything, but it makes them tough cookies to crack. They also have the articulated rule which allows them to shoot from 1" above their height as they can fire with their armature in order to utilize cover better.

6) Which is more viable do you think ?
a) legionaries with AT rockets zipping foward in a raven to throw rockets down in the enemy ? From what I've seen Ravens make terrible support Craft fire support wise

b) PHR Immortals loaded in a ...(can't remember the name light Dropship) because those can take alot more firepower on them ?

While the light infantry dropships with missiles seems really cool I would not suggest it. Think about it this way. If you are a military unit going after an objective do you want your ride to pick fights with main-line battle tanks or to hang back and wait for you? Once it is dead it is dead. This is very significant in an objective based game.

I would instead suggest UCM legionaries in ravens with Falcon and/or Starsprite Drone backup. That would give you a measure of what you are looking for and be cool doing so.

Hey I hope the OP is ok with me asking this in here.

Since were talking about the different factions. Anyone want to enlighten me on the Shaltari? Might pick this game up eventually and go UCM or Shaltari.

I love the look of the shaltari walkers but i hate all those vanes sticking out of their dropships. Can I do with just the Light gates and the ground ones? If I really had to I could suck it up and get some of the medium ones but I don't like the heavy gates. Is this viable?

The advice is awesome guys !

Sure to ahead and tell me about the Shatri

- with legionarries -
• I've never actually seen anyone fire their missiles , is this because the opportunity rarely exist ? At energy 9 they seem like they would be a threat to everyone except UMC MBT's and PHR Walkers . Now when you say "against counter measures " do all things have counter measures or only certain vehicles ? I think flares , jamming ,trophy system ect. When I think counter measures . Would they have a greater range when firing at say buildings ?

- Mechnization•

Adapting to that should be no problem as I normally play Mech-Guard . Now looking into them the Bear APC's for the UMC only posses light anti-infrantry cannons , now I know that APC's are not expected to provide fire support but can they be upgraded to IFV's ?


You guys are awesome


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Welsh_Furey wrote:
If i was you id go ucm if you take ucm infantry in ravens dont put missles on them you need to keep them alive to extract the infantry. With the legionaries missles each base gets one and it lasts the whole game ammo wise. Fast movers can be dangerous but need to be used tactically to really work.
Sabres are really tough with good fire power.

From what I've noticed alot of UMC aircraft are lightly armored , I know this is extremely important with drop ships but how much more so with CAS fast movers ?

Also the command cards for the UCM seem kinda... Lack luster from what I've seen , can someone enlighten me as to some of their decent ones ? With the PHR ?

The phr command cards can hack enemy drive systems weapons and counter measures where as most ucm command cards deal with bolstering infantry in combat and boosting/protecting your fast movers. But in general about 2/3 of the cards are the same in all decks.


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ww wrote:
Hey I hope the OP is ok with me asking this in here.

Since were talking about the different factions. Anyone want to enlighten me on the Shaltari? Might pick this game up eventually and go UCM or Shaltari.

I love the look of the shaltari walkers but i hate all those vanes sticking out of their dropships. Can I do with just the Light gates and the ground ones? If I really had to I could suck it up and get some of the medium ones but I don't like the heavy gates. Is this viable?

No you cant just get away with light gates but you can get away with having no heavy gates and shaltari play fast and tricksy but are fragile when caught out. When they work they are devastating.

So it sounds like the PHR are going to have much better instant power use where as the UCM requires more tactical use to be effective . Actually could be useful if you run four Ark Angels maybe ?

- with legionarries -
• I've never actually seen anyone fire their missiles , is this because the opportunity rarely exist ? At energy 9 they seem like they would be a threat to everyone except UMC MBT's and PHR Walkers . Now when you say "against counter measures " do all things have counter measures or only certain vehicles ? I think flares , jamming ,trophy system ect. When I think counter measures . Would they have a greater range when firing at say buildings ?

All vehicles in the game so far have active countermeasures. Only infantry do not have them. Against non-counter-measured targets they have a much greater range. I am not sure which off the top of my head, but it is between 36" and infinite range. One or the other.

- Mechnization•

Adapting to that should be no problem as I normally play Mech-Guard . Now looking into them the Bear APC's for the UMC only posses light anti-infrantry cannons , now I know that APC's are not expected to provide fire support but can they be upgraded to IFV's ?

Bear APCs can not be upgraded to be IFVs, but you do not really want your transports in the thick of it anyway. With armor eight and two damage points they are hardy against most medium strength weaponry. Just be careful about getting into the sights of a main battle tank. Think modern APC vs. an Abrams. Not likely to end well for the APC.

From what I've noticed alot of UMC aircraft are lightly armored , I know this is extremely important with drop ships but how much more so with CAS fast movers ?

Interceptors tend to have low armor generally speaking, but they are harder to hit as they can only be reaction fired against. This evens out fairly well. Also, just having them as a threat and holding them off to the last activation can often cause your opponent to avoid dropship hunting when he is worried about a pack of Archangels blowing his infantry's ride. Preventing those infantry from getting the objective off the board can be a game changer.

Also the command cards for the UCM seem kinda... Lack luster from what I've seen , can someone enlighten me as to some of their decent ones ? With the PHR ?

PHR Command cards are really nice, but remember that this is another thing to help make up for their low speed and the fact that they are often outnumbered.

Since were talking about the different factions. Anyone want to enlighten me on the Shaltari? Might pick this game up eventually and go UCM or Shaltari.

Shatlari are lightly armored with medium to high strength weaponry and have the best basic infantry in the game (although their elite infantry fall just behind that of the PHR Siren Corps). They are slower than the Scourge, have lower AV than the Scourge (although have passive countermeasures), and have a higher range. Teleporting is where their main advantage lies. They can teleport their forces across the board to dictate the terms of their engagement.

My army is Shaltari and I can honestly never play them enough. They are amazingly fun.

I love the look of the shaltari walkers but i hate all those vanes sticking out of their dropships. Can I do with just the Light gates and the ground ones? If I really had to I could suck it up and get some of the medium ones but I don't like the heavy gates. Is this viable?

The frilly drop-ships were not originally my cup of tea, but to be honest they have grown on me. Also you can do walk on heavy walkers and drive on vehicles without doing heavy or medium gates, but you will be shooting your mobility and capacity to dictate the terms of the engagement in the foot.

Great thread, really useful.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
So I've really gotten an interest lately in dropzone commander and the two factions I'm having difficulty decideing are the PHR and the UCM as I like both of there stories alot , and here's what I want to know

Here are some second opinions, though they are not disagreements with what Nightwolf has said, just an extra perspective.

• What are the differences game wise between the UCM and the PHR ?

UI would say UCM is more well-rounded than 'all rounders'. UCM have weak infantry by comparison and the larger squad size is not a real compensation. They also have superior air support.
PHR on the other hand have very focused units, individually superior but more expensive. More important than this the PHR have a lot of very powerful units that overshadow others in the same army list. So for UCM the balance between the medium Sabre and heavy Gladius is fine, the PHR medium Ares is inferior to the heavy Odin. Though recent rule changes have balanced the army out more.

• PHR infantry seems very powerful is this true ?

PHR Siren elite infantry get a 2+ save, most infantry get no save.

• from an asthetic standpoint it seems as if the PHR would be incredibly slow is this true ?

While slow the difference is only 1" between the two factions, and dropship speeds are fairly comperable. As all real movement for heavy ground units occurs by dropship the speed difference dont matter too much. Both factions have far faster light ground units.

1) So since I play Imperial Guard in war hammer 40k do you think that I would perhaps be better with the UCM play style ?

UCM are like the Colonial Marines from Aliens. Closer to IG than any other faction.

2) So when you refer to the AT missiles being short ranged can you give me a ball park of shot what that is ? And a comparison to other weapons ? You also said they Are fairly powerful is that around Energy 8 ? Seems like you could only harm light vehicles with it

The missiles from UCM infantry are E9 not E8. E9 is pretty good firepower but you get one shot per stand and very little range. More importantly you dont lean out the windows to fire no one can shoot you back, and as infantry are there to claim objectives the damage they do is not worth the risk. So all in all it doesnt really matter of the had water pistols or rocket launchers, only their search rolls and close combat ability matters.

3) With Dropzone commander how powerful are Fast-movers I'm gameplay terms ? I've seen how they are used but haven't fully seem their effectiveness.

Very random, don't rely on them to cover any basics. Consider their firepower supplementary. Fast Movers arent cheap either so its nor recommended you overinvest but do get some.



5) From what I've seen and heard Sabre tanks are Just evil , energy 10 shots with 10 armor sounds good but I don't have a scale of the fame

Sabres are deceptively average. Yes they have armour ten while Shaltari have A7 with shield and Scourge have A8, however both those races can move quickly for a -2 to hit penalty.
What this measn is: Scourge tanks kill UCM tanks by rolling a 2+ followed by a 4+. UCM tanks kill scourge tanks by rolling as 4+ followed by a 2+. The extra point of ease in killing Shaltari tanks is offset by the 5+ save they get.


6) Which is more viable do you think ?
a) legionaries with AT rockets zipping foward in a raven to throw rockets down in the enemy ? From what I've seen Ravens make terrible support Craft fire support wise
b) PHR Immortals loaded in a ...(can't remember the name light Dropship) because those can take alot more firepower on them ?

Dont use either for offensive use, use both for claiming objecrtives and fight with your vehicles.
Nightwolf recommends you dont use Ravens to attack and dont even waste points upgrading rocket pods, I agree and for the same reason thast your Ravens are too valueble to risk in direct combat. But that only applies to the troop carrying Raven A, if you take Wolverine buggies you get Raven B light dropships which are similar but aren't needed to extract objectives. They are even cheaper and make for very cost effective light gunships when equipped with the rocket pods.

The PHR light dropship is called the Triton, and its split into two designs, the A1 which carries infantry and the A2 which carries Janus light scout walkers. Only consider adding missiles to the A2.

So your stating that infantry is practically useless in DZC for everything except claiming objectives while having a minimal ability to defend themselves of they have to.

Now I haven't seen anything stating you can't fire AT rockets at infantry .... Is this true ?

• Does the numbers of UMC troops balance somewhat there decreased body armor ?

• Are the Automartic rifles of the UMC Legionsrries adaquite when fighting against most enemies or are they like the lasgun in how they are only decent against human sized targets ?

So your stating that infantry is practically useless in DZC for everything except claiming objectives while having a minimal ability to defend themselves of they have to.

They can do some damage, but only at short ranges and not very cost effectively at that. Tanks shoot better than infantry do, a UCM tank costs 37pts for an E10 shot with 24", UCM infantry costs 26pts for an E9 shot at 9".
Plan not to use the infantry to fight, just to search and extract objectives, they will more likely live to fulfill their objectives; and remember those objectives win you the game and outweigh casualties inflicted.

This is not to mean, never shoot.



Now I haven't seen anything stating you can't fire AT rockets at infantry .... Is this true ?

In CQB (the equivalent to the melee phase) you use the CGB profile, nothing else.
If firign building to bulding yes you can shoot your rockets at infantry, they can also choose a different target to the rest of the squad.

• Does the numbers of UMC troops balance somewhat there decreased body armor ?

Up to a point, but the need to take more to balance makes infantry squads more expensive. Number do count though, you can win combats with Legionnaires be charging a whole platoon of 30 guys into a combat. But to wi combats you have to take more and pay more. As I said, infantry are the UCM's weak point, but they dont lag too far behind the other factions that you cant do something about it.

• Are the Automartic rifles of the UMC Legionsrries adaquite when fighting against most enemies or are they like the lasgun in how they are only decent against human sized targets ?

In DZC all close combat is viscious, they carry adequate assault rifles and yes weaker than some other factions guns to the point where you can draw lasgun analogies, but the basic rifles are only used for shooting out of windows, close combat uses the CQB stat and Legionnaires have 'low WS' bit like guardsmen.

Orlanth knows what is what. You can trust his advice to be sound.

So your stating that infantry is practically useless in DZC for everything except claiming objectives while having a minimal ability to defend themselves of they have to.

Yes and no. No two situations on the tabletop are ever the same. Truth be told you should avoid firing the rockets if you can, but sometimes a target of opportunity will present itself or enemy forces will be overrunning their position preventing them from getting away or outright threatening to destroy their building (in which case you could try and take a few things out before they go down). Think of them more as a weapon of last resort than one of active combat.

Now I haven't seen anything stating you can't fire AT rockets at infantry .... Is this true ?

You may fire them at enemy infantry (if they show themselves) or take a pot shots at buildings that enemy infantry are garrisoned in to attempt damage.

Does the numbers of UMC troops balance somewhat there decreased body armor ?

UCM troops have weaker armor and a weaker close quarters battle stat than PHR Immortals do. In close quarters combat three stands of Legionaries are roughly equivalent to two stands of Immortals, but outside of CQC it should be noted that Immortals will put the hurt on the UCM infantry should a direct (say building to building) firefight ever occur.

Are the Automartic rifles of the UMC Legionsrries adaquite when fighting against most enemies or are they like the lasgun in how they are only decent against human sized targets ?

Think lasguns. To my knowledge UCM infantry have the weakest small-arms weapons in the game.

So points I've picked up

•Only fire AT rockets in last stand situations or targets of opportunity

• Normal UCM infantry require at least a 3:1 advantage in order to combat other factions troops

Now some questions I have -

If I have a platoon of legionarries in a building (30 guys 6 stands ) can I have 3 bases search and if needed have 3 bases lob rockets out of windows if enemy armor is in the street below ?

I've seen some games where urban warfare is mostly the prime state of things ? This seems to throw some pretty substantial advantages to The Scourge who have very powerful close range weapons . Do large open tank engagements ever take place ? And with Urban warfare currently it's the bane of existence for armor , how does it fair in DZC

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
So points I've picked up

•Only fire AT rockets in last stand situations or targets of opportunity

Correct

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

• Normal UCM infantry require at least a 3:1 advantage in order to combat other factions troops

As a rule of thumb two squads against one squad to have a good chance of winning.

this might mean 2:1 against Scourge, or 3:1 against PHR and Shaltari, and that only applies to stands, some eleite infantry are three to a base. In any case it does NOT apply to Firstborns or Sirens which will tear you to bits. Avoid combat with them.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

If I have a platoon of legionarries in a building (30 guys 6 stands ) can I have 3 bases search and if needed have 3 bases lob rockets out of windows if enemy armor is in the street below ?

You get to search will all your squads and still fire with all your rockets.

What yould happen is that 30 men is two squads (if deployed from Bears), so you get two search rolls. Dave (the games inventor) says that during a seartch one or two men are detached to look about for a bit. This is not deducted from the combat strength in any way, everyone gets to shoot if you elect to shoot. Six E9 rockets is actually pretty good firepower, but most opponents wont hang around in the short range envelope with anything worth killing.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

I've seen some games where urban warfare is mostly the prime state of things ? This seems to throw some pretty substantial advantages to The Scourge who have very powerful close range weapons . Do large open tank engagements ever take place ? And with Urban warfare currently it's the bane of existence for armor , how does it fair in DZC

The game as intended to be a general miniatures game, it has however developed into a de facto urban warfare game. Nearly all scenarios depcit buildings scatrtered across the map for objectives all the terrain sold is urban and many units dont function well in a non-urban environment.
The game itself is fairly evenly balanced, Scourge can be defeated in urban battle, it was playtested that way.

Alright sounds like the UCM could be fairly competent and extremely lethal if an opponent is unwise enough to move into that 9'kill bubble -

And firstborn are the Warpgate people's normal infantry ?

So for feasability does this seem reasonable

• Say there is an enemy garrisoned in a building
I have a platoon (6bases ) of Legionarries fire rockets at a building to damage the troops inside and have Patorians fast rope from Ravens ?

• So is it reasonable to get a concealment bonus by using the Articulation rule on Sabres with them lined up like so

[]
[]
[]
So they get concealment bonus's but can still fire with maybe the lead tank poking His head out from the corner of a building ... Could this work ?


• With Infantry how do Scourge infantry compare as opposed to UCM what about PHR. ?

Since I've been asking lots about UCM I'm looking into the PHR a little , About how strong are the PHR walkers ? What about Immortals ? The PHR also have a better looking Dropship series IMHO , and do the Sirens have any special abilities ?

I think I should clarify about the infantry firing out of buildings a bit.

As stated most infantry that fire out of buildings can do fairly good damage, but at very short range. This isnt the problem.
The problem is that everything firing back can do so with a lot longer range or more firepower or both.
UCM and PHR are dripping with machine guns, nearly every UCM vehicle or dropship has a secondary machine gun.. Some have more than one, and the Albatross has a lot of firepower with four*, some others can accumulate a lot of firepower over a squad. All this firepower is lethal to exposed infantry and shoots 36".
PHR have machine guns on all their ground units except the Taranis and type 3 walkers. Their light dropships can be outfitted with machine guns for negligible points costs ajnd most people do because it look cool. They also fire 36" and murder exposed infantry.
Scourge don't have any machine guns but do have some alt fire modes with plasma weapons that are specific damage dealers against infantry. The only caveat is range is still short and the infantry can effectively shoot back if they havent learned their lesson the first time.
Shaltari have very few secondary weapons, but do have some units with microwave guns and they make up by being very effective indeed.

So all in all unless the situation is favourable, and being fair it sometimes is, infantry are best staying out of sight.

Now there are two exceptions, units that can hit you even if you hide. The first is the PHR Menchit, don't worry about that. No one wants any, I have never seen them fielded and they are the only ground unit in the original set that didnt make into the magadeals. Most PHR consdier Menchit a waste of points.
The other is the Tormentor. If you see that coming to your building DO lean out and fire everything you have, then start hurling furniture; it's nasty. Thankfully Tormentors are fairly rare weak against tanks and you can see them coming.

* Yet is normally considered effectively unarmed because no one sticks their heads out of windows when an Albatross is near so they never get to shoot.

Hmm ... So Generally the Missiles don't come into play nearly ever (UCM) ... Hmm not sure exactly if I would prefer The PHR though , some aspects are appealing but I know little about them

Alright sounds like the UCM could be fairly competent and extremely lethal if an opponent is unwise enough to move into that 9'kill bubble -

I wouldhnt say extremely lethal, you can match six E9 shots elsewhere easily and remember the price. It costs 219pts for those six infantry squads, when you pay for their Bears and Condor. Two Sabre squads of three tanks is 284pts with transports and are far more lethal. Honestly for firepower, buy tanks..

And firstborn are the Warpgate people's normal infantry ?

No they are the eilite, Braves are the Shaltari basic troops. Braves can match up to Praetorians (UCM elites) though, so be warned.

So for feasability does this seem reasonable
• Say there is an enemy garrisoned in a building
I have a platoon (6bases ) of Legionarries fire rockets at a building to damage the troops inside and have Patorians fast rope from Ravens ?

Yes you can win a CQB this way, but points, points, points. If the objective there is important enough it can win you the game and it can be a good idea, but you will also need to control the environment. Bring Rapiers up to close off enemy dropships and tanks to kill ground APCs and Scourge heavies. So it still comes down to the vehicles for UCM. Why? Because while you can have thirty Legionnaires in a building and back them up with ten Praetorians to make sure you win, what happens if the opponent gets in Aged Ones, or Sirens, Firstborn or Razorworms to reinforce their own troops. The answer is that it gets very dicey even if you have superior numbers and you own elites. Playing Praetorians is like putting down the King of Clubs, its a might high card but from the low suit, and other factions can trump your trump.

Dont get me wrong Praetorians are good troops and their special rule makes it easier for them to enter buildings, they are there to deploy into close combats and rescue Legionnaires, but youn MUST first consider your vehicle forces to make good of the victory, if you cant lock the enemy elites out don't deploy your Praetorians.

• So is it reasonable to get a concealment bonus by using the Articulation rule on Sabres with them lined up like so

[]
[]
[]

Yes

So they get concealment bonus's but can still fire with maybe the lead tank poking His head out from the corner of a building ... Could this work ?

Yes

• With Infantry how do Scourge infantry compare as opposed to UCM what about PHR. ?

Scourge infantry are a bit like UCM, fairly weak but they have two advantages. First they all have plasma guns and can combine fire to form a single high power anti tank shot so all in all they are better when shooting out of windows. Seciond you can upgrade them retarding their firerpower but greatly increasing their close combat ability. Please note here that nerfing firepower and boosting CQB is worth a points hefty upgrade and should highlight the importance of CQB over firepower for infantry.
the resultant infantrty are called Agerd Ones and they are pretty tough. To make matters worse the Scourge deploy Razorworms, think alien drone-giant centipede crossbreeds. No firepower at all but lethal close combat ability. Unlike other factions 'elite' the Razorworms are deployed from heavy tanks not APC's.
Scourge also have Destroyers, which are best described as power armoured gorillas. While infantry its best to think of therm as slow light vehicles.

Since I've been asking lots about UCM I'm looking into the PHR a little , About how strong are the PHR walkers ?

Medium walkers have two hit points, everyone elses has one. However those wounds do go down, th heavy walkers keep two wounds, and other forces also have two, so instead they get tougher and have a save. Saves are rare in this game, outside close combat only the Shaltari and PHR heavy walkers get saves. But Shaltari have paper thin armour, Shaltari heavy walkers are armour 10. It takes a lot of firepower to down Odins, hence their popularity. Phobos are also greatly feared because they have the longest range AA in the game so you cant really hide from them. I think Rapiers are better overall though.
PHR also have a new Hades walker which is a giant robot scorpion and its lethal, most expensive unit in the game, and in my opinion still underpriced.

What about Immortals ?

Nightwolf covered the Immortals above. They are good efficient troops.

The PHR also have a better looking Dropship series IMHO , and do the Sirens have any special abilities ?

PHR have a lot of fans and the aesthetics appeal to many gamers.

As for Sirens they have a 2+ save, they are a tier match for Firstborns and superior to any other infantry unit in close combat. They are closest to Grammaton Clerics from Equilibrium. Oh and they are all female cyborgs.

That movie was awesome , so now I'm leaning toward PHR who have what seem like a good mix of powerful troops , armor and aircraft . Your description of the Sirens is great IMHO


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Oh and can you buy rockets on the PHR light Dropship ? It seems like it operates like a hind

You can, but you still run into the same issues that you otherwise have with UCM Ravens. Light dropships are extremely squishy and, barring a lucky break in command card draw, when you lose a dropship your infantry are stuck dead in the water (and unlikely to survive hoofing it across the board). The missiles are viable when put on a dropship that does not need to be committed to egress. So much like Orlanth mentioned with the ravens and wolverines, you would be okay putting the missiles instead on a Triton carrying janus scout walkers.

Trust me when I say that a downed infantry light dropship can lose you the game. They are there to protect their men and see them safely home again. Fighting with them is not the way to accomplish that task. For fighting you can allocate scout units or dedicated gunboats (like Falcons) to do the dirty work if you do not want to commit main-line tanks to that particular combat zone.

Also a slight aside. Have you looked into UCM praetorian snipers and longbow artillery? Some nifty stuff.

Edit: To provide an example to you. When I play DZC I actively hunt enemy light dropships transporting infantry because they are that important. A stuck unit of infantry is going to have the building shot out from underneath of them or find themselves besieged by a unit of angry hedgehogs in battle-suits.

I didn't even know about the Snipers and Artillary , I know they exis but I know nothing about them , care to enlighten me ?

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
You can, but you still run into the same issues that you otherwise have with UCM Ravens. Light dropships are extremely squishy and, barring a lucky break in command card draw, when you lose a dropship your infantry are stuck dead in the water (and unlikely to survive hoofing it across the board). The missiles are viable when put on a dropship that does not need to be committed to egress. So much like Orlanth mentioned with the ravens and wolverines, you would be okay putting the missiles instead on a Triton carrying janus scout walkers.

Trust me when I say that a downed infantry light dropship can lose you the game. They are there to protect their men and see them safely home again. Fighting with them is not the way to accomplish that task. For fighting you can allocate scout units or dedicated gunboats (like Falcons) to do the dirty work if you do not want to commit main-line tanks to that particular combat zone.

Also a slight aside. Have you looked into UCM praetorian snipers and longbow artillery? Some nifty stuff.

Edit: To provide an example to you. When I play DZC I actively hunt enemy light dropships transporting infantry because they are that important. A stuck unit of infantry is going to have the building shot out from underneath of them or find themselves besieged by a unit of angry hedgehogs in battle-suits.

Agreed with all that is here, but with two clarifications.

1. The missile pods on a Raven B are cheap and E8, the missile pods for a Triton A2 are expensive and E7, not as expensive as they were but at 15pts they are not really worth it. Frankly i wouldnt bother unless you have points to waste.
Note again this only applies to the Rqaven B and Triton A2, the scout carriers not the infantry carriers. Nightwolk is 100% right that infantery carrier shouldnt expose themselves to combat.

2. If your Raven A's or Triton A1's are shot down it can cost you the game, but frankly you should be taking at least part of your infantry in APC's carried under medium dropships. They are far more stable and because of multiple disembarks can actually reach forther onto the board on turn one.


I think you are thinking too much like a 40K player Kasrkin, wanting to get some kills out of your transports. GW is a mission orientated game, with a low model count for combat models and a relatively high model count for support or transport models. You will be focusing on maneuver and target selection not raw damage. Get used to the idea that in DZC a unit doesn't need to shoot or 'make back its points' to help you win.

This link will give you all the rules for the new DZC experimental units. New UCM units consist of the longbow, ferrum drone base, and praetorian snipers. PHR experimental units consist of the hades, erebos strike walkers, and apollo strike walkers.

http://www.hawkwargames.com/blogs/experimental-rules

OP. You k ow hawk have a forum of their own? All these questions could have been answered there if you looked. Plus the rulebook is £15. A cheap investment if you really are all that interested to find stuff out

Motograter wrote:
OP. You k ow hawk have a forum of their own? All these questions could have been answered there if you looked. Plus the rulebook is £15. A cheap investment if you really are all that interested to find stuff out

I was looking into a more localized source first and I didn't know about hawks forum , however 15£ isn't much that is close to 40$ in US money (1£=1.80$ if I recall last time I looked ) so that is money is rather not spend of I don't have to -

It is closer to twenty five dollars currently. So about thirty with tax.

23 dollars. Plus using warstore etc nets you more discount