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Hey Dakka,

After much tweaking and testing, I've found the ultimate composition for a beastly and super cheesy draigowing. The finesse of this build lies more in unit placement than comp itself, but i'll get to that after; here are the details:

*this is just the pally-deathstar; it is all one giant squad with all HQ's attached. Add in other units per your choosing.

HQ - Draigo
HQ - Libby

10-15 pallies, whichever gear you prefer, but mix it up for versatility.
Brotherhood banner, psybolt, apothecary.

Seems pretty cookie cutter right? You can adjust the number of pallies but ultimately it doesn't matter too much on the pallies but the IC's, and how you place/leverage them.

For this tactic, place draigo and the Libby on the perimeter of the deathstar; whether they are b2b with you other pallies or just barely on coherency, doesn't really matter as long as they are in the front facing your opponent and most likely to be closest model and this get wounds allocated to them.

Now one of the biggest changes in 6th that affected/caused issues for draigo wing was wound allocation; before, the player could choose where to allocate wounds amongst his own squad. Pallies being 2-wound units allowed you to be cheap and rather than putting two wounds on one pally and killing him, you would be one wound on one pally, and one on another to keep them both alive and fighting. Now since the nearest model takes the wound, the pallies would be forced to be picked off one by one with all the front pallies dying and all the back pallies remaining unscathed.

Here's where the IC's come in; with them taking all the wounds they can negate this with Look Out Sir. IC's pass their LOS rolls on 2+, making it very probable. So from here, wounds get allocated to the IC, take LOS rolls, and allocate the wounds to any model within 6" of the IC. This way, you can mimic 5th edition by allocated one wound per pally to maximize the survivability of the squad. Stack that with the apothecary's FNP and you got one tanky squad.

Side note: I would stay away from multiple pally squads. Withe the squad upgrades you get more bang for your buck the more palsied are in the squad. I saw once a draigowing with 2 5-man pally squads, each with psyammo apothecary and banner. What a waste of points! Combine them into one big squad and they all get the same benefits for cheaper.

- W

"Rainbows are magic; magic is heresy!"

LoS allocates to the closest model.... there would be worse shenanigans than draigostar if it allocated to any model within 6 inches.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tiber55 wrote:
LoS allocates to the closest model.... there would be worse shenanigans than draigostar if it allocated to any model within 6 inches.

Page 16 in the 6th edition rulebook:

"On a roll of 4+,the look Out, Sir attempt is successful. You must pick a model from the same unit within 6" and resolve the W'ound against them instead. This can even be a model that is out of range or line of sight of the Shooting attack."

This clearly states that it is not the closest, but any unit within 6". unless there is an errata or FAQ on this, I think you are mistaken.

- W


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tiber55 wrote:
LoS allocates to the closest model.... there would be worse shenanigans than draigostar if it allocated to any model within 6 inches.

And yes I agree; with the current LOS system there are tons of cheesy squad builds than can fully utilize/exploit this rule. Basically any big unit composed of 2-wound models and a(n) IC can really be cheap with this.

- W

Here you go. They fixed this a while ago IIRC.

Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

Straight from the BRB FAQ, page 1.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
Here you go. They fixed this a while ago IIRC.

Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

Straight from the BRB FAQ, page 1.

Lucarikx

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Just confirmed it, closest model. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2590005a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1a.pdf

Guess my super cheese draigowing is obsolete.

You can still try your best to position the pallies so the ones with 1 wound left are more in the middle and not targeted and having the full health pallies on the perimeter.

Yes you can still use LoS to your advantage over multiple turns, one unit that does this better is a necron destroyer lord and tomb spiders, since everything is t6 (no ID from str) and 3 wounds you can shift around which is the closest every turn so that if they fail to kill an entire tomb spider you can just put a fresh one next to the lord.

The benefits to multiple squads is you get multiple units that have psychic powers.

I ran five 2 man pally squads, and another with 9 pallys so I could use the Holocaust psychic power 6 times each turn as well as the 9 man squad having most of the firepower and two psycannons.

I also had three venerable dreadnoughts with twin auto cannons each with psybullets. (basic psyfleman build)

That, with draigo and some extras is a pretty good army which can be switched around into multiple configurations

wow 5 2-man squads, that sounds cool; i mess around with solodins time to time as they are great skirmishers that the opponent may not want to waste shots on as it would be overkill and a waste of shots for a squad.

Are psyflemen still valid? dreadnaughts have been, with my recent experience, ripe targets for first blood and ultimately get glanced to death by relatively weak weapons.

I guess the main issue I'm having is finding a standard for pallystar in 6th, as it was a very straightforward build in 5th.

- W

Pssflemen are still valid IMO.
They are your long range support and are good for light flyers (eldars/DE ...) for tank popping (except damn WS...) and ID a lot of stuff.

However i would never make them venerable given the cost...

how many do you typically field in a 1500 pt game? 2000 pts?

sleekid wrote:
Pssflemen are still valid IMO.
They are your long range support and are good for light flyers (eldars/DE ...) for tank popping (except damn WS...) and ID a lot of stuff.

However i would never make them venerable given the cost...

I often make all 3 dreads venerable because it raises their BS by 1, (to 5) and it makes them much more survivable.

That added accuracy and ability to both take damage (and GK ability to heal that damage) makes it very unkillable if it sits in the backlines picking off wounds from monstrous creatures or hordes of models. The cost is totally worth it if you can keep it in the backlines, and it has something like an 88% rate of hitting its target for every shot which is awesome(With psyammo doing extra damage as well).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wpartri1 wrote:
wow 5 2-man squads, that sounds cool; i mess around with solodins time to time as they are great skirmishers that the opponent may not want to waste shots on as it would be overkill and a waste of shots for a squad.

Are psyflemen still valid? dreadnaughts have been, with my recent experience, ripe targets for first blood and ultimately get glanced to death by relatively weak weapons.

I guess the main issue I'm having is finding a standard for pallystar in 6th, as it was a very straightforward build in 5th.

- W

Your dreadnoughts should NEVER NEVER be in close combat as their height combined with the enemy viewing them as "dangerous", (moreso than your paladins) it will die first turn unless you keep it in cover shooting from range. I find that if you're gonna go close combat with a walker, use a Dreadknight as it does the job better. Psyfleman is very good for its cost.

Yeah the small squads are very fun and it is good that I can both have them moving as if they were a whole squad or in pairs to surround an enemy unit. Draigo is usually with the bigger squad as using him you can allocate wounds around to keep the group alive longer.