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2013/10/22 17:08:40
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
DOHA (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief has said the kingdom will make a "major shift" in relations with the United States in protest at its perceived inaction over the Syria war and its overtures to Iran, a source close to Saudi policy said on Tuesday.
Prince Bandar bin Sultan told European diplomats that Washington had failed to act effectively on the Syria crisis and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was growing closer to Tehran, and had failed to back Saudi support for Bahrain when it crushed an anti-government revolt in 2011, the source said.
It was not immediately clear if Prince Bandar's reported statements had the full backing of King Abdullah.
"The shift away from the U.S. is a major one," the source close to Saudi policy said. "Saudi doesn't want to find itself any longer in a situation where it is dependent."
The United States and Saudi Arabia have been allies since the kingdom was declared in 1932, giving Riyadh a powerful military protector and Washington secure oil supplies.
The prince's initiative follows a surprise Saudi decision on Friday to reject a coveted two-year term on the U.N. Security Council in protest at "double standards" at the United Nations.
Prince Bandar, who was Saudi ambassador to Washington for 22 years, is seen as a foreign policy hawk, especially on Iran. The Sunni Muslim kingdom's rivalry with Shi'ite Iran, an ally of Syria, has amplified sectarian tensions across the Middle East.
A son of the late defense minister and crown prince, Prince Sultan, and a protégé of the late King Fahd, he fell from favor with King Abdullah after clashing on foreign policy in 2005.
But he was called in from the cold last year with a mandate to bring down President Bashar al-Assad, diplomats in the Gulf say. Over the past year he has led Saudi efforts to bring arms and other aid to Syrian rebels while his cousin, Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, worked the diplomatic corridors.
"ALL OPTIONS ON TABLE"
"Prince Bandar told diplomats that he plans to limit interaction with the U.S.," the source close to Saudi policy said. "This happens after the U.S. failed to take any effective action on Syria and Palestine.
"Relations with the U.S. have been deteriorating for a while, as Saudi feels that the U.S. is growing closer with Iran and the U.S. also failed to support Saudi during the Bahrain uprising."
The source declined to provide more details of Bandar's talks with the diplomats, which took place in the past few days.
But he suggested that the planned change in ties between the energy superpower and its traditional U.S. ally would have wide-ranging consequences, including on arms purchases and oil sales.
Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, ploughs much of its earnings back into U.S. assets. Most of the Saudi central bank's net foreign assets of $690 billion are thought to be denominated in dollars, much of them in U.S. Treasury bonds.
"All options are on the table now, and for sure there will be some impact," the Saudi source said.
He said there would be no further coordination with the United States over the war in Syria, where the Saudis have armed and financed rebel groups fighting Assad.
The kingdom has informed the United States of its actions in Syria, and diplomats say it has respected U.S. requests not to supply the groups with advanced weaponry that the West fears could fall into the hands of al Qaeda-aligned groups.
Saudi anger boiled over after Washington refrained from military strikes in response to a poison gas attack in Damascus in August when Assad agreed to give up his chemical arsenal.
Saudi Arabia is also concerned about signs of a tentative reconciliation between Washington and Tehran, something Riyadh fears may lead to a "grand bargain" on the Iranian nuclear program that would leave it at a disadvantage.
UNITED NATIONS PARALYSED
The U.N. Security Council has been paralyzed over the 31-month-old Syria conflict, with permanent members Russia and China repeatedly blocking measures to condemn Assad.
Saudi Arabia backs Assad's mostly Sunni rebel foes. The Syrian leader, whose Alawite sect is derived from Shi'ite Islam, has support from Iran and the armed Lebanese Shi'ite movement Hezbollah. The Syrian leader denounces the insurgents as al Qaeda-linked groups backed by Sunni-ruled states.
In Bahrain, home of the U.S. Fifth Fleet, a simmering pro-democracy revolt by its Shi'ite majority has prompted calls by some in Washington for U.S. ships to base elsewhere.
Western policymakers say Bahrain's hosting of a U.S. naval base makes it a key ally in keeping open the Strait of Hormuz, conduit for 40 percent of the world's sea-borne oil exports.
Many U.S. economic interests in Saudi Arabia involve government contracts in defense, other security sectors, health care, education, information technology and construction.
But American businessmen in Riyadh, who did not want to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said they did not believe the political bumps in the U.S.-Saudi relationship would affect their business significantly.
"The big contracts are mostly government, but I don't see much political content in who gets the contracts," one said.
(Additional reporting by Angus McDowall; Writing by William Maclean; Editing by Alistair Lyon)
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2013/10/22 17:11:59
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
djones520 wrote: Chest thumping. Our dependancy on their oil is slowly getting less and less. It's like the couple who knows their growing apart, so start fighting.
Only a small percentage of your oil comes from the Middle East (like 10%).
2013/10/22 18:57:43
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, seriously.
I don't know why the ME is seen as having so much control when we only get a small portion of our oil from them. We get more from Canada for Pete's sake!
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Ten percent is a small percentage, but is a large amount of actual oild, and has serious real world implications if it were to just disappear from a market.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/10/22 19:03:52
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
I don't know why the ME is seen as having so much control when we only get a small portion of our oil from them. We get more from Canada for Pete's sake!
Until Canada starts rationing it... like they do with their healthcare.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/10/22 19:04:53
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/22 19:05:06
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/10/22 19:35:00
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
Ahtman wrote: Ten percent is a small percentage, but is a large amount of actual oild, and has serious real world implications if it were to just disappear from a market.
Yeah, true but would America be able to replace them by either doing deals with other countries or getting more from it's other current deals.
2013/10/22 20:02:14
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
I don't know why the ME is seen as having so much control when we only get a small portion of our oil from them. We get more from Canada for Pete's sake!
Until Canada starts rationing it... like they do with their healthcare.
We're aren't far behind tbh
2013/10/22 23:07:18
Subject: Re:Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
IIRC, if we expanded domestic drilling we could be totally independent of the ME for oil. And even be a net exporter. We could easily be energy independent.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
We will be. Its already happening. LNG terminals are being converted to export nat gas now. Black gold is just a step behind.
What happens when the ME runs out? Will anyone care about the ME after that?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/10/23 01:46:29
Subject: Re:Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
They'd probably shrivel up like roadkill on a Texas highway.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: IIRC, if we expanded domestic drilling we could be totally independent of the ME for oil. And even be a net exporter. We could easily be energy independent.
Makes more sense then to use up other sources before we exhaust our own here in the US
2013/10/23 08:01:29
Subject: Re:Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
Grey Templar wrote: IIRC, if we expanded domestic drilling we could be totally independent of the ME for oil. And even be a net exporter. We could easily be energy independent.
Makes more sense then to use up other sources before we exhaust our own here in the US
This. Anyone even briefly familiar with the peak oil concept (the factual side of it, not the conspiracy nutter side of it) knows that it makes a lot of sense to deliberately leave domestic reserves untapped.
It's not a case of the oil "running out", it's just that it gets exponentially more expensive (in energy terms) to extract as supplies run down, to the point where it can end up taking you 0.8 barrels of oil to supply the energy to extract 1 barrel of oil from a difficult source.
Whereas with an untapped fresh reserve you just drill down and it comes gushing out under its own pressure. Cheap oil, and much of the middle east has had these high-pressure gushers to tap.
So, while we easily have 200+ years of oil left, the ease of extraction is also a factor, and a much more relevant one from a political perspective... for a long while the cheapest oil has come from the middle east but that won't last much longer.
The actual reasons are more about money than oil supply when it comes down to it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/23 08:07:40
2013/10/23 21:47:25
Subject: Saudi Arabia upset with the United States!
If it ends up that future conflicts take more of a focus on resources then using up what other countries have before using your own supply is eminently sensible.
It's much easier to defend your own territory and resources when the enemy has to exhaust their precious reserves to try and contest control of yours.