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hey guys!

Before i start i dont have the army book in front of me so i may type a few things with minor errors but i wanted to ask a question as it came up during a game a weeks days ago. I wasnt too sure, and completely forgot to ask the forum and its only because im playing him on friday did I think to ask.

I played WoC against my friends H.E's and it was a combat phase where my knights were up against his (i think) dragon princes. (now sadly this was some time ago and i have forgotten the exact details of the situation so please forgive me)
I had upgraded my Knights with Ensorcelled weapons. During combat he instructed me that because they were magic weapons he was allowed a 2+ ward save against all magic attacks. So I say "ok then, ill attack you with my hand weapons"

Was I correct in assuming that i would be allowed to pick what weapons I engaged in combat with. Or am I even entitled to select Hand weapons when i have paid to upgrade the weapons to E.Weapons.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

No you're not in this case, you have to fight with "the best weapon available", which is not the regular HW, even against BotWD
same deal that you can't select HW+shield if you have a halberd

Aye, BRB, start of the weapons section.

As im aware only black orcs can change weapons due a special rule they got.

Maybe the Dwarfs slayers as well, gotta check the writing of the rule
edit: specifically written that they choose at the start of combat and are then stuck with it

no you oculdn't use your normal weapons.

however I am curious how he was getting his 2+ (excluding banner of the world dragon, they can't get a 2+ except by flamming attacks IIRC)

Probably had the banner...

I thought that the Banner was a given in this situation.

Also, just to throw it out there, the only reason that Slayers and Black Orcs can choose their weapons from combat to combat is because they have multiple special weapons.
Slayers can choose between extra hand Weapons and great weapons, but could not choose to use a regular hand weapon.
The Armed To Da' Teef rule, if I remember correctly, does specifically state that they can choose to use their hand weapon and shield.
Slayer/Black Orc characters still have to use a magic weapon if they have one, though.
...are Ensorcelled Weapons considered special weapons, or magic items? If they're special, then you could choose which to use, if they had something else, like a lance. Just musings.

If they are magif weapons, they are also special weapons; anything other than hand weapon is a special weapon.
They would need a special rule to be able to use them (like Armed to da teef)

All magic weapons are special, but not all special weapons are magic.
If I've got a spear, a great weapon, and a halberd, the BRB says I can choose which one to use.
If I have a flail, two hand weapons, and a magic weapon, I have to use the magic weapon.

Yes... but if you have a apecial weapon and a hand weapon, the brb says you have to use the special weapon.

Right, right. Of course. As I said, I'm just musing, here.
Multiple special weapons means I choose. But a magic weapon means I have to use it. So, first: can Chaos Knights take both lances and Ensorcelled Weapons at the same time?
Second: are Ensorcelled Weapons (A) special weapons with the rule "attacks made with this weapon count as magical", or (B) are they magic weapons?

If the answers are "yes" and "A", then I guess you could at least get those Princes on the charge...

Pretty sure they had the option to swap their ensorcelled weapons for lances in the previous book, so I guess it's still one or the other

Ensorcelled Weapons, at least in the previous book, were Special Weapons that have magical attacks. They are not a Magic Weapon, which is a specific category of magic items.

So if a Chaos Warrior had a Lance and an Ensorcelled weapon for some reason he can choose which to use, assuming he charged. But I think the option is a swap so you can't have both.


there is a difference between something having magical attacks and having a magic weapon. Yhetees have magic attacks, but they don't have magic weapons.

Magical Attacks is simply a weapon property, like +2 strength or ASL. It is an automatic property of Magic Weapons, which can cause some confusion.

Chaos Knights currently come with hand weapons as standard. You can then upgrade to EITHER Ensorcelled Weapons or lances.

Intriguing; so if it says "may take lances for x points" "may take ensorcelled waapons for y points", do you think you could take both, since it is not worded as a swap?

No, it says you may take one of the following options:
Ensorcelled weapons at X points
Lances at Y points

It's either/or.

Ah, grand. Didn't have my book handy.

@Grey Templar: I figured as much. So my conundrum is solved at both ends. Excellent.

I guess the lesson is: engage the biggest unit in the High Elf book with your Warriors, not your Knights.

thanks for the help guys, sorry i have not replied i was away foir work. i believe the banner is: Banner of world dragon

Yeah, we figured. The dumbest thing in all of Warhammer since...I don't know what.

sorry, wasnt able to respond fast enough. so from what people are saying i am unable to switch between E.Weapons to my HW to avoid the 2+ ward save?

Yes, as you are required to use your special weapon over a HW

Thanks for everyone's help with my question!

a linked topic, if you'd be as kind as to help me:

My Exhalted hero was placed on a Daemonic beast. and was in combat with my friends high elf prince mounted on a Griffon.

I killed his Prince leaving his Griffon! and His Griffon placed 2 wounds onto my Exhalted hero!
Now E.Hs only have 2 wounds.

So i assumed he was dead! and that being thought, we were unsure as to whether my Daemonic mount took a Monster Reaction.

I was voting yes, as I think in the army book I believe its classed as Monstrous Cavalry. (sadly book isn't in front of me, currently in work)
He said no. But the Daemonic mount has 3 wounds!

so we came to the conclusion that because the DM had 3 wounds and wasn't separated from the EH (via not having a M.Reaction) my E.H remained alive because the D.Mount.s wounds being higher then the E:Heros.

could anyone shed some light into what we did right or what we did wrong?

Thank you!

The rules for Monstrous Cav state you use the highest wounds profile as the wounds for the whole model. You cannot attack each part separately.

As Nosferatu said (but in a concise way)
Daemonic Mount is a Monstrous Beast, thus your Hero becomes Monstrous Cavalry
In this case, you use the best Wounds value available (from BRB) and best Toughness available (from BRB FAQ) but they are attacked as a single entity and either they are removed as one or they both stay here
In essence, the mount gives your Hero an extra wound (and Pegasus give Elves an extra Toughness as well on a secondary note) because it has a 3 wounds profile

ah right thanks very much or answering my question guys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warpsolution wrote:
I guess the lesson is: engage the biggest unit in the High Elf book with your Warriors, not your Knights.

Indeed, our most recent game i fought them using my Warriors! kept them in combat for 2 turns before they were sadly over run.

St1mp0 wrote:
ah right thanks very much or answering my question guys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warpsolution wrote:
I guess the lesson is: engage the biggest unit in the High Elf book with your Warriors, not your Knights.

Indeed, our most recent game i fought them using my Warriors! kept them in combat for 2 turns before they were sadly over run.

And people give me gruff for fielding Chaos Warriors with halberds...

I can't really see why anyone would complain about Chaos Warriors. They're remarkably; they have very few weaknesses to exploit. And they're the most expensive infantry in the game. You get what you pay for, and in this case, you pay for a lot.

I meant taking halberds as opposed to either XHW or HW/Shield.