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With the power of deepstriking Heldrakes and infiltrating, the CSM codex seems to have a strong alpha strike. I figured why not make a list centered around 1st turn combat?

1769pts Thousand Sons
Ahriman (Warlord)
DP of Tzeentch- Wings, 3+, Black Mace
9 Tsons /w melta-bombs- Rhino
10 Tsons w/ melta-bombs- Rhino
15 Cultists
15 Cultists
Heldrake- Baleflamer
Heldrake- Baleflamer
5 Tzeentch Terminators w/ 5 combi-plasmas, Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon, Icon of Vengeance

Not sure where to go from here. Looking for a 2000 point list or a 1850 list if you think thats good enough

Seems like a solid list. Only thing I'd change are the cultists. They will break very easy and give your opponent easy KP. If you field cultist I Suggest combining them and giving them 3 heavy stubbers (1 special weapon for 10 cultists). 12 S4 AP5 dont hurt at all and for 5 points each it is very worth its price. More firepower. Tzeentch approves.

Alpha Striking at turn 1 do not work very well with Deep Striking and Helldrakes, since both are not available before turn 2
Actually nothing but your DP is able to be in CC at turn 1!

The biggest flaw in the CSM codex is that almost every unit wants to charge or be in position to hit hard from turn 1, but there is no point-effective way to do it. The only way to safely deliver a charging unit is the Land Raider, which is very durable (but a good placed drop-pod melta shot can be enough to crack it) but also extremely expensive point-wise.
No drop-pods, no reliable deep-striking, no fancy rule to help us. We just have to accept it. I believe that the key to succeed with CSM (maybe not at top-tier tournament level, but at least at FLGS level) is to find a way to be a fast, hard-hitting and versatile force. There are armies that are far better than us at shooting or assaulting, but with the good mix I believe it's possible to find an army that is able to shoot back and survive the first turns of shooting while closing distance or vice/versa, deal enough damage in the first turns to be able to withstand the following charge.


So i would do the following:

Add a Deepstriking Obliterator unit (Nurgle would be best, but also Tzeentch could work).

You can't have 5 combi-plasmas AND a reaper autocannon. As long as I remember the autocannon REPLACES the combi-bolter, so no plasma. I'd also swap it with an heavy flamer, 4 combi-plasma are likely to be enough to kill most big targets in one go, while the flamer will deal higher damage to regular troops. Also consider if the chainfist is worth the point, in my experience they won't survive the next turn.

15 Cultists by themself are will be wiped out in one turn of shooting without much effort. Increase their number and make them fearless

Diablix wrote:
Alpha Striking at turn 1 do not work very well with Deep Striking and Helldrakes, since both are not available before turn 2
Actually nothing but your DP is able to be in CC at turn 1!

The biggest flaw in the CSM codex is that almost every unit wants to charge or be in position to hit hard from turn 1, but there is no point-effective way to do it. The only way to safely deliver a charging unit is the Land Raider, which is very durable (but a good placed drop-pod melta shot can be enough to crack it) but also extremely expensive point-wise.
No drop-pods, no reliable deep-striking, no fancy rule to help us. We just have to accept it.[/list]

Actually there is a special rule in pay here, which is Ahriman's Warlord trait, this lets him infiltrate D3 infantry units. Through using fast units, possibly deep strike and maybe some daemons, a list like this can be effective and certainly fun to play.

I would change a few things with the proposed list though:

Ahriman or Huron are compulsory in a list like this, Huron does have a cheaper price tag.
I'd try to add more bodies to the board, and certainly ones more geared around your army's theory of alpha strike.
TS really don't fit in with the bum rush theory that is mass infiltrate and charge. You will also want a lot of bodies for filling up the board space to limit your opponent.
I'd probably lose the terminators. They are totally out of place this edition, cost a lot of points, and are not very efficient at cc due to the inability to sweep.

Consider getting an aegis line and a comms relay. It can be used to cover your home objective, and is also essential when trying to bring in deep strikes and flyers en mass.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Actually there is a special rule in pay here, which is Ahriman's Warlord trait, this lets him infiltrate D3 infantry units. Through using fast units, possibly deep strike and maybe some daemons, a list like this can be effective and certainly fun to play.

I know it, but still I see no use for it with this list. The TSons are in a Rhino, so no charge by definition at turn 1.
The cultists are held in reserve (or at least they should), since in such low number without fearless they would be tabled out by turn 2.

I agree, the word 'alpha strike' and this list have very little in common, though a turn 2 'bomb' might work.
Tbh I'm not a fan of TS, and don't think the list as it stands could achieve either.

I would either drop cultist for more TS or blob out your cultist sqad