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so i am going to my local gaming store tournament and i want to be on the competitive side in this turnment, but with that in mind i am wood elves i have played them for not to long now, about 20 for fun matches with some of the guys at my store. but this is the list i am thinking if running.

Spellweaver 330
• LVL4 lore of life
• Wand of wych elm
• Divination orb

noble 212
• Wild rider
• Great stag
• Light armor
• Moonstone of the hidden ways
• Dragon helm
• Enchanted shield

10 Glad guard 120

10 Glade guard 120

14 Dryads 180
• champ
14 Dryads 180
• champ
14 Dryads 180
• champ

6 Treekin 410
• champ

6 wild riders 192
• full command

treeman 285

treeman 285

2494/2500

now my plan is to do this kind slow march in like a tight formation and either take charges or gives charges with my treemen and treekins while the dryads are there for flank charges. the tree man will be moving the forests to get them in the position were i can have my wild riders get some good flank charges of to get rid of pesky cannons with the moon stone, but if no forest is there i will just use there natural speed to get the job done. i went with a heavy despell setup on my wizard because the army of choices tend to be vampire count and high elves

what do you guys think any advice should i add thing get rid of things anything at all will help

-Bodynox

A) You need a BSB.

B) You need more Glade Guard. Take this as a rule of thumb.

C) Dryads are chaff drops, keep them minimal with no upgrades.

D) Treekin aren't competitive. More Glade Guard are better.

E) Treemen work best in 3s. Two normals and an ancient. The ancient takes the, you hit me in 6s in challenges, and challenges everything, beasts unit champions down, and gains overkill, and punches characters upside the head.

Great list, I love a good combat Wood Elf list. Everyone I know seems to think Wood Elves are a ranged army, and I just don't get it! Bows don't win games. Just Note you can't have two arcane items on the same character, so you'd have to drop the divination orb or swap for a cluster of radiance. I would drop the Dryads down to 12 man units, that's their sweet spot. Remember they have quite a big footprint so you usually wont get 7 models on a non-horde unit.

Also your Noble can't take the shield (debatable if he can take helm) due to the kindred saying they can't take magical items other then magical spears and light armour (and apparently helms, they FAQ'ed them able to use HotH). Also I would suggest having him join a Treekin block with the Dawn Spear, they are a much better body guard for him and they benefit a lot from the -1 to be hit. Wild Riders are fast enough to be at war machines faces by turn two (vanguard move plus 18inch march) and they don't need the Noble to help them take out War Machines.

Then with those points ( 74 from dropping 6 dryads, 15 from nobles armour he can't use, 25 from divination orb) you should get a BsB with Asyild's bane and HoDA to put in a unit of 20 glade guard with banner of eternal flame (VC like Regen, and HE like Life magic). BsBs are incredibly helpful in a list like this, and should always be taken in an army with two treemen. Stubborn Ld 8 is good, Stubborn ld 8 with re-roll is amazing.

What do you think?

@ Edit, I don't agree with the above post. 20 Glade guard is more then enough to remove regen from a unit you need it taken away from. Although swapping a single dryad unit for glade guard might be helpful for chaff clearing. Treekin are plenty competitive, they are the only effective combat block we have. Eternal guard you say? Oh please.... Taking an Ancient means not taking a lord level mage, which is bad, but against HE and VC is suicide. They work well enough in twos.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Great list, I love a good combat Wood Elf list. Everyone I know seems to think Wood Elves are a ranged army, and I just don't get it! Bows don't win games. Just Note you can't have two arcane items on the same character, so you'd have to drop the divination orb or swap for a cluster of radiance. I would drop the Dryads down to 12 man units, that's their sweet spot. Remember they have quite a big footprint so you usually wont get 7 models on a non-horde unit.

Also your Noble can't take the shield (debatable if he can take helm) due to the kindred saying they can't take magical items other then magical spears and light armour (and apparently helms, they FAQ'ed them able to use HotH). Also I would suggest having him join a Treekin block with the Dawn Spear, they are a much better body guard for him and they benefit a lot from the -1 to be hit. Wild Riders are fast enough to be at war machines faces by turn two (vanguard move plus 18inch march) and they don't need the Noble to help them take out War Machines.

Then with those points ( 74 from dropping 6 dryads, 15 from nobles armour he can't use, 25 from divination orb) you should get a BsB with Asyild's bane and HoDA to put in a unit of 20 glade guard with banner of eternal flame (VC like Regen, and HE like Life magic). BsBs are incredibly helpful in a list like this, and should always be taken in an army with two treemen. Stubborn Ld 8 is good, Stubborn ld 8 with re-roll is amazing.

What do you think?

@ Edit, I don't agree with the above post. 20 Glade guard is more then enough to remove regen from a unit you need it taken away from. Although swapping a single dryad unit for glade guard might be helpful for chaff clearing. Treekin are plenty competitive, they are the only effective combat block we have. Eternal guard you say? Oh please.... Taking an Ancient means not taking a lord level mage, which is bad, but against HE and VC is suicide. They work well enough in twos.

A) Combat Wood Elf lists won't work in a competitive situation for the following reason: Armour. The entire book has no way to remove armour in combat. S4 at range in 70+ shots can do it.

B) A BSB is a mandatory include in elf armies.

C) If you're worried about the regen in life, then it's either being used wrong, or you're worrying about the wrong spells. Life has two major effects, +4 toughness, and dwellers. The rest are peripherals.

D) I say 70 glade guard, as the entire book is a ranged book, and 70+ shots is enough to deal with most threats. The way the standard lists work is those 70 glade guard focus on a unit, kill it, flee, focus on the next, kill it, and rinse and repeat.

A) Depends on the armour, Treekin and Treemen can effectively deal with most 2+ armour save units bring them to a 3+/4+ respectively, while neither option can deal with 1+ effectively. Also that's the main point of the treemen, to tarpit units you can't handle, which works very well with a BsB.

B) Lets be fair, a BsB is mandatory in about 70% of ALL lists.

C) Banner of Eternal flame is 10 pts, 22 if you count banner bearer. That's more then worth it even if the opportunity doesn't present itself. Also note he is building the army to fight VC, who make use of regen. Also the ability to negate a Life Spell means that's a spell you don't have to dispel, where is that bad?

D) Maybe most of our units have bows, but we aren't a ranged book. Only GG are effective shooters, no other unit comes close. 75 shots at long range does 4 wounds to a unit of chaos warriors with a 3+ save, or dwarf thunderers. 2 Wounds on T4 2+ save. That's your entire army. Don't tell me that's effective, even at close range Vs the 1+ armour you can supposedly handle its only 4 wounds. Any army that can present multiple threats quickly can overwhelm them, as with any army that can any amount of shooting (T3 no save...) or long range templates. Shooting is more consistent, but combat has WAY more potential.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
A) Depends on the armour, Treekin and Treemen can effectively deal with most 2+ armour save units bring them to a 3+/4+ respectively, while neither option can deal with 1+ effectively. Also that's the main point of the treemen, to tarpit units you can't handle, which works very well with a BsB.

B) Lets be fair, a BsB is mandatory in about 70% of ALL lists.

C) Banner of Eternal flame is 10 pts, 22 if you count banner bearer. That's more then worth it even if the opportunity doesn't present itself. Also note he is building the army to fight VC, who make use of regen. Also the ability to negate a Life Spell means that's a spell you don't have to dispel, where is that bad?

D) Maybe most of our units have bows, but we aren't a ranged book. Only GG are effective shooters, no other unit comes close. 75 shots at long range does 4 wounds to a unit of chaos warriors with a 3+ save, or dwarf thunderers. 2 Wounds on T4 2+ save. That's your entire army. Don't tell me that's effective, even at close range Vs the 1+ armour you can supposedly handle its only 4 wounds. Any army that can present multiple threats quickly can overwhelm them, as with any army that can any amount of shooting (T3 no save...) or long range templates. Shooting is more consistent, but combat has WAY more potential.

Whilst I acknowledge most of your posts, I disagree with C, using warriors as an example, the only way the book can hope to deal with some of their toys is to dwellers off the Prince, as he will tear apart any combat unit you have. Skullcrushers eat Treemen and Treekin, so you pretty much need to shoot them off. The same goes for any other combat book.

Also, how do those thunderers have a 2+ save? They have heavy armour and shields.

IF, and only IF, the rumours about the new super trees prove true, Wood Elves might just become a viable combat book in the meta, until then, in a competitive setting they will always be stuck to a ranged capacity, as anything dedicated to combat will beat any wood elf combat unit.

ok guys thank you for the feed back, let me be more clear when i say i i will be fighting vampire count and high elves we have just as much orks and goblins players and worriers of chaos players it is just i feel that i can beat those armies quite easily it is when i get to the vampire count i feel like i just cant kill enough before i feel safe charging with my units. and with high elves the always strike first really makes me not wanting to engage a fight with any unit they are going to throw at me. so i am not trying to build a list to fight those armies i want a list to get an upper hand on them not to tailor it against them.

also i am working on a new list i just had to go to class

-Bodynox


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord 233
• Bow of Athel Loren +35
• Arcane Bodkins +25
• Light armour +3
• Scout kin +25

Spellsinger 305
• Lvl 4 +35 of life
• Wand of wych elm +55

Noble 192
• BSB
• Light armour +2
• Royal standard of ariel +100

10 Glade guard 142
• Stranded barer
• Banner of the eternal flame

10 Glade guard 120

10 Dryads 120

10 Dryads 120

10 Drtads 120

9 Scouts 180
• Stranded barer
• Banner of swiftness

6 Treekin 390

Treeman 285

Treeman 285

2492 /2500

this is my new list i was thinking about

the other thing is were does it say a wizard can take a cluster of radiance in the wood elf codex it says only teem an ancients and branchwraiths can take it

-Bodynox

Oh, my boo boo, sorry. But I like this list a lot better, although the Royal Banner is never worth it (100pts for having a 6 up save Vs. magic? Not worth it) its just as good to have him as simply a normal BSB with HoDA. For the Arrow lord have you considered an Alter Lord? He gets an extra shot with the bow (That's going to be doing all the real damage of the unit anyhow), stupid fast movement and with Briarsheath is almost impossible to shoot down, easily making even the most accurate models hit on 6's. All you have to do is be careful about magic missiles. Admittedly that deprives you of Ld 10 general, Ld 9 of the Spellweaver isn't bad especially with the BSB. Also take note that if you takes beasts then you can cast savage beast of horrors on him, giving him 8 (!) shots which almost always hit on 2's. That takes apart a dragon princes on his own. Also scouts are simply over costed and don't grant you over much, losing Glade Guard Longbows is a massive loss. So what you should do is put those scouts into making the eternal flame unit bigger (at least 15) so you can reliably strip regen from even a big monster like a terrorgheist. Any spare pts should go into an eagle.

With the Arcane Bodkins lord, you really want lore of beasts. 7 S7 shots that ignore armour? Yes please. I'd advise against sticking your general out on his own. Even the most survivable general on his own(Pendant lord) can be shot down.

I still think that you're not shooty enough. Combat against VC only works if you have the damage output to take down a unit in a round or two. (Even Dark Elves can have trouble with some units) Which treekin don't have. What will end up happening is you putting a unit of treekin into a unit, which gets buffed up, revived and grinding them out. The best way to take out VC is to double up on way watchers. Two units of 6 gets you, on average, 2 killing blows a turn. That, combined with 70 shots into the VC general's bunker, will probably mean crumbling.

I would advise against Waywatchers Vs vampire counts in all but the most blood knight themed lists. The Waywatchers have only 2 targets in the VC entire army (Black knights and Blood Knights) that are worth shooting, both of which can and will be revived as much as possible. Otherwise the VC can quite simply ignore the Waywatchers, because they do very limited damage to an army that on average has a very bad save. Add that to the fact the VC exclusive scream mechanic by passes all their saves and will quite easily wipe a unit of the board. A unit of 6 treekin will do 10ish wounds to pretty much any VC unit, that's a lot of damage to any unit without GW or a Vampire Count grinder lord.

I would also say that life is better then beasts in this case due to amount of high T wounds that could be regen'd. So yes, i'd say that's a combat spirit wood elf army could be very effective when supported right, and even better then 70 glade guard shots, and at any rate, would be more fun!

the arcane bodkins lord is not on his own he is with the scouts that is why i have the scout unit but also because now that i don't have my wild riders i need some faster unit that i can rush around the back for cannons and lone wizards just chill-en in the back. so that is also why i don't take an alter lord because then he cant join the scouts, even though the scout are expensive with the games i have had with them i personal think that have paid their dues with keep massive orks or lizardmen blocks from getting anywhere close to my main force because of the i can march and shoot with out any penalty and just dance around and get out of there charge arc and keep shooting it is kinda a one trick pony in the sense because if my opponent see what i am doing they will just ignore them and march forward because he would know i have no intent to change then in the flank with scouts and my lord but the whole idea that i might is what i am banking on .

with the BSB it give fear as well.......but i see your point i really did not know what banner to use or if i should use a magical one to begin with but if i don't use that banner and take HoDa that save me 75 pt that i can put in to more glade guard in my eternal flame unit.

with the lore of beast wizard i can see what that is really good but

a. he is with the scouts and will be out of range 90% of the time
b. i think the lore of life is needed to be able to make the treemen treekin and dryads the killing force that they need to be so they can take charges and no die in the first round of combat

 thedarkavenger wrote:
With the Arcane Bodkins lord, you really want lore of beasts. 7 S7 shots that ignore armour? Yes please. I'd advise against sticking your general out on his own. Even the most survivable general on his own(Pendant lord) can be shot down.

Isn't he still limited to using the S of the bow which would be 3?

Maelstrom808

Isn't he still limited to using the S of the bow which would be 3?

yes to my knowledge

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
With the Arcane Bodkins lord, you really want lore of beasts. 7 S7 shots that ignore armour? Yes please. I'd advise against sticking your general out on his own. Even the most survivable general on his own(Pendant lord) can be shot down.

Isn't he still limited to using the S of the bow which would be 3?

My bad. Misread the rule.

7 shots (8 as an Alter, best choice in my opinion because it lets them shoot at different units, they will want to do that) even at strength 3 will put 4 wounds on silver helms/dragon princes/human knights and will put 2.something wounds onto T4 knights. He is meant to snipe 1+ armour saves which our army has *no* counter to, just don't expect him to kill a unit of blood crushers on his own without constant savage beasts. The real problem is making his points back, because even at the best of times (Chaos knights, Dragon Princes) he will only be making 60 ish pts back per turn, and you are unlikely to have many turns of optimum target to shoot at.

so i am looking through my list and how can my BSB have the HoDa if he has no bow

 bodynox wrote:
so i am looking through my list and how can my BSB have the HoDa if he has no bow

He takes Asyendi's Bane.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 bodynox wrote:
so i am looking through my list and how can my BSB have the HoDa if he has no bow

He takes Asyendi's Bane.

if i remember that 25 points and HoDa is 30 that too many point for a hero

-Bodynox

Asyendi's bane is much cheaper.

 bodynox wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 bodynox wrote:
so i am looking through my list and how can my BSB have the HoDa if he has no bow

He takes Asyendi's Bane.

if i remember that 25 points and HoDa is 30 that too many point for a hero

-Bodynox

Asyendi's Bane is 15, if memory serves.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 bodynox wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 bodynox wrote:
so i am looking through my list and how can my BSB have the HoDa if he has no bow

He takes Asyendi's Bane.

if i remember that 25 points and HoDa is 30 that too many point for a hero

-Bodynox

Asyendi's Bane is 15, if memory serves.

ha we are still both wrong it is 10 but i mean the re roll is nice but like that strength 3 hit...... but i guess he rarely misses with bs 6

-Bodynox

Not the point, the point is that it allows you to use HoDA, which is very good at clearing chaff, the thing your army list is most lacking. HoDA can, first turn, take down a unit of Hex Wraiths that would cause a LOT of damage to your treemen which you simply couldn't counter. It can kill an eagle that is blocking your way, it can be used in conjunction with the Flaming Glade Guard to pull a whammy on Trolls or a Hydra.

Just think of it as giving the Noble something to do while being a BSB, instead of just being a BSB. If your going to buy HoDA anyway, this is a good way because it is practically the only way to kit out a wood elf BSB other then Naked.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Not the point, the point is that it allows you to use HoDA, which is very good at clearing chaff, the thing your army list is most lacking. HoDA can, first turn, take down a unit of Hex Wraiths that would cause a LOT of damage to your treemen which you simply couldn't counter. It can kill an eagle that is blocking your way, it can be used in conjunction with the Flaming Glade Guard to pull a whammy on Trolls or a Hydra.

Just think of it as giving the Noble something to do while being a BSB, instead of just being a BSB. If your going to buy HoDA anyway, this is a good way because it is practically the only way to kit out a wood elf BSB other then Naked.

What you also need to note is never place your BSB in the flaming unit. So, if the flaming unit kills it's target, he can then fire at a separate target. And as he is using a magical weapon, he can't use the flaming benefits.

ok how about this any better any last min tweaks

Lord 233
• Bow of Loren
• Arcane bodkins
• Light armor
• Scout kin

Spellsinger 305
• Lvl4 life
• Wand of wych elm

Noble 132
• BsB
• Light armor
• Asyendi’s bane
• Hail of doom arrow

14 Glade guard 190
• Stranded barer
• Banner of the eternal flame

10 glade guard 120

10 dryads 120

10 dryads 120

10 dryads 120

10 scouts 197
• Stranded barer
• Banner of swiftness

6 tree kin 390

Treeman 285

Treeman 285

2497/2500

Looks pretty solid to me.

I'd still question putting your Ld10 general in a unit of Scouts. If you made them regular Glade Guard, I think you could keep him safer, not to mention save some points.

If you did that, and dropped the Dryads down to 8-strong each, you could even fit in another unit of Dryads or Glade Guard.
And I feel like Beasts is a better Lore for Dryads than Life. Treekin and Treemen like Life more, but I guess they're your main source of killing power.