Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone!

I'm returning to wargaming after a 7-8 years break and decided to start an army in 40k as well as in fantasy (which is what I've played before). I've been slowly building a force of Chaos Space Marines and even though I've only played two games against my friend's Orks, I've been lurking in forums to try getting a general idea of viable ways to play CSM. I've signed up for a tournament which is going to be hosted in March and have thrown together a list of what I'm considering to bring, and I would love getting some reviews. Any suggestions on things I should change, if I've accidentally made an illegal list, hints on how to get the most out of my units etc. will be very helpful.

HQ
Chaos Lord: Mark of Nurgle, Chaos Bike, Lightning Claw, Gift of Mutation, Veterans of the Long War

Troops
10 Chaos Cultists: Flamer

7 Plague Marines: Flamer, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War, Power Fist champ, Rhino

5 Plague Marines: 2 Plasma Guns

Fast Attack
Heldrake: Baleflamer

Heldrake: Baleflamer

6 Chaos Bikers: Mark of Nurgle, Flamer, Meltagun, Power Weapon, Veterans of the Long War

Heavy Support
2 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle

2 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle

5 Havocs: Mark of Nurgle, 4 Autocannons, VoTLW

Fortifications
Aegis Defence Line, Quad Gun

Allies
Herald of Tzeentch: Mastery Level 2, Exalted Locus of Conjuration

10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

I count it up as a total of 1851 (I'm not sure how serious that one point too much is, but if anything I'll remove the flamer from the cultists or something)

I expect to face a variety of opponents, (Black Templars, Dark Angels, Necrons, Eldar, Tau are the ones confirmed so far, I believe) and there will be both experienced players with cheesy lists and experience, to newcomers like me who is still looking up rules nearly every round and keep using my units wrong.

Do I stand a chance? Any mistakes in my list? Appreciate the feedback!

Hey bud,

Here's mistakes (but they're not mistakes.. just things I always recommend to avoid):

-Havocs don't need VotLW. If they're in combat against Marines the Hatred: SM won't save you because it's probably Terminators.. If you lose enough guys to take a morale test +1 LD won't help because you've probably lost the autocannons so you won't care about the unit anyways. Keep havocs naked with no upgrades.

-The Bikers are great now. 3-4 with MoN is fine. Never mix special weapons: either Melta x2 or none because they'll just be nothing more than a Lord delivery system. Don't give them combat weapons. They don't need VotLW because anything that is shooting at T6 bikes will be able to remove the whole unit anyway, so you won't need the +1 LD because you'll be dead (after you kill that tank with your 2x Melta).

-Power Axe on the Plague Champ.

-Like the bikes, kit out your PM's for a purpose. Double up on special weapons- Don't mix.

-Get rid of the cultists' Flamer, the Gift of Mutation, and VotLW on the Lord. Use some points from dropping 2-3 bikes and all that upgrade stuff to give your Lord Blight Grenades and a Power Fist. Maybe add some more cultists, who don't ever need special weapons.

You have a chance as is. Of course you do. Here's why:

-Good demons allies
-Competent anti-air (havocs/adl)
-Because: Heldrake
-4 Troops Choices
-FA and HS slots for the Scouring and Big Guns Never Tire.


Don't forget to put Prescience on your havocs with the Herald of Tzeentch.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I've edited my list from your suggestions, but have a couple of more questions:

- Should I remove MoN from the Havocs too? Isn't the toughness handy if they get shot at?

- Which unit is typically best served with flamer/melta? Melta on bikes, flamers on PMs, or the other way around?

- Is Gift of Mutation really not worth it? I've seen other people talk against it too, but to my newbie eyes it seems like it could be handy for so few points.

I'll be testing it against Dark Angels tomorrow. I don't quite know what to expect as I've never played them, but I've been told to expect terminators and plasma. Excited to see how it goes

I personally think that Gift of mutation is worth it on key guys. Last thing you want is your Daemon prince turning into a spawn. On a champion of a squad I would say its not worth the 10 point but on a pair of Daemon Princes or a Lord. I would say its a must have.

I am no expert of CSM by any means but I do play them and have had good luck with the Gift on the big guys.

I would find the points to put the other PM squad in a rhino as you can fire 2 guns from the troops inside and put 2 plasma guns in 1 squad and 2 melta guns in the other. The flamers in your list are kind of a waste as you have 2 kill everything drake flamers already.

and your oblits can give you more templates and blasts if your facing a horde army that you need it. Plasma appears to be the gun of 6th edition in my experience. I could be wrong. I play Eldar primarily and am learning CSM myself.

IMHO plague marines should only ever be given plasma or melta because you don't want them close enough to use Flamers because if they get assaulted you have low numbers and if they don't get destroyed they will be tarpited for most of the game, thus removing their effectiveness. Cultists should only really be used for holding back field objectives as they are cheap, and aren't very tough or stick around long enough when fired upon. Double hell drake is nice, bikes and lord is nice. Lots of nice things here only needs minimal tweaking. I agree completely with brometheus.

Gift of Mutation is okay if you can't find where to put 10pts.. 2+ Armor Save is pretty damn awesome, but rolling +1 BS sure isn't. Depends on your luck, I guess. Put it this way: If it comes down to GoM or Blight Grenades, I'd take BG.

If you *really* wanted to include Flamers, I'd say that Plague Marines are better suited.. If you aren't just handing out Plasma to every Plague Squad. Having Feel No Pain is a good reason to include powerful weapons that Get Hot. As mentioned above, you have the Drakes for templates.

I tend to enjoy giving PM double PG and giving the champion a combi-melta just in case he has the opportunity to pop a tank

My reviewed list is:

Chaos Lord: Mark of Nurgle, Chaos Bike, Power Fist, Blight Grenades, Gift of Mutation (might remove GoM)

15 Chaos Cultists

7 Plague Marines: 2xMelta, Veterans of the Long War, Power Axe Champ, Rhino

5 Plague Marines: 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino

Heldrake: Baleflamer

Heldrake: Baleflamer

6 Chaos Bikers: Mark of Nurgle, 2xMeltagun (Might drop one or two bikers)

2 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle

2 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle

5 Havocs: Mark of Nurgle, 4 Autocannons (might drop MoN)

Aegis Defence Line, Quad Gun

Herald of Tzeentch: Mastery Level 2, Exalted Locus of Conjuration

10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

The Lord could keep a Lclaw and get the +1 attack for having two specialist weapons.

If you dropped votlw on plague marines, gom, and mark of nurgle on the havocs could you pump the 2nd plague marine squad up to 7 aswell?

The Lord could keep a Lclaw and get the +1 attack for having two specialist weapons.

True, good point. If my math is right the list I last posted is exactly 1850 points, so if I drop the Gift and 1-2 cultists (depending on how strict the tournament is on that 1 point over) I think I got it!

Depending on how tomorrow's game goes I might change some or all meltas to plasma guns, but I'll have to see about that and how much the low range affects me. Tough decision when I don't know how many tanks I should expect...

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions, I appreciate it I guess it's all down to my skills and how the dice roll now.

Let us know how it goes.

SpankingApe wrote:
If you dropped votlw on plague marines, gom, and mark of nurgle on the havocs could you pump the 2nd plague marine squad up to 7 aswell?[/quote

Plague Marines are expensive, but I think I should be able to fit one more at least. Will see about it after tomorrow's practice game

Didn't have a chance to play until last night, where I ultimately lost against the Dark Angels with IG allies, although it was a very close game. I struggled with his Leman Russ with the big plasma cannon and wasn't quite prepared for a group of tanks (Chimeras?) full of plasma-carrying guardsmen rolling up right next to my defense-line. Another downside I noticed with my list was that he got some easy killpoints from my plague marine units being so small.

Would fusing the PMs into a 10-man unit in a rhino be a good idea? If so, any suggestions on where to put my leftover points? I'm considering buffing my lord more, maybe add more cultists or horrors.. Any input and suggestions are appreciated

The units I am the most satisfied with are the horrors and the Havocs, they were very hard to kill hiding behind the adl and did a lot of damage.