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I've watched Les' video on wet blending THs several times now, and am wanting to try some water mixable oils. I've been struggling with wet blending for about a week now, using acrylics, and my results run from awesome (purely accidental, I'm sure), to WTF is that?, and everywhere in between. Oils are supposed to wet blend easier and better, so...

I looked into the Van Gogh H2Oils that Les used, but found they no longer exist, or rather they do, but now branded as Cobra. My question is this, were they reformulated when they were re-branded, or is it the same paint, new name?

Top coating. Can I still use my trusty Testor's Dull Cote, or do I need something else? I realize there is a bit of curing time for the oils.

Thanks for any info.

By definition, oils can't be mixed with water:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil
So that might be the basis of your problems.

 Kroothawk wrote:
By definition, oils can't be mixed with water:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil
So that might be the basis of your problems.

Sorry, I seem to have confused you. Perhaps I should have said water mixable oils. And yes, there are quite a few available; W&N Artisan, Grumbacher Max, Holbein Duo Aqua, and several others.

Yah, water miscible oils do exist - but they don't behave like oils, and fall short when doing things like really diluted washes, glazes and other things which we like to do with them. They were really designed as a replacement for artists oils where you are applying rather thick layers of paste like paint.

Because they are not actually soluble in water - when they get thinned down too much (i.e. - where we use them) you end up having more of a vinegar and oil type dressing consistency where the oil paint keeps trying to separate from the water. The paint binder molecule also tries to curl up on itself, so you don't have very good adhesion compared to regular oils or paints that are actually water soluble. As a result, washing and wet blending done with water miscible oils ends up drying very powdery, assuming you manage to get it to stick at all (don't attempt to use them over a gloss coat like you do with normal oil washes - they will just make a mess).

Regarding the Cobra versus H2Oils - yes, they are different. H2Oils were made using a modified vegetable oil and were formulated to be faster drying - they were designed for use in early education art programs where things like turps would be right out. The Cobra line was formulated to perform more like oils in terms of working times and pigments used (including certain heavy metal based pigments). The linseed base dries slower, and generally is more suited to more experienced used (marketed to adults who want to switch from regular oils as opposed to children who can't use oils for safety reasons).

Reeves is the only brand I know of right now that still uses the same base as the H2Oils.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/reeves-water-mixable-oil-color-sets/

I've never used the Reeves brand myself though. The use of water miscible oils has always perplexed me. They are a lot more work than regular water based paints to get them where you need them for model and figure painting - but they don't have most the benefits of regular oils. Almost everything that can be done with them can be accomplished with acrylics and a little drying retarder or even just using water colors (which is what thinned down water miscible oils seem like most to me).

If I am going to use oils, I like a proper oil paint which I can thin down to the point of it being nearly clear if I want to and it will still stick where I put it and I don't have to worry about the oil base reacting with top coats I might attempt to use (yes - linseed and vegetable oils do not like varnish). The oil will remain greasy for months afterwards just due to the way that the oils oxidize and most companies only recommend using varnishes which are made with the same base (which creates more of the same problem). Even then, you need to wipe it down with turps or another solvent to remove the top waxy surface. If you follow up with an acrylic, it will bead up like water on the hood of a freshly waxed car.

So, there you go. Take a look at Reeves if you want something to behave the same. Take a look at any of the others if you want paints that don't (all the others being linseed IIRC, though one of them might be sunflower seed oil...been years since I looked very closely at them though). I would recommend another look at actual oils though. They are not that hard to work with, and most the dangers are easily mitigated.

Thanks, Sean. That was the info I was looking for, and more. So if I use regular oils for wet blending (bear in mind, I'm looking to wet blend power weapons and not much more), what kind of time frame am I looking at before I can top coat, and is lacquer alright for a top coat?

Ultra Grey wrote:
Thanks, Sean. That was the info I was looking for, and more. So if I use regular oils for wet blending (bear in mind, I'm looking to wet blend power weapons and not much more), what kind of time frame am I looking at before I can top coat, and is lacquer alright for a top coat?

Laquer over regular oils can be done after about 24 hours. You can actually do a rush with a lacquer varnish after about 2 or 3 hours and then the oil and the varnish will both cure at the same rate (roughly 24 hours) - though there is a sweet spot you have to hit with the rush jobs. Too soon or too late and you can get wrinkling of the paint.

With a few exceptions, the layer thicknesses we use with oil paints should be cured enough within 24 hours. 48 hours is about the slowest that I have ever observed - and that was with some larger scale things that were done entirely with layers upon layers of oils (a 4 inch "giant" with a lot of exposed skin). Even there, it was probably ready to be varnished before that, but I was switching from oils to acrylics for doing the detail bits of armor, bags and what not and wanted to make sure it was plenty dry.

Keep in mind as well, the varnish coat over oils is more to control sheen than to protect the paint. Oils dry with a durable finish that doesn't need protecting in the same way acrylics do. It also isn't an open matrix that collects dust like acrylics do, so provided that it is no longer tacky - you can normally blow dust off without any trouble.

So, if you like the sheen and don't plan on painting any acrylics on top of the oil - you can just call it done.

Thanks again for the great info. I think you've got me converted to regular oils. One final question, are you thinning with turpentine, or are you using other mediums? OK, two final questions, what would you recommend as a decent brand at a decent price? I know oils can get pricey, and I'm on a bit of a budget.

Odorless turps more often than not. I keep it in a self flowing resivoir and havent passed out yet from the fumes.

I have several brands of artists oils, but to be honest, about 90% of the time, I just use enamels (Testors Model Masters or Humbrol). Since I often paint in fits and starts, I like to not have to remix my paints between sessions. Artists paints normally come in 20 or 30 colors tops, while the enamels come in 70-100 colors.

They behave the same as thinned down oils, just less thinning and no mixing.

On the artists side though, I have Grumbacher, Gamblin, W&N and some generics I picked up to do smears on terrain. Although they do cost more per tube...they last nearly for forever in terms of volume. The cheap ones are down to about half a tube now and I squeeze out full thickness lines of those on a wrag to dirty up terrain and buildings. All the others could probably still be returned as full since they get dilluted down so much.