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 Boss Salvage wrote:
First off, Merry 2014 peeps! Secondly, Happy Snowpocalypse (if you're in the NE USA)!

We only got 3 inches down here, but we're pretty stoked about it (and I already had the day off!)

Boss Salvage wrote:As for the hellcannon, it seems a little weird for 1000 points, for lack of many targets worth one-shot-ing, though I'm guessing the LD shenanigans are pretty brutal at 1000 points ... if your army cares about that sort of thing

Fun Fact: Last time I played in an escalation league I ran Warriors of Tzeentch under the old book, and absolutely cleaned up with my hellcannon at 1000 points. But then I used it as an unbreakable combat monster and never shot it (There's actually a good chance the batreps are here on Dakka!)

Ah, I didn't think of the LD shenanigans! But against you, at least, I think he should have gone the combat monster route

Boss Salvage wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:I've got 1000 assembled of my Slaanesh cav list, and am still in denial that there's some Bad News Bears matchups out there.

Nice dude! I really do dig hellstriders, have contemplated what a bus of them could get done with some help from their friends. I'm not sure Tizz Daemons hard counters Slaanesh Warriors that hard, however light cav are particularly vulnerable to the kind of damage we bring (shooting / magic missiles of generally low strength, with metal magic to crack the armored things, all aimed at distinctly small units). Quite excited to hear about your adventures on the tabletop

Agreed... point me to it if you start posting about that, RZ! Would love to see your escapades no matter how small starting out.

Red_Zeke wrote:I'm just hoping that the Demon Prince-to-be manages to Glean a comet off the enemy. So Boss can relive the true glory days...

Third Eye of Tzeentch glory days!? Those were, indeed

So the league has moved on to 1500 points, however it’s proven hard to get games lined up, between work, family, Superbowls and birthdays. Today I managed to track Orzabal down to his mancave for our daemonic cuddlefest …

THE LIST

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - greater gift, lesser gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
20 Horrors - standard (gleaming pennant), musician
20 Horrors - standard, musician
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Flamers
Burning Chariot
-------
1500

GAME SIX: DAEMONS OF SLAANESH

Herald of Slaanesh - level 1 (SHADOW), locus of swiftness
Herald of Slaanesh - BSB, level 1 (SHADOW), greater gift
22 Daemonettes - full command, banner of swiftness
10 Horrors
3 Fiends
5 Seekers
5 Seekers
1 Beast of Nurgle
Soul Grinder of Slaanesh
-------
1497

*shakes head at the Skittle Factor*



Both Slaaneshi heralds rolled with the daemonette posse, giving all the ladies ASF. Meanwhile the Tzeentch herald, now happily disposable, cowered amongst the non-gleaming horrors for the nonce. Both seekers vanguarded up slightly, staying out of 20” from the screamers and their barbs.

MAGIC
Slaanesh Herald: Miasma
Slaanesh BSB: Pendulum || Gift: Fencer’s Blades
‘Slaanesh’ Horrors: Blue Fire

Daemon Prince: N/A || Gifts: Corpulence (+1W), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

Slaanesh was immediately wracked with guilt over choosing Pendulum, while Tzeentch grumbled at length about Blue Fire being a garbage spell. So it is in the Eye of Terror.

BATTLE
Turn 1

Skullflux - Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Exalted Gibberer & Arch-Coruscator - steps sideways into real space, gestures towards the massing Slaaneshi legion, and lets lose a mind-flaying shriek. A low babbling swells from his minions’ ranks as they scuttle and float forward in answer. 3-2 (+1 Slaanesh) winds brings Tizz Himself to the field to get things rolling, a rain of fire cooking a seeker and wounding the accursed beast of nurgle! The horrors follow that showing up with a failed single die blue fire, a 3 S2 blue fire into the beast that causes a second wound but amps it up to 3+ regen (plus raises a horror), and a searing doom into the grinder that can’t wound with the single hit rolled up. The flamers, having advanced rather aggressively, wash the beast with pyrotechnics, but 10 shots can’t make a single 6+ to hit.


As it would turn out, the blue gribblies had advanced rather too far across the board … Seekers make 17-18” charges into screamers left and right, as the beast and daemonette-star slam across the same distance in the center (!), whilst the grinder and fiends were not quite able to join in the alpha strike. 3-1 (+2 Tizz) winds isn’t enough to get any spells through, however more importantly daemonic saves are weakened across both armies, just in time for assault-a-go-go … The left screamers take three wounds, tear down three seekers, then 6-6 the instability (at -1) and pop! The right screamers are less vicious but equally screwed, taking three wounds, three more from instability and dealing none in return. Shortly thereafter the flamers are minced by the two heralds, their last couple wounds burning off in the face of overwhelming CR - but not before the Slaaneshi general takes a wound for his/her trouble The beast overruns into the left horrors and the daemonettes fall short of the other gaggle by an inch.

Turn 2

Tizz readies for the grind, with much prepping of guns and bailing out of heralds. 4-3 (+1 Slaanesh) winds manages a 2 S4 blue fire into the fiends, for a wound, 6+ regen and a raised horror. The burning chariot lines up a sexy flank flame, rolls the 10” it didn’t want, clips two daemonettes with S3 weaksauce and accomplishes nothing. The screamer is filleted a matter of seconds later, however when it comes to the beast of nurgle and the horrors, although the beast is able to nuzzle two blue boys to goo, it loses combat to CR and dissipates


Slaanesh Beta Strike, go! Daemonette-star prance into the horrors, seekers slingshot around the tower into the rear of the chariot, and fiends cavort into the waiting flank of the prince. 5-2 (+1 Slaanesh) winds are cast aside due to the wounded Slaanesh general not wanting to blow up in the process of miasma-ing the DP. The fiends begin the assault by tearing a wound off of Skullflux, losing one of their number to his blurring blows in the process, though the prince shrugs off the resulting instability test (#BROWNTROUSERS). The seekers wound the chariot twice and dissolve it with CR, overrun into the flank of the horrors and prepare for another round of carnage. All told the horrors lose nine of their number, while managing to pull down one seeker and one daemonette - and tearing apart the Slaanesh BSB! The horrors are faced with a hefty instability test AND REALITY BLINKS, resetting the lost wounds The daemonettes expand their frontage to better scrap faces off (and the prince reforms to face the fiends as well).

Turn 3

Welcome to the grind, ladies! The Tizz herald is march blocked and unlikely to escape the lone seeker hunting him down, so takes aim at the grinder and hopes to make it count. 4-2 (+1 Tizz) winds can’t get the attention of Papa Nurgle, though it gives all the juice the herald needs for a boosted searing doom, which makes it through without IF. Nine hits against the grinder results in four wounds, brutally crippling the monster. Skullflux victoriously high fives the fiends, leaving a single beast on one wound. In the grand melee, six horrors are diced (part two), a single daemonette is groped to death, and the explosion of blue horrors shreds three of the four remaining seekers. The horrors easily pass their instability.


The last of the Slaanesh charges make it in: the solo seeker races in for the Tizz herald’s head(s), as the soul grinder falls upon the waiting horrors, soul stuff leaking from the rents in its charred hull. 6-3 winds call Slaanesh Herself to the field, but with no free targets (and the Slaanesh general still on one wound), the phase comes and goes. In combat the Tzeentch prince splatters the wounded fiend and reforms, while the herald takes a single wound from the seeker but happily passes its instability test. The big brawl sees a handful of horrors dead for one daemonette and the last of the flanking seekers, and in a spiteful display the horrors fighting the grinder ward save everything the daemonic machine is able to dish out on top of wounding it! However REALITY BLINKS again and that fifth wound disappears


Hideous phone pic after reforms!

Turn 4

Skullflux hurls himself into the throng of daemonettes, and, after a brief pause for the winds of chaos (4-2 +1 Tizz), begins dismembering the lilac daemons with aplomb. Such is the pressure of the prince’s assault that the entire unit pops (6-6 instability) and is sent screaming back to the warp! Meanwhile the soul grinder figures out what stomps do, leveling a rank of horrors but taking that fifth wound back from the waves of blue horrors released upon it. Finally, the Tizz herald and Slaanesh seeker slap fight to no effect.


Slaanesh is again summoned to the mortal realm thanks to 5-4 (+2 Tizz) winds, but thankfully isn’t interested in insta-gibbing any princes today. As the purplish horrors bicker amongst themselves, the Tizz herald batters the seeker into submission, and the grinder squishes a few more horrors.

Turn 5

Deciding that the horrors should be able to handle that grinder’s last wound, Skullflux sprints for the enemy horrors. 4-3 winds give a tantalizing amount of dice to work with, so, despite the herald’s complaints about blue fire not being worth it, the horrors let rip an IF 6 S3 shot into their counterparts. Not a single purple horror falls … however 8 S10 detonates five blue ones! Lesson learned. The grinder then smugly finishes off a rank of his own horrors.


The infidel horrors call upon the powers of a 4-1 (+1 Tizz) winds (Nurgle is uninterested despite all the Tzeentch happening) to squeak a 2 S6 blue fire back onto the herald’s horrors. One dies, leaving the herald to hand jive with just the standard and musician. At long last, the Slaanesh grinder succumbs to the raw weight of all those jazz hands

Turn 6

Skullflux docks with the traitorous horrors. 6-3 (+1 Tizz) winds rip across the plain to no avail. And half of the enemy left on the table are deleted.


The Tzeentch prince jellies the remaining horrors with a shriek of triumph, before snapping his fingers and vanishing along with his remaining minions. To the Eye!

TIZZ VICTORY, though only by 1000 points, as I played the muppet quite a bit there with anything that moves faster than 4” and isn’t a daemon prince

- Salvage

As it would turn out, the blue gribblies had advanced rather too far across the board …

Wow, that was a scary start

The burning chariot lines up a sexy flank flame, rolls the 10” it didn’t want, clips two daemonettes with S3 weaksauce and accomplishes nothing.

Lol

The horrors are faced with a hefty instability test AND REALITY BLINKS, resetting the lost wounds

...

However REALITY BLINKS again and that fifth wound disappears

What is "reality blinks"? If daemons roll snake eyes do they get all the wounds back from that combat? That really seemed to make a difference, saving you 9 horrors at a critical moment! I'm pleasantly surprised by how well your horrors are seeming to stick around in combat

* With the screamers, I had intended to use them to keep the seekers honest by moving up to about 19-20" away ... but by the time I had moved the models on the flanks of the units up I ended up a couple inches closer than anticipated With the flamers, I was being overly aggressive moving them within 18", but I still don't think that was too ridiculous. Retaliatory charge rolls weren't insignificant: 11-12 for beast, 9-10 for grinder, 10-11 for daemonettes. I suppose an alarm should have gone off for me, that while all three of those charges are unlikely, allowing all three to go against the same unit makes it more likely at least one will succeed (and kill the flamers no matter who makes it in).

* Not convinced in the least on burning chariots. SD6 is bad on a template weapon that is already hard to hit with, and grapeshot as is doesn't work in 8E due to too many BS negatives. I've got 3 more 1500 games with this one, then I'll probably run double chariots in 2000, but come 2500 I'm switching over to baleful grinder(s) for my template needs

* 'Reality Blinks' is what happens when you roll 1-1 for instability. Not only are no additional wounds taken but all wounds caused to that unit (including characters in it) that round of combat are returned

You know what would really help horrors stick around in combat? If Blue Fire were direct damage, so they could at least raise a little bit while grinding. And, you know, magic things, which being magic daemons of the magic god of magic would make sense

- Salvage

Great report! Daemons vs Daemons is pretty wacky. I was expecting ward saves to be spiking all over the place, but it looked like the gods were more interested in taking a peek in on the action (makes sense I suppose)

I'm kind of surprised he didn't go double miasma rather than taking pendulum. I've considered the possibilities of pendulum, and with a lot of mobility and the right targets (like bolt throwers in a line) it might surprise someone, but generally? Not so hot.

Is there any metal magic spell you would have considered besides searing doom if you'd rolled it? When you selected it, I couldn't figure out what it was going to do, forgetting that the soulgrinder had an armor save. Off the top of my head, I can only think of final transmutation having any worth, given the pseudo-deathstar.

Thought you were up against it early- way to pull through!

He was totally kicking himself about not doubling down on Miasma. Pendulum might have made sense because of my mediocre Init? Except it's good (4) to excellent (8) on the single targets worth penduluming

The concept with the Metal herald is to always have access to an extremely hard counter to some of the nastier things in the metagame - knight buses and MC are all very high armor, as are chariots and some of the beefier big things (stank much?). I'm actually a fan of all of Metal, however only Searing Doom and Final Trans are really worth the IF, and that's really the only way the herald is casting his spell.

One of the most useful spells for this army and its general struggle to hit things is Enchanted Blades ... but again, hard to justify going big on, and too easily dispelled to depend on in a fix otherwise. For the record, I rolled up Plague of Rust here, which was essentially useless vs this army, though it could have nibbled at the grinder's save (which my opponent NEVER made anyway )

- Salvage

I have the same thoughts about metal, and love that you're using it

I roll TZ with Khannons at 2k, with dual lvl2 metal heralds and TZ magic on LOC and horrors.

Great uses of metal IMO:

Enchanted blades Makes screamers very good, works very well on chariots, LOC (Obvs)

Glittering Robe: is underrated. I ran up on DE twice at Waaaghpaca Had 15 horrors charge ito 14 Witch Elves and with glittering robe won combat.

Transmutation of Lead. Is a great hex for whoever the LOC, and my Khannons are fighting, if they are WS 3 it then makes them hit on 5's

I think metal really works well with the synergies, and I hope it continues to work well for you.

Remember that DE list (*cough* five warlocks *cough*) that tore me apart at 500? Came up against him again this Sunday for our real league battle, but this time at 1500 points. Spoiler: there are even more warlocks

GAME SEVEN: DARK ELVES

Supreme Sorceress - level 3 (DARK), talisman of endurance, dispel scroll, dark steed
Master - BSB, armor of fortune, dragonbane gem, lance, shield, sea dragon cloak, dark steed
10 Darkshards - musician, shields
6 Dark Riders - musician, xbows, shields
6 Dark Riders - musician, xbows, shields
Hydra - flaming breath
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
8 Warlocks - master
6 Warlocks

He’s headed towards a full blown warlockstar at 2500, though frankly it appears to have arrived early



The sorceress and master interlock with the large warlocks, forming DOOMFIRESTAR!!™ The expendable herald loads up with the non-glittering horrors. All the elf stuff that can vanguard will do so.

MAGIC
Supreme Sorceress: Power of Darkness, Word of Pain, Soul Stealer
Doomfire Warlocks: Doombolt, Soulblight

Daemon Prince: N/A || Gifts: Corpulence (+1W), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Tzeentch’s Firestorm

For the interested, the Tizz herald rolled up Enchanted Blades and strongly contemplated keeping it, but defaulted to something he could IF and get points with. The gleaming horrors rolled up Glean, and while tempted to keep it to strip the spells from his warlocks, decided not to. I still think Glean could have been workable in this match up, but it didn’t work at 500 points vs. one unit of warlocks, so I went with something more tzappy here. The joke, as it turned out, was completely on me

BATTLE
Turn 1

Emerging from his peaceful woodland garden, Skullflux suddenly spots a Dark Elven raiding party out hunting for souls! Quelling an unwelcome bout of nausea, the daemon prince points damningly at the mounted bastards, takes a deep breath and screams “USE ALL THE MOVEMENT ARROWS!!”

Screamers swarm out from behind their idol / scratching post, one unit overflying the vanguarded driders for first blood, and the other preparing to storm artillery hill. The burning chariot floats up to likewise power into the static part of the elf line, whilst lining up a shot on the smaller of the much hated warlocks. Meanwhile, the horrors shamble up, flamers bound out of the woods and wave their mittens menacingly at the smaller warlocks, and Skullflux steps to the edge of his sanctuary, gesturing obscenely. The first winds of the game slam through at 6-5 (+1 Tizz), however the sorceress is able to resist the will of Tzeentch threatening to break her soul. A blue fire sparkles across the battlefield in her moment of distraction (JK! The DE player never stopped it. You’ll see why …), the 1 S5 hit against the left driders failing to make it past their burly 4+ armor save. The lightshow is followed up by an IF boosted firestorm into the warlockstar, but it scatters 11” into nothing. The 10 S10 backlash however evaporates four horrors! Result?! Finally, the chariot manages to catch two warlocks with a good scatter, though S2 amounts to nada. The flamers show the Internet how it’s done and kill a warlock with 11 shots, plus give the rest 6+ regen for giggles.


Driders, ho! The left squad charges the waiting screamers, as the right gets into position to harass the prince. The hydra also trundles forward, catching up with the warlocks waiting patiently for their pet. Another enormous 6-6 winds blows in! Three dice doombolt on the chariot is dispelled, and the second three dice doombolt to the DP fails to cast. A four dice soul stealer hit’s the herald’s horrors, killing two and boosting the sorceress up to four wounds. A final two dice power of darkness is dispelled to end the phase. The darkshards then unleash on the incoming screamers, doing a single wound. Both reapers empty into the screamers as well, managing another wound a piece, as the right driders can’t scratch the prince in the woods. The left driders fair worse, failing their fear test, losing two riders, but managing to hold.

Turn 2

Tzeentch smash! Screamers and chariot swoop into the bolt throwers, the screamers angled to flank the darkshards if given the chance. The rest of the Tizz line forms up, with the prince still hiding in his woodland retreat. A 3-2 winds brings only passing attention from Tzeentch Himself, and gives just enough juice to squeak out a 2 S1 blue fire into the smaller warlocks (…), plus a scrolled firestorm. 11 more shots from the flamers can’t tag a warlock this time around, but who needs shooting when you can eat artillery! Both reapers are gibbed, though the screamers’ dreams of overrunning are quashed when the darkshards panic to the edge of the hill! Also, all those dark riders are nommed up, ponies and all.


The darkshards rally (barely!), while the hydra prepares to flame things, the surviving driders penetrate further into Tizz space, and the warlockstar backs up a smidge to make Skullflux’s life a little harder. Of course a 6-3 (+1 DE) winds roll will make it even harder! The phase opens with a three dice doom bolt (no doubles) into the prince, and after a lot of debate, the herald in charge of dispelling decides he can soak it. 10 hits becomes 3 wounds with a heavy side of lamentation! The six dice boosted doombolt into some horrors that follows is shut down with a vengeance. As promised, the hydra breaths on the screamers and chariot, wounding both targets once, and the driders patter off the prince’s ichor-slicked hide.

Turn 3

Stubbornly not wanting to spend the game running, hiding and eventually being cut down at range, Skullflux closes the distance and thunders into the smaller warlocks (15” charge all told). All the screamers descend upon the rallied darkshards, as the rest of the blue daemons find range and scoot about. A meager 2-1 (+1 Tizz / +1 DE) winds pulls at the daemon prince’s essence, to no avail (LD passed easily, if shakily). The obligatory blue fire whips up to 2 S6 and drops a warlock from the deathstar, gifting them with 6+ regen to boot. A firestorm follows it up, scattering 4” and managing to tag two warlocks with S6, for no wounds thanks to sexy sex wards of sexiness. The burning chariot then ploomphs out a perfect shot down the warlockstar’s flank, however thanks to a 2” deviation and S2 it only manages a single wound … plus one for warpfire! Holla! The flamers end the assault with 15 shots, which stunningly drop three warlocks plus land a wound on the sorceress thanks to allocation (bringing her back to her starting three wounds ) As the not-fires rage around the Elf command, the screamers tear down two darkshards for a wound in return, break them and catch the remainder, both units of daemons flying off the table in the process. Finally, keyed up by all the mayhem, Skullflux snaps the necks of two warlocks, but tragically has two of his three hearts pierced by the eevil elves and their murderous prowess, and returns to the warp. Sigh.


Spinning their mounts around in the ectoplasm of the dissolving daemon prince, the triumphant warlocks charge into the burning chariot at their back. Also dark riders burrowing into the backfield. A 4-1 winds promises a little respite for the forces of Tizz, and a failed soulblight on the chariot backs that up a bit. A doombolt does make it through into the herald’s horrors, splattering two plus a third thanks to doubles. The dark riders finish off the rank with two more kills. In combat, the warlocks slice a wound off the chariot for a ton of misses in return, however the chariot passes its instability fine.

Turn 4

The screamers race to get back into the game, as the full strength (full derp?) blue fire horrors get up in the hydra's grill. The winds whip back up to 6-4 (+1 Tizz / +1 DE), jacking up daemonic ward saves for the next turn. A single die blue fire into the warlockstar fails to cast - Thank you, Tzeentch! - as does a firestorm, leaving the herald with a handful of dice to hammer the hydra with an IF boosted searing doom. 6 hits cooks 2 wounds off the beast, and the miscast (#5) pops a horror. The flamers can only manage six shots at the warlockstar, but those result in a wound to the sorceress (two to go) and regen 5+ for the unit. In combat, the chariot suffers a third wound but crunches down on a warlock, drawing combat.


Tired of all the attention (and starting to get freaky mutated at this point ), the warlockstar charges the flamers. While they fail the charge, the stand and shoot drops the last RNF warlock, leaving the BSB, master and sorceress in the so-called deathstar. Also they now have 4+ regen The singed hydra barrels into the waiting horrors and the driders swing around the rear of the flamers, as the winds continue to howl across the field with another 6-4 roll. A doombolt into the flamers is dispelled, leaving the sorceress free to failcast soulstealer, though the chariot is successfully soulblighted by somebody. The dark riders patter against the flamers, shortly before the blighted chariot is torn down by some seriously 1337 warlocks. The hydra ends the turn by squishing four horrors, popping a fifth from instability, and regening one of his two missing wounds.

Turn 5

The large flight of screamers attempts to help out the horrors but fails its charge into the hydra’s flank, and the lone screamer chooses instead to overfly the duo of warlocks, dropping one with a healthy dose of barbs. The herald’s horrors march straight for the Elf HQ, with flamers bounding to their flank to bring yet more heat. The winds fall suddenly and sickeningly quiet, a 3-1 roll gimping ward saves and giving just enough dice for the herald’s searing doom into the Elf characters to be dispelled. The flamers’ 13 shots likewise amounts to nothing, though preposterously the hydra takes two wounds from the blue horrors released when he noms four more horrors. The hydra loses combat but passes his break test.


The herald’s horrors are sandwiched between dark rider, warlock and friends, and the remaining warlock tries to hide. Dark Elf fortune continues with a 6-4 (+1 DE) winds roll: doombolt is dispelled, the herald’s horrors are soulblighted, and the hydra’s horrors are hit with word of pain, irresistibly. The miscast (#7) is absorbed without incident, save for a single horror popping. Helped by the reduced daemonic ward saves of his prey, the hydra shreds and stomps nine horrors to paste, leaving only the standard alive. However the tide of blue horrors released is so overwhelming that the hydra is ripped limb from limb in the process! Worth! Meanwhile in the sandwich, the Dark Elf master skewers the Tizz herald, and with the driders' help every single daemon is run through … but this was all part of the plan! The wave of horrors hit the remnants of the deathstar, unfortunately after all the dice settle only the BSB has taken a wound.

Turn 6

With so many points locked up in just two warlock models, the scramble is on for Tizz. The solo screamer overflies the solo warlock, but she successfully absorbs his barbs. The thriple screamers then hit the same elf with triple the spines, however again she is unimpressed! The last horror on the field back peddles wildly, and despite a 5-2 winds giving enough juice to tag that last warlock with blue fire, he isn’t entirely stupid and tosses the dice aside. Finally, the flamers, choosing to sacrifice themselves to the driders in exchange for 4+ to hit against the warlockstar, wash Elf HQ with 13 shots. A single wound gets through on the sorceress, leaving all three models on a single wound each! An awesome warpflame could finish them all! The T3 test is passed once again, bringing their regen to 3+


The dark riders charge into the flank of the flamers, crushing them at long last. In the meantime, both remaining warlocks line up their targets for the magic phase, however 3-1 winds make it dicier yet. The solo warlock three dices doombolt into the solo screamer, hitting it with IF and killing it … and herself in the process! The sorceress tries for power of darkness but fails.

TIZZ LOSS by 493 points, 410 of which was my DP Maybe I really was supposed to just hide him all game? Or perhaps counter-charge the only thing slow enough to catch and likely to stick in combat (i.e. the hydra)? It also occurs to me that the flamers didn’t need to die at the end, as the solo screamer could have blocked the dark riders for them. All the same a surprisingly fun game, despite just how much went against the Tizz crew, not least the brutality of the DE magic phase, made extra galling against the vaunted Tizz one

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:


He’s headed towards a full blown warlockstar at 2500, though frankly it appears to have arrived early

Only read the very beginning so far, but wanted to pause in order to express my whole-hearted hopes that you pull the devastating victory off. Booo 'Lockstar.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Quelling an unwelcome bout of nausea, the daemon prince points damningly at the mounted bastards, takes a deep breath and screams “USE ALL THE MOVEMENT ARROWS!!”[/i]

Awesome!

The winds fall suddenly and sickeningly quiet, a 3-1 roll gimping ward saves and giving just enough dice for the herald’s searing doom into the Elf characters to be dispelled.

Damn. As the unit got bumped smaller and smaller, (and regen bigger and bigger) I was thinking "Searing doom, searing doom, you can do it..."

Preposterously the hydra takes two wounds from the blue horrors released when he noms four more horrors. The hydra loses combat but passes his break test.

Blue horrors! Hah! I feel like I you should start a Blue Horror Hall of Fame and record most impressive wounds/kills.

All the same a surprisingly fun game, despite just how much went against the Tizz crew, not least the brutality of the DE magic phase, made extra galling against the vaunted Tizz one

Made for a great read. Game felt in the balance throughout!

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Blue horrors! Hah! I feel like I you should start a Blue Horror Hall of Fame and record most impressive wounds/kills.

So crazy has my luck been with blue horrors that I've actually been convinced to swap the Greater Locus of Change (herald + his unit's strength = D6) out for the Lesser Locus of Transmogrification (dead horror spawns D3+1 blue horror) on my BSB once I hit 2000 points It's so my style of dice game

Glad you enjoyed the report RZ, it really was a great game to slug out. It's also stunning to look again at how many things didn't work out for me, and be reminded how insane his dice were, from winds rolls to channels to making 18 of 20 4+ saves in a row over the last couple turns

- Salvage

All things considered I think you put on a great show! Bravo against DE with Tizz Daemons.

Only thing I questioned was your DP romping into the Warlocks. I understand you not wanting to let him get gunned down without accomplishing much, but as you admit the 410 pts could have been preserved OR exchanged with a well timed flank charge against something else.

Shame the Screamers failed their charge/ could not drive-by on the Hydra. If you had made it and the screamers were closer to the action things might have played out differently.

Great battle! Thanks!

I think part of what pushed me to do dumb things with the DP was that in my head warlocks are still worth several hundred points per unit, while in reality they only cost 25 a model. So tossing the DP into five of them seemed like a decent enough exchange even if it cost the prince (as it turned out he earned nothing). I was also really hoping for a terror fail and a catch from the chariot, but that close to general + BSB it was admittedly pretty unlikely

I also think I got pretty overzealous with ALL the screamers needing to chase down the darkshards. Those overflies are pretty legit against T3 elves, even with 4+ wards, and having more screamers closer to the battle at hand, rather than off the table, couldn't have hurt ...

But yea, Game 2 of DP was a bit of a fail where he's concerned, I'm fine with admitting. I do think the match up didn't offer him all that much to do though, my derps aside.

- Salvage

For sure the DP was wasted in this game. No thunder stomp really handicaps solo monsters.

His bulk would have just been added to another combat (like vs. the hydra, as you pointed out) or as a last minute flank support (like in that pile up with your horrors vs the d. riders and warlocks near the end). Just 1 wound would have netted you serious points from the death star! So close...

Also a good point about the screamers. One unit could have run them down (the solo screamer perhaps), giving you plenty of support from the other three.

Hindsight and all that... There's always next time

At least this match was a lot closer than at 500 . You really gave him a run for it, and as you point out could've easily been a draw if the DP had lived. Third time's the charm

At long last I ran into my buddy’s Nurgle Warriors, but unfortunately it was at 2000 points, where both his tooled out prince and invincible BSB had come out to play. On the plus side, I get to reroll my to hits in combat

THE LIST

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - level 1 (TIZZ), greater gift, lesser gift
Herald of Tzeentch - BSB, level 1 (METAL), greater gift, lesser locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
25 Horrors - standard, musician
25 Horrors - standard, musician
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Flamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
-------
2000

The 2k games will likely be the only times that Skullflux appears with magic levels, and also perhaps the only time both chariots will come out to play. Though no promises on that last one, as they are both painted, and I’m quickly becoming a believer in their grapeshot, as much as I hate their flame templates and their stupid S4/T4 …

GAME EIGHT: WARRIORS OF NURGLE

Daemon Prince of Nurgle - scaly skin, fiery breath, soul feeder, charmed shield, dragonbane gem
Exalted Hero of Nurgle - BSB, nurgle’s rot, dawnstone, dragonhelm, great weapon, barded daemonic mount
Chaos Sorcerer - level 2 (FIRE), dispel scroll, enchanted shield
17 Warriors of Nurgle - full command (standard of discipline), halberds
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh - musician, spears, javelins
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh - musician, spears, javelins
Chariot of Nurgle
6 Knights of Nurgle - full command (banner of swiftness), ensorcelled weapons
Hellcannon

So yes, that’s a tooled out Nurgle DP, but minus the wings and the purple sun - in short, still a complete mofo! His friends are a bunch of mean bastards too.

A note right now on the batrep to follow: I didn’t really want to take notes and just wanted to roll some dice, but as it turned out this was a pretty easy game to report on, and I did promise completeness



Nurgle BSB rides with his knights and the fire sorcerer marches with the warriors, whilst the Tzeentch BSB saunters with the right horrors and the other herald loads up in the left horrors. Both marauder horsemen vanguard only the slightest, so as to not tempt the screamers right from the start.

MAGIC
Chaos Sorcerer: Fireball, Flame Storm

Daemon Prince: Glean Magic || Gifts: Unbreakable Skin (2+ AS), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald BSB: Searing Doom
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Tzeentch’s Firestorm
Horrors 2: Bolt of Change

The concept was to avoid defaulting to blue fire in order to get gateway on somebody, and if not gateway than at least direct damage spells that could be cast once the horrors are grinding in combat. Obviously it didn’t work this time around, with no gateway and the bolt being a magic missile, but maybe it would work anyway? Both heralds also rolled up Golden Hounds, and while I really want to make that spell work, the abysmal range really kills it for me … Except after the game I realized it’s a direct damage, which is kind of a big deal for me with this build. Food for thought!

BATTLE
Turn 1

With a ritual slapping of guts and passing of wind, the Nurgle line gets things moving with a general advance, as the Slaaneshi elements scatter further to the flanks in disgust (but not far enough to be overflown by vorpal skysharks). The first winds roll serves up about 8 dice, seeing a 2D6 fireball at the flamers dispelled and a flame storm into the BSB’s horrors go off Irresistibly. Two gribblies are burned alive(ish), for the cost of two Nurgle warriors in the ensuing backlash. Then the hellcannon roars, sending a screaming wad of soulstuff crashing into Skullflux, only to have the shot deflect off of the daemon prince’s ward save.





Knowing this may be the only chance to cripple or kill the rival prince before he buries himself in close combat, the Tzeentch forces mobilize for maximum damage. First the screamers overfly and return, popping the beast’s charm shield, as flamers and chariots get into position. An average 7 winds roll gives enough dice to fail cast both bolt of change (into the DP) and boosted searing doom (into the knights). The flanking chariot follows this lackluster display with 10 S9 grapeshot into the prince, for two wounds after hits and wards (plus 6+ regen), though the flamers can’t manage any follow up. The second chariot, out of grapeshot range, squirts out a speculative flame shot but it falls short.

Note: I’m still learning what these burning chariots are capable of. After how brutal the first chariot’s grapeshot was, I was very sad I hadn’t pushed his partner up to deliver a second volley, purely because of how little luck I’ve had with them vs. massed rank and file targets in the past. Live and learn. Spoiler: not necessarily living in the case of said chariots

Turn 2

After the pyrotechnics clear, the Nurgle host continues powering forward, with the prince leading with a charge into the waiting screamers (rather stupidly placed to escort him right into delicious t-stomp-able infantry). Magic blew enough for another dispelled 2D6 fireball into the flamers and another IF fire storm into the horrors. Thanks to scatter and ward saves no daemons die, though three more warriors are torn apart thanks to the same miscast result (#7). The hellcannon once again pinholes the Tzeentch DP, however a 1 to wound saves him from a second brown trouser ward save moment. And not to be outdone, some Slaanesh horsemen stick a javelin into the flanking burning chariot. Once combat arrives it is as brutal as expected, with the screamers being smashed and stomped to goo, and the Nurgle prince skipping into combat with the Tzeentch BSB’s block.


The soft Slaaneshi flanks of the enemy receive a sudden and devastating amount of attention this turn, with the left horsemen losing a rider to screamer barbs and the right sweating as a lot of firepower is leveled their way. However the big dumb decision of the turn/game happens when, baited by the enemy general, Skullflux decides to block the Nurgle knights and see if he can’t crack some mortal spines next turn … because after a boosted searing doom there won’t be much left anyway, m’right?? A paltry winds roll of 3 not only threatens to suck the BSB into the warp (he’s cool), it also denies the juice needed to keep Skullflux in the game for much longer. Some horrors try for bolt of change into the chariot instead, but it’s scrolled. After some grumbling about how stupid the magic phase can be, particularly for an army supposedly awesome at magic, the flamers roll insanity and remove the horsemen flat out. And the left chariot hits the knights with 8 S7 and wrecks three of them. Result! Also the Nurgle prince shreds a handful of horrors, though sadly the enormous wave of blue horrors unleashed (seriously, the lesser locus is ridiculous) can’t get through his multiple layers of defense, nor will they ever be able to this game. The horrors are fine - in fact they make their steadfast every round without incident.

Turn 3

The Sound of Inevitability eerily wafts across the field, as the knights slam into the Tzeentch prince and the Nurgle chariot hits the floaty daemon one. Magic is uneventful, and in shooting the hellcannon manages to miss both the unengaged horrors and the horsemen, though not without trying. Combat however is out right traumatic: Skullflux is challenged out by the Nurgle BSB, and despite monstrous stats and ASF the DP can do nothing to one of the most pimptastic builds in the Old World. In return the exalted carves two wounds from the beast, and thanks to an assload of CR the DP is dispatched in one charge, while I am left vowing to return to the lord-less 2500 build I was messing with the day before. Seriously: balls.

Amidst all that disappointment, the Nurgle chariot nearly finishes off the Tzeentch one with the help of CR (for one wound in return, the following diagram is incorrect), and the Nurgle DP sweeps off a rank of horrors - and soul feeds a wound back in the process. Joy.


Alright, deep breaths boys, sweet fiery vengeance can still be had. The screamers sweep over their horsemen friends and skewer two more, whilst flamers and chariot team up on the Nurgle warriors next. The winds finally tick up with 8 (Slaanesh actually arriving to molest the remaining two horsemen, but they stave off his affection with a superb LD roll), but only enough to fuel the embarrassment. Boosted searing doom goes off Irresistibly into the knights (exalted + command), however 2 hits only barbeque the champ and musician. The miscast kills two horrors, wounds the herald and flushes the remaining two dice from the pool. In shooting the flamers lay into the warriors for two casualties (and 6+ regen), shortly before the chariot sticks with what works and grapeshots for a mighty 8 S4. Zero of these shots hit (@ 5+). Combat is painful in a different way, with the Nurgle chariot easily dispatching the burning one before it can strike, and the DP splattering another rank of gribblies - plus soul feeding back to full.

Turn 4

No one can say Papa Nurgle isn’t a sport! Yet tis true, the Tzeentch boys’ chance has come and gone. BSB + knight standard + chariot buddy plow into the waiting horrors, whilst warriors jump on the waiting flamers. A full power volley (18 shots!) greets them on the way in, dropping two and hideously mutating the rest (5+ regen baby). Magic is inconsequential and the heckcannon had moved up instead of indirect firing at the surviving Tizz chariot. In the face punching phase, the warriors only manage to kill two of the three flamers, leaving the last to somehow stick around, and the prince has a similarly floppy phase, killing only a single horror … but being unbreakable there is no lucky instability to be had for Tizz The multi-combat sees more horrors fall though, with enough blue horrors being generated to strip a second wound from the chariot.


Wanting to join his mate back in the warp, the remaining Tizz chariot flanks the warriors, as the screamers pass over the last of the Slaanesh horsemen and fill them full of needles (mmm, needles …) Then, despite having literally no targets for any spells, the winds come up 4 and drop ward saves across the dwindling Tzeentch host. Such reign, much boon In combat, the DP stomps out another rank of horrors, while the burning chariot bounces off the warrior flank and is destroyed, though curiously that last flamer clings to (un)life with a single wound, holding the warriors in place. In the hurly burly, many horrors die, generating many blue horrors, which are unable to end the Nurgle chariot. And then reality blinks and puts them all back

Turn 5

The grind continues, with a brief pause for the hellcannon to scatter off of the screamers. The Nurgle prince reduces his horrors to the BSB and three friends; and those horrors that last turn escaped their fate in the other combat are killed (again). This time the tide of blue horrors successfully dismantles the chariot. Because 3+ armor is not enough. Oh, that last flamer is pulped too.


Moar Tizz charges! The screamers flank the last knight, hoping against hope. Magic is once again catastrophic, the winds rolling up 4 and keeping ward saves down, despite having no spells to cast (firestorm into the warriors wasn’t an option, something must have kept them engaged a round longer). However even with 6+ wards the exalted and standard only manage to kill a single horror and dish out three wounds to the screamers … though they’re so loaded with CR that they still win combat. The screamers hold and reality blinks and puts that single horror back In the other combat, the Nurgle DP is finally able to challenge out the Tizz BSB, who despite surviving the monster’s normal attaks is absolutely splattered by his thunder stomping. The remains of the unit dissipate into vapor.

Turn 6

Covered in the ichor from twenty-five horrors and their herald battle standard bearer (i.e. 660 points after bonuses), the Nurgle prince chugs into the flank of the other gaggle of gribblies. All remaining blue daemons are jellied, save for the last horror standard bearer! A massive tide of blue horrors whirls around the Nurgle knight standard, but his armor refuses to quit, happily containing 50% of his unit’s points. Reality deigns to blink for Tizz a third time and the standard pulls himself in two, returning to the Eye.

TIZZ LOSS, by 1500+ points this time around. A pretty disheartening game for me, where virtually nothing worked and I felt like I spent the whole thing trying to roll 5’s and 6’s (or more often 6’s and 6’s) against walls of armor. I enjoy a good dice fest but this bordered on pure desperation. The biggest bummer was losing my DP for nothing, yet again, even if I was baited into fighting literally one of the best builds in the game. It didn’t help that one of the other best builds was on his prince I do realize that I could have loaded my prince out a little differently to pay proper respect to how impossible 1+ armor is for me (Obsidian Blade > Unbreakable Skin), but frankly the reason I take so much searing doom is to erase these threats before they hit combat. (Shall we note the dragonbane items on my opponent’s characters? He’s well aware of what my double dooms can do to his army!) This works much better when the magic phase doesn’t crap on your army - and rolling 4’s for winds twice in a row, with nothing to cast anyway??? Sweet baby cats, dark gods of the warp!

HAPPIER NEWS

I recently won an auction for eight more OOP Tizz Renegades, at least a few of which will make it into this army sooner than later



(You've yet to see much of my actual army, but the heralds are all ancient CSM models, and I'm thinking about expanding the theme to include unit champs when I've the points to field them ... because GRIMDARK 4EVER)

- Salvage

Tzeentch sadly gets worse & worse the higher the pts as the lack of options starts to add up... I've found that we tend to be forced into going the MSU route and play more like Wood Elves rather than a typical Daemon army.

The Prince honestly isn't worth the trouble. Too squishy and can't even take the full 100pts of lackluster (or rather default + Lesser) Gifts.
A LoC on the other hand only ever needs his base Lv2 and then has a party with the Eternal Beatstick + Lesser roll. He's so far beyond what the Prince brings it actually stops being funny.
At 2k though, I still feel we're better off ignoring our Lords slot altogether, especially in a mono-Tzeentch list and instead concentrating on the Rare section. (Grinder/Burny Chariots/Drones as 'counts as' Changebringers) Or else getting the Lv2 upgrade for the Tzheralds.

Trading your Horrors down to 3x15 strong in place of the two larger units would also really help to give you added flexibility, as well as go a lot further to ensuring they land both Firestorm + Gateway. (Gateway would have honestly wrecked those angry Warriors!)
Dropping the BSB upgrade for a Lv2 on one of those Tzheralds would likely be more beneficial as well. Again, it's all about securing both Gateway + Firestorm on the Horrors. With Gateway especially, you'll be growing Horrors at a rather frightening rate.

Furies would also be a better chaff/chaff remover unit than the Flamers. You can get 2x 5 Furies w/MoT for just 20pts more than the minimum sized Flamer unit! (remove the mark and it's an even-steven trade)

The thing with the chariots is to keep them out on the flanks, supported by chaff removers. 10" flying movement is absolutely insane for a chariot! With a couple other big threats like a LoC and/or Soul Grinder, plus the use of Screamers/Furies to bog down and eliminate enemy chaff/war machines, the rather frail nature of them shouldn't be as much of an issue.
Still, if they're concentrating on your chariots, they're at least ignoring those other things!
Send them in for the impact hits + Screamer attacks to support big stompy things like the Grinder or LoC. Committing them to a combat involving even Horrors, let alone small units of Screamers or Flamers is just throwing it away vs. most targets.



Reign of Comedy definitely kept you down that game though! Not much we can ever do about it, beyond using Kairos for his re-roll or else wasting the Exalted Gift slot for the stupid Tome...

Also, it seems like you're making the enemy roll for Warpflame after each time they suffer one or more wounds from each individual unit, or am I just miss interpreting things here??

Cheers for the thoughts Experiment. From the bottom up:

> Warpflame tests are happening when they ought to, at the end of the phase and only once, I'm just a bit lazy with sequencing in the reports. Sorry for the confusion!

> I'm ok with the Reign most games, but it was just seriously demoralizing this time around. The thing that keeps me from bitching too hard is that I have had it insta-gib things and I do tend to roll more 10's than 4's ... but still

> 10" move on the chariots is actually not overly awesome to me, since without marching that's the equivalent of M5 plus ignoring intervening terrain of moderate size? The flying charge is where I've been totally shocked by how far they can go, the few times I've gone aggro into war machines or something. I've been jonesing hard to go double grinder @ 2500, but I think I'm becoming a believer in grinder + double chariot. Which is nice because my second grinder conversion has been demanding GS for months now, and I'd rather put it off even longer

> Furies, eh. I guess I have a conversion for them (spore mines), I just have a hard time being excited about them. Screamers and flamers can eradicate enemy chaff with ease, though I'm less and less thrilled about using them as chaff themselves, particularly since I'm looking to run them in larger numbers. That said, if you're trying to convince me to drop the flamers, it won't happen. Part of my goal in warhammer is to take Stuff the Internet Hates, and flamers are clearly on that sh*tlist

> I've been back and forth on how to run the horrors at 2500 points. I'll have 60 to pull from, and while I like 2x 30, I'm thinking 2x 25 + 1x 10, simply to have another shot at getting Gateway onto a big block, plus a 6th channel (HEXACHANNEL). In these 10 games have I ever gotten the gate? I can't remember ever having it, which seems utterly preposterous at this point. As to adding levels to the heralds, the plan is to run 2x level 2 metal heralds at 2500, because I do like the lore and am pretty meh on searing doom default at the moment. This was my first game with the BSB reroll, and it was awesome - both of those reality blinks were due to the reroll, and one of them was replacing a 6-6 with a 1-1! Good stuff.

> Finally yes, I do want a chicken, but I think he (and the second grinder) will be the reward for getting through the escalation league and getting 2500 painted. Eternal Lord seems like the way to go, unless I go Budget Lord with just two lesser gifts (all of which are excellent on the big bird). I think DP has potential, I just don't feel like he has many good match-ups at all. Maybe stuff he can t-stomp? But that isn't choppy enough to drop him in a couple rounds? And certainly not knights!

I'm feeling you on being forced into MSU, and we all know how well that works for woodies right now

- Salvage

Thanks for the report Salvage!

Yeah... if ever there was a time to have the obsidian blade on your DP!

Rotten luck throughout the match and it was an up hill battle for you besides.

Tactically speaking, I suppose you COULD have positioned the right screamers outside of the DP charge arch (which you admit was a mistake) which would have given you more fly-bys on the warriors and rear/ flank support in the multi-combat later on.

Similarly, you could have kept the burning chariot on the right out of combat and taken a chance on more grapeshot or even flames into the Nurgle Warriors. I feel like at the time you had just said "what the f*ck... live a little..." and pushed the chariot into the flank of the combat for giggles. I can understand that thought considering how the game was turning out... but a grape shot (or two!) could have reduced the warriors to below half (potentially...)

Last comment would be on the DP, but honestly he had no where to safely go in this battle... IF he had the no armor save sword he could have shaved off some knights later in the game or erased the chariot with a flank charge... if he had lived into later turns, he could have even gone into the Warriors to unleash thunder stomp (if he could endure the rain of str 5 attacks that came his way...) I think you are spot on with "find something to thunder stomp" as the game plan for your prince... or just drop him all together as you and Experiment suggest.

Two lvl 2's and points for the soul grinder sounds like a better route in my opinion as well.

Oh! And I think MSU would probably be better for spell generation, but if you want to keep the "big blocks" for grinding purposes, you just need to have options for supporting charges sticking around... Too bad a stray Beast or two can't make its way into your list

Keep up the good fight!

Pervertdhermit wrote:

Oh! And I think MSU would probably be better for spell generation, but if you want to keep the "big blocks" for grinding purposes, you just need to have options for supporting charges sticking around... Too bad a stray Beast or two can't make its way into your list

Keep up the good fight!

Emphasis mine, as if you're interested in trying some out but still keeping the mono-Tzeentch theme, convert some Firewyrms of Tzeentch! (old unit from the Hordes of Chaos days, basically a Chaos Spawn w/Mark of Tzeentch that could breath fire!)

I converted mine from;
- lower body + head + 'fire shooting' half of arm from an Exalted Flamer
- torso from a Chaos Spawn
- 1 arm from a Flamer of Tzeentch
- 2 Chaos Spawn heads (one being the birdy head naturally!)
- 3 Chaos Spawn arms (2 of the clawed hands - one of which being the feathered arm + whatever 3rd arm you fancy)

it's a bit of work and requires a bunch of gap-filling + a little light sculpting, but overall it only took me about a week or so of fiddling and figuring out how to pull it off. The second one went together much faster and spent more time waiting for the green stuff stages to set/harden than actual building time!


As an added bonus, I then used the leftover Disc from the Chariot kit + a regular Flamer to build a Changebringer. (again, old unit from the 6th ed Storm of Chaos book) They use the rules for Plaguedrones.
If you've saved the leftover tails from the new plastic Screamers, then you can add two more from the Chariot pair, plus the added Blue Horrors for making tokens and a Tzherald on foot.

That Chariot box is literally a $50 bitz box of awesomesauce for Tzeetnch armies!


Having those two 'counts as' units adds a heap of much needed utility IMHO that Tzeentch otherwise lacks. Even just the pair of solo Firewyrms(Beasts) really evens up the chaff game big time, and takes the pressure off of your spellcasters to do pretty much everything. (and leaves the Screamers free to keep up their fly-bys)
The Changebringers(Drones) adds another combat block alongside the Grinder + LoC, giving you 3 solid options for hitting things, plus they make excellent use of the Banner of E.Flame to help stomp regen units.

Anyways, hope this helps!

On the topic of adding 'Counts As' elements to the army, I can pretty much guarantee it'll happen at some point - I mean hell, my Skaven army is 100% CA and includes weird conversions for every unit in the book! For now I'd like to avoid it, particularly Nurgle units due to the whole rivalry thing, and because I dislike running things that everybody expects to see in an army. This totally goes for solo beasts and drone assault units, sadly. Though props for the plague drone = change bringer equation, the current Nurgle unit fits the old Tizz unit pretty well (particularly if you take the shooting option, as weaksauce as it is in game).

I'm actually a lot more likely to add in some Khorne units first. I've got a full strength (4-5) bloodcrusher unit sitting in a box unbuilt, bought before the new DoC book even came out simply on strength of kit. They're also exciting to me because I've virtually never seen them on the table, yet see skullcrushers continuously (for obvious reasons if we're all honest here). I've also messed around with taking Karanak, on his lonesome and with doggy friends, though the downside of flesh hounds is that they're just more S4/T4 on top of what I've got

Before any of this though is probably figuring out some Tizz fiends. 90 pt heralds as my cheapest redirector only goes so far

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
On the topic of adding 'Counts As' elements to the army, I can pretty much guarantee it'll happen at some point - I mean hell, my Skaven army is 100% CA and includes weird conversions for every unit in the book! For now I'd like to avoid it, particularly Nurgle units due to the whole rivalry thing, and because I dislike running things that everybody expects to see in an army. This totally goes for solo beasts and drone assault units, sadly. Though props for the plague drone = change bringer equation, the current Nurgle unit fits the old Tizz unit pretty well (particularly if you take the shooting option, as weaksauce as it is in game).

I'm honestly chomping at the bit for 9th to come so I can simply use the Firewyrms as proper allied Chaos Spawn w/MoT.
Still, for now they work decently, though I'm hoping to get the other pair converted soon so I can run them as 2x2 units instead of the netlisty 2x solo versions. And you have no idea how stupidly god-awful the shooting option for the Changebringers really is! I mean, they make Flamers look completely OTT by comparison! I'd seriously love to know what Ward was smoking when he thought that Death's Heads could possibly be worth 10pts a pop... BS3 with only a 12" range... Sure they're multiple wounds D3, but still, hitting on 6's with only 4-5 shots for your typical unit means you're lucky to even land a single hit!
I'll still pay for it though, because it does lend itself perfectly to the Tzeentchiness of the unit, but I've yet to actually kill anything relevant with it. (though I've left a few opponents on the floor, in tears of laughter at how many points I've sunk into a near-useless ability, so that has to count as at least a token win?!)

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I'm actually a lot more likely to add in some Khorne units first. I've got a full strength (4-5) bloodcrusher unit sitting in a box unbuilt, bought before the new DoC book even came out simply on strength of kit. They're also exciting to me because I've virtually never seen them on the table, yet see skullcrushers continuously (for obvious reasons if we're all honest here). I've also messed around with taking Karanak, on his lonesome and with doggy friends, though the downside of flesh hounds is that they're just more S4/T4 on top of what I've got

Before any of this though is probably figuring out some Tizz fiends. 90 pt heralds as my cheapest redirector only goes so far

- Salvage

I'd originally thought of using the Dark Eldar Khymerae as the base for a Tzeentch-hound conversion... but then GW went and Finecrapped all over that plan. >.<
I'd intended to add some green stuff to the head/face in order to make it more avian and add some feathers around the collar area, but now I'm stuck looking for a different puppy to act as the foundation.
The Hounds though would be a decent addition, as you can upgrade them to Ambushers ensuring easy rear/flank charges and/or backfield disruption. Plus you only leave them open to a Slaaneshii RoC raping for a single turn before they're in combat. S5 on the charge isn't to sniffed at either - perfect for taking out rear line shooters/war machines and the like, plus you get solid WS instead of the traditional Tzeentch noodle-slapping skills.

As for 'Crushers, obviously we don't see 'em because Drones beat them hands down at absolutely everything, while being cheaper to boot! (poor Khorne, he just can't catch a break!)
Still, 3-4 'Crushers depending on if you add a Herald or not work okay as a flank hitter. Not terribly efficient, but if you can get them some support from say a Grinder/Greater or the like, you should get some results from them.
One benefit from using them alongside a Tzeentch army is access to the two critical buffs they really need, namely Enchanted Blades + Glittering Robe. +1 to-hit means less need for overspending on Hatred locus, and getting that +1 for a 3+ save in total is huge, considering most of the time you want them fighting S3/4 dudes.

The latest report was hilarious . Looks like you were a good sport about it, and I'm very interested to see your lord-less 2500 build that you alluded to, since the Tizz DP hasn't been doing much for you lately.

 RiTides wrote:
The latest report was hilarious . Looks like you were a good sport about it, and I'm very interested to see your lord-less 2500 build that you alluded to, since the Tizz DP hasn't been doing much for you lately.

Spoiler: I think I'm going to complete the escalation league out with the DP in charge, in large part because I love the model and spent a long time painting him ... and also because I still want a second beatstick, even a somewhat derpy one, until I get the second grinder done (to go with the first one that isn't painted yet ) at least. The lordless build is certainly less vulnerable to giving up 400+ points in a single cannonball shot, but it also lacks some of the counter-punch that the DP hypothetically brings. And that in fact is the plan: to play much more passively with the DP, keep him safe and available for counter-charge or combo-charge duties with the various fast elements of the list.

(Coincidentally this is how I was able to get some mileage out of my Skaven's Vermin Lord, another instance of a monster who can kill single targets or stompable things, but at T5 and 5+ ward struggles to stay alive. The upside of the VL is that since he's a level 4 he can do something while he waits for his opening. With no magic levels, the DP ... provides LD 9 over 18"? Really really wish I could at least give him a little shooting attak ala the last book, but I guess no luck beyond rolling up the breath weapon lesser gift. Current DP build is looking like 2x lessers + chaos armor, with the plan to push that 4+ to a 2+ with the help of Glittering Robes )

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Both heralds also rolled up Golden Hounds, and while I really want to make that spell work, the abysmal range really kills it for me … Except after the game I realized it’s a direct damage, which is kind of a big deal for me with this build. Food for thought!

Interesting! Do you feel like the heralds live long enough in combat to keep throwing out direct damage?

Note: I’m still learning what these burning chariots are capable of. After how brutal the first chariot’s grapeshot was, I was very sad I hadn’t pushed his partner up to deliver a second volley, purely because of how little luck I’ve had with them vs. massed rank and file targets in the past. Live and learn. Spoiler: not necessarily living in the case of said chariots

I definitely overlooked this on paper, and haven't heard about anyone else exploring the joys of burning chariot grapeshot. Any thoughts why?

...though sadly the enormous wave of blue horrors unleashed (seriously, the lesser locus is ridiculous) can’t get through his multiple layers of defense, nor will they ever be able to this game.

Kind of in the same way that I'm really interested in the slayer deathblow, I am excited to see this eventually do something sweet...


Good report- gotta say, even as rough as the prince has been for you, I agree on the need for a beater in the list, and those are pretty hard to come-by in mono-Tzeentch. Looking forward to more!

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Interesting! Do you feel like the heralds live long enough in combat to keep throwing out direct damage?

Against WoC? Absolutely, thanks to the auto-challenge rule and being able to go stand at the back. Against other things ... probably not, if the enemy wants him dead bad enough. Seeing how level 2 adds another 35 points to each herald, I'm probably more likely to do the old abandon ship maneuver and stand behind the unit anyway, though as for the locus herald I suppose I'll be relying on some super sweet greater gift + smoking wards ftw

I definitely overlooked this on paper, and haven't heard about anyone else exploring the joys of burning chariot grapeshot. Any thoughts why?

Grapeshot is mired in shooting negatives at the moment (-2 for moving + range nearly all the time), meaning the chariot is hitting on 5+ against things that aren't in cover or skirmishers, which is probably a big deterrent for most, when you're tossing 2-10 dice and likely risking the chariot in the process. I think another factor is that if people are taking a burning chariot (or two), then they're also likely taking at least one skillcannon, so the need to paste single targets is less compared to nuking a unit with a flame template.

Good report- gotta say, even as rough as the prince has been for you, I agree on the need for a beater in the list, and those are pretty hard to come-by in mono-Tzeentch. Looking forward to more!

Well, the real answer, as has been pointed out several times, is to take a Lord of Change w/ Eternal Blade ... but as I won't get to mine until the summer I'll just have to make do with Ol' Fluxy

- Salvage

How many more games are in the escalation league?

We have 4 games in each 500pt tier, they were spread so everyone played everyone once, 2000 point only had 3 games due to number of players. After 2000 tier is over then we have 4 games at 2500 based on top battle points over the first 4 tiers. You also get 1 BP per tier for having your army fully painted.

 oneball wrote:
We have 4 games in each 500pt tier, they were spread so everyone played everyone once, 2000 point only had 3 games due to number of players. After 2000 tier is over then we have 4 games at 2500 based on top battle points over the first 4 tiers. You also get 1 BP per tier for having your army fully painted.

What he said

At this point I personally have five to go: 1000 vs HE, 1500 vs DoC & OK, 2000 vs VC & Dwarfs ...

- Salvage

Hey Boss, i'm just dropping in to say that I'm glad you're back to playing some fantasy warhammer with the guys back in Albany. I ended up moving to Taiwan to teach English, so please say hello to all the Shambling Horde folks and the Grimfoe guys as well for me!

I look forward to reading your future reports! Cheers!