Article Discussion: Kill Team Tactica (for Warhammer 40,000 6th edition)

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**Anonymous**

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**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Hi, welcome to the discussion area for the Kill Team Tactica!

We started this section as we played a lot of Kill Team games in our local meta, noticing there's a few incorrect assumptions that even smart, veteran players make. While it's a 200-point game, it's not JUST a 200-point game, so we really consolidated all our experience to just warn great strategists like you in advance. This Tactica is a short summary of what we've seen work under Kill Team conditions, plus some highlights on top units that perform particularly well, especially those that have been overlooked in normal large-scale games. This is an ongoing discussion for something that we find very tactical.

Disclaimer - We're finding new Killer Kill Team Tactics all the time, so we're always re-evaluating and revising. There's so many combinations to try! We actually have a lot of fun doing this.

Last Update: Jan 14, 2014

Units Analysed: Top units from the latest Space Marines, Orks, Imperial Guard Codices

Latest Changes: We basically got back together after the holidays and looked at the new Kill Team supplement on sale now. Previously, we used a ruleset that was published for free for Warhammer World events, before this release. There's a lot of differences, plus a lot of new possibilities. All things considered, we're actually much happier with this complete version, which we really look forward to playing more with.

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

As per my last update, I've made massive changes. At 1st, it was a long treatise on the Kill Team rules.

But no one wants to read that! So I boiled down the key things 1st time Kill Team players overlook.

Then everything else, I'm going to put in Codex-specific parts. Players want to read about their own armies.

Thus, the changes are for YOU, our esteemed readers. Hope you find it helpful!

---

UPDATE - An analysis of Space Marine units for Kill Team, and sample army lists, completed!

We will return to look at the other MEQs at a later point.

**Insane Smile**

I really like it. I learned quite a lot. Wondering if you could do IG after DA ORKS!

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Insane Smile wrote:
Wondering if you could do IG after DA ORKS!

This is a very good idea. Thanks for this suggestion. I've personally been very interested in IG. We'll make this so.

**BrookM**

Neat, I'm going to keep an eye on this one as we're having a Kill-Team day ourselves some time next month.

I'm also personally glad that GW put in some hard counters against the Riptide and certain vehicles, something they learned the hard way last time round at their Nottingham event earlier this year.

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

BrookM wrote:
Neat, I'm going to keep an eye on this one as we're having a Kill-Team day ourselves some time next month.

1st, really glad our experience sharing will be helpful. Because we are starting to believe this:

Don't go into a 200 pt Kill Team with assumptions from a 2,000 pt normal game.

Like we were debating SM Assault Squads. 6th ed is the dakka ed, etc., but they're different in KT.

So the hard thing with this isn't to remember...it is to forget, all the habits that aren't true.

Writing these articles helps us, too. In organizing the info, our KT circle appreciate everything...in a totally new light.

And there's so much yet to try.

BrookM wrote:
I'm also personally glad that GW put in some hard counters against the Riptide and certain vehicles, something they learned the hard way last time round at their Nottingham event earlier this year.

And this was exactly why I personally committed to this article. Those free rules...they are ready now.

The Warhammer World events just brought all the bugs out of the woodwork, like that Riptide, also:

- Doom of Malantai lists
- That Blood Angel Librarian Dreadnought
- Using Nurglings as Leaders because they have Ld 10

So, the new rules were really copied from Combat Patrol aka 40k in 40 minutes, but they perfect sense.

I think it's been a long time since GW brought something this polished to the table.

And we're aiming, even with this tactica, to be as polished. Simple, concise, yet also precise.

So thanks, I hope to fill this out some more within this month. It's tricky, with so many things to try.

**BrookM**

I'm glad that the Wave Serpent is no longer allowed.

But as said, really looking forward to the next update, this is certainly something I'm going to share with the group.

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

A major update today, Ork unit analyses.

Orks were very interesting. The Kill Team condition really turned some of their units around. Some bad units in big games are really good in Kill Team, while a few popular choices actually do worse in these 200 point games.

We played a lot of Orks as my closest collaborator in these articles and I are Greenskin fans. We kept this short, but we looked at a lot of options normal people wouldn't take.

As such, this army analyses is probably most shocking.

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

UPDATE - Now Orks are complete with sample lists!

**Boblogik**

Definitely following this, me and my friends have been playing a lot of smaller games lately. Thumbs up for your work put into this.

**Sandyman11**

Requesting a look at the Sons of Russ if I may?

**Dez**

Great work!

Our group just played some Kill Teams games last night, and I played Orks myself. I wish I had seen this article beforehand, because Fleshbane was sorely needed versus those White Scars bikes.

My list:

Kommandoz x5
-Burnaz x2, one with the Rending SR which was awesome!

Boys x16
-Shootas
-Rampage on one boy
-Nob w/Eavy Armor and Hatred

The Nob got blasted immediately in both games. However, he is pretty tough with 2 wounds I just need to add more survivability in place of killing power. For instance, FNP or Shrouded. Shoota boyz just downed Marines with concentrated fire, but struggled vs White Scars Bikes.

I took the Kommandoz just to be casual, but also because I got 2 Burnaz in a minimum size unit.

Next time, I'm going to try Deffkoptaz!

I just thought about something: Deffkoptaz have Hit and Run. Granted if their Initiative were a bit higher this might be more useful. Don't forget Furious Charge, Big Bombs (give the Kopta Rending or Ignores Cover!) which can be used even if it Turbo Boosted!

**liquidjoshi**

This is an awesome article. Kill teams has always been one of my favourite game types, so seeing a tactica for it is pretty damn cool

I'd like to see an analysis of Tau, moreover a look into the viability of Farsight Enclaves (Yes, I want to run a full Crisis suit Kill Team

)

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Hi guys, thank you for following the article and your continued readership. And leadership. We continue to read everyone's post, to consolidate these experiences.

Just a disclaimer: we are revising as we go along. 40k is quite papers-scissors-rock; everything has a counter. In a Kill Team game, even more so.

Sandyman11 wrote:Requesting a look at the Sons of Russ if I may?

We'll put this after Imperial Guard then...because it's very popular. Space Wolves have such a variety of units (beasts, cavalry, etc.) in a single Codex.

Previously, we had Eldar. I had nominated this as it's considered a top Codex right now, but because of that...it doesn't need more analysis.

Dez wrote:Great work!

Our group just played some Kill Teams games last night, and I played Orks myself. I wish I had seen this article beforehand, because Fleshbane was sorely needed versus those White Scars bikes.

My list:

Kommandoz x5
-Burnaz x2, one with the Rending SR which was awesome!

Boys x16
-Shootas
-Rampage on one boy
-Nob w/Eavy Armor and Hatred

The Nob got blasted immediately in both games. However, he is pretty tough with 2 wounds I just need to add more survivability in place of killing power. For instance, FNP or Shrouded. Shoota boyz just downed Marines with concentrated fire, but struggled vs White Scars Bikes.

I took the Kommandoz just to be casual, but also because I got 2 Burnaz in a minimum size unit.

Next time, I'm going to try Deffkoptaz!

I just thought about something: Deffkoptaz have Hit and Run. Granted if their Initiative were a bit higher this might be more useful. Don't forget Furious Charge, Big Bombs (give the Kopta Rending or Ignores Cover!) which can be used even if it Turbo Boosted!

Way to play a themed list, it looks like you were going for a Blood Axe Kommandos feel because they're the recon Kill Team type of the Orks.

I'm doing something similar. I'm taking Grot Tanks, replacing the Grots with Orks, to make tank-like Warbuggies...an Armoured Krumpany.

So we, the guys who put this Tactica together, want to know the Killer Kill Team Tactics...but we always gimp ourselves for extra challenge.

Deff Koptas were great. I took out 2 Transports in Turn 1 with a Kopta this month, with a Big Shoot with Armourbane. Great maneuverability.

At the moment, I found 2 Deff Koptas to be optimal. At 2 Wounds and Hit & Run, they always survived longer than I thought they would.

liquidjoshi wrote:This is an awesome article. Kill teams has always been one of my favourite game types, so seeing a tactica for it is pretty damn cool

I'd like to see an analysis of Tau, moreover a look into the viability of Farsight Enclaves (Yes, I want to run a full Crisis suit Kill Team )

Cool, let's take a look at that ASAP. I haven't played against Tau, but very interested to see this myself.

**Big Blind Bill**

Nice work guys, a good read.

One point that I found hypocritical, and also disagree with, is where you state that attack bikes are "UNNECESSARY" yet had a specific section highlighting the advantages of the heavy bolter in Kill Teams.

Personally I've found the attack bike to be a great warlord choice when running a SM bike list in killteams. It has the firepower to potentially rack up many kills over the course of the game, and therefore receive a greater modifier on the warlord upgrades after the battle.

Statistically it doubles the durability of a normal biker, this is important if it is your warlord. it also has the range to keep it out of trouble if you need to deny those VP's whilst still laying down some fire.

Finally for an attack bike warlord I would certainly recommend the 'shrouded' USR.
This + jink + Whitescar USR gives a 2+ Cover save. A T5 2W 2+ Save warlord and specialist is a good to deny the opposition those points.

Just my thoughts.

**Dez**

I think it's hilarious about the Grot Tanks, that's exactly what I was going to try next!

That White Scars Attack Bike sounds nasty.

**Dakkamite**

Kind of comes across as all theory a little bit. Alot of what I read in the Ork tactica about whats good in the full size game, or whats bad for whatever reason, is kinda... really off, and some of the rules, such as warbikers or deffkoptas caring about jink, are incorrect.

Your sample Ork boyz list is illegal. 3 special weapons requires 30 boyz but you have 26, and you can't mix and match shoota and slugga in the same unit!

Its still a good read, but yeah it could do with a few tweaks

**KommissarKiln**

Can't wait t see the Guard tactics and lists. Also, what's with Necrons? Do they get RP if they're broken up into 1-man squads?

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Thanks for your feedback, guys.

Big Blind Bill wrote:Nice work guys, a good read.

One point that I found hypocritical, and also disagree with, is where you state that attack bikes are "UNNECESSARY" yet had a specific section highlighting the advantages of the heavy bolter in Kill Teams.

Personally I've found the attack bike to be a great warlord choice when running a SM bike list in killteams. It has the firepower to potentially rack up many kills over the course of the game, and therefore receive a greater modifier on the warlord upgrades after the battle.

Statistically it doubles the durability of a normal biker, this is important if it is your warlord. it also has the range to keep it out of trouble if you need to deny those VP's whilst still laying down some fire.

Finally for an attack bike warlord I would certainly recommend the 'shrouded' USR.
This + jink + Whitescar USR gives a 2+ Cover save. A T5 2W 2+ Save warlord and specialist is a good to deny the opposition those points.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I was wondering about this, too. I'll discuss this entry with the reviewers, but I think the problem was the points cost.

I'm going to give this 2 days for the contributor of this section to get back to me. He was very pleased with the new Codex, I'm curious why this was rated poorly, too.

Dakkamite wrote:Kind of comes across as all theory a little bit. Alot of what I read in the Ork tactica about whats good in the full size game, or whats bad for whatever reason, is kinda... really off, and some of the rules, such as warbikers or deffkoptas caring about jink, are incorrect.

Your sample Ork boyz list is illegal. 3 special weapons requires 30 boyz but you have 26, and you can't mix and match shoota and slugga in the same unit!

Thank you for glancing over our work and commenting. Our group actually play quick games for each entry. The small-scale of Kill Team lets us do this fast.

(To the amusement of my FLGS, I now have a bunch of models dubbed the Red Marines because I've used them as different Chapters to try Chapter Tactics.)

I'm the one consolidating everyone's test runs, and I'm not the expert on every army, so it is very possible I made a mistake due to the volume of the guide.

Dakkamite wrote:really off, and some of the rules, such as warbikers or deffkoptas caring about jink, are incorrect.

Thank you, upon receiving your feedback, I immediately returned to the article to correct, but I'm not sure what you found incorrect. So far I've not changed this at all:

Ork Bikerz - Take an Ork, make him go faster, make him tougher, add in a better saving throw, give him much better Shoota, then let him keep his Slugga & Choppa. That's what you have with an Ork Biker. Sure, they're more expensive, but they're certainly worth the cost. Better yet, in a Kill Team game, they can be scoring units and claim the objective in the final turns of a game. Their Dakkagunz make good use of the USRs, so they can be good search & destroy units. They're bad to the bone and good for your Kill Team. Just be careful, their bumped up T5 is still vulnerable to Fleshbane Specialists.

I was going to add their 4+ save is a Cover Save (Exhaust Cloud) and can be negated with Ignore Cover Specialists. Far as I can tell, I didn't mention anything about Jink here.

As for Deffkoptas, I mentioned Jink because they're Jetbikes. They benefit from Jink saves, which they'll use when they're targeted with Heavy Weapons that penetrate their 4+.

I'm afraid I cannot find exactly where you have a contention with these entries.

Dakkamite wrote:Your sample Ork boyz list is illegal. 3 special weapons requires 30 boyz but you have 26, and you can't mix and match shoota and slugga in the same unit!

I found this interesting. I have copied and pasted this whole section, without editing any of the wording, only formatting to highlight some issues.

Dakka Boyz
• 18 Boyz w/ Shootas
• 1 Boy w/ Big Shoota (Specialist: Ignore Cover)
• 1 Boy w/ Big Shoota (Specialist: Armourbane)

Choppy Boyz
• 8 Boyz w/ Sluggas & Choppas
• 1 Boy w/ Rokkit Launcha (Specialist: Twin-Linked)
• 1 Boy w/ Slugga & Choppa (Leader)

Total Points Cost: 200
Total Model Count: 30

This sample Kill Team is not just for Ork players to see, but for others who have a "know your enemy" approach to strategy. This is the simplest horde strategy, so obvious that it is often overlooked by anyone who doesn't field Orks normally. It's so basic that to other players it may seem like cheating, but whereas they may see 200 points and think "what's the best strategic unit I can bring", an Ork player sees those same 200 points and think "huh...that's just a regular mob."

At the same time, we are covering the bases with anti-sniper and anti-tank, specifically with its Big Shootas and Rokkit Launchas Specialists. The Ignore Cover Big Shoota Specialist is...a generalist, he's got a decent change against any target. The Armourbane Specialist is anti-tank, but is still effective against infantry. The Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha is obviously anti-tank, but is also good against anti-Marine-equivalents. You may be surprised why I didn't put Armourbane on the Rokkit Launcha, but the fact is it doesn't need it due to how Kill Team only allows light vehicles, whereas giving it to the Big Shoota now gives you a contingency. This is one of the nuances in Kill Team, where we found spreading abilities so that there's no single obvious target, where Specialists can cover for each other in case one is Wounded, is the successful strategy. And whereas other Heavy Weapon models may need to get Relentless, all these Ork weapons are Assault, making them efficient.

Those Specialists will probably be picked off, but by the time, either they already fulfilled their anti-sniper and anti-tank missions, or they bought enough time for the Boyz to get into range to finish stragglers off. We're also making a "Blood Axe Leader", a cheap model just to hide away to deny Victory Points, hehe. Also note the deal structure, we're using the 2 Troop Slots in Kill Team to have both Shootas (better for the early game) and Sluggas & Choppas (better for the endgame).

This Kill Team's simplicity isn't due to a lack of strategy; its simplicity IS the strategy. Instead of single mission critical models, we've put in so much redundancy you'll be able to adapt on the battlefield.

I have 30 Boyz. I have them taken from 2 Troop Slots, using the FOC deliberately to mix a squad of 20 and a squad of 10. That was the purpose of the exercise.

But thank you for your feedback anyway.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KommissarKiln wrote:
Can't wait t see the Guard tactics and lists. Also, what's with Necrons? Do they get RP if they're broken up into 1-man squads?

Inside the Imperial Guard, which I was working on before having to spend time reply to the above, hides the single most devastating unit in Kill Team.

I like what they did with Necrons. They keep RP by simply saying it's treated as the Ever Living rule, which is how you treat Independent Characters.

**Toban**

May someone post the rules pack pls?

I can't find any download link from the GW site anymore..

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Toban wrote:
May someone post the rules pack pls?

I can't find any download link from the GW site anymore..

No problem, brother. Here's the link, that still works for me, also used in the Article:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=3500001&aId=26200004a

Here's the link direct to the PDF file, a complete pack, bundled with what used to be Errata:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3460063a_Kill_Team_Rules_Pack_2013.4.pdf

If those don't work for you, let me know.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've reached the word/character count maximum for this Article. I was about to post the Imperial Guard unit reviews for Kill Team.

I'm going to figure out what's the best way to present this, like a general Kill Team Tactica, then Imperium Units, then Xenos, etc.

**BrookM**

Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:
Inside the Imperial Guard, which I was working on before having to spend time reply to the above, hides the single most devastating unit in Kill Team.

Will be interesting to hear which unit gets that honour.

**Toban**

Thank you for the this-time-working link.

Just an idea.. what about new SOBs?

**VanHallan**

This is awesome! I've been trying to build 500 point lists to start playing with my dad, just to introduce him to the game and have something fun to do when we arent watching sports...

I just feel that 40k has soooo many rules and things to consider i'd been discouraged. This killteam game is perfect and i can get the models painted up SO much faster. Really great article looking forward to updates!

**Toban**

Kommissar Waaaghrick I have to thank you for this wonderful article.

Waiting for new adds just let me tell you that this have already motivated me and a lot of my friends.

This eve we're gonna try out a little campaing of 4 Teams.

Just becasuse I do have the painted minis I will try this little list:

Iron Hands CT
TR - 6x Tacticals - Combi-grav - 4x Boltguns - HB (ignore Cover). 104
FA - 5x Assault Marines - 2x Flamers (Fleshbane / Shred) - 2x bp/cs - Serg. as Leader - no JP - Rhino. 95

Just not sure yet if making my Ass. Serg. as the Leader or eventually have the Tactical Serg armed with the Combi-grav instead.

It all depends on how I will manage to roll on the Leader's Upgrades.

What do you advice me?

**Kommissar Waaaghrick**

Hi guys, let me get back to you on a few things.

I'm sorry in particular that this was a late reply, I just missed it yesterday:

Toban wrote:
Kommissar Waaaghrick I have to thank you for this wonderful article.

Waiting for new adds just let me tell you that this have already motivated me and a lot of my friends.

This eve we're gonna try out a little campaing of 4 Teams.

Just becasuse I do have the painted minis I will try this little list:

Iron Hands CT
TR - 6x Tacticals - Combi-grav - 4x Boltguns - HB (ignore Cover). 104
FA - 5x Assault Marines - 2x Flamers (Fleshbane / Shred) - 2x bp/cs - Serg. as Leader - no JP - Rhino. 95

Just not sure yet if making my Ass. Serg. as the Leader or eventually have the Tactical Serg armed with the Combi-grav instead.

It all depends on how I will manage to roll on the Leader's Upgrades.

What do you advice me?

I think I really like this list. I know I'm late and couldn't help you, but how did it do please?

Because it's a good list IMHO. I don't think my buddies saw this yet, but I bet they mostly agree.

Iron Hands bionics with lots of guys and IWND Rhino, it's simple but pretty effective in our games.

You have all bases covered. With your Assault, you can get in close and use Krak Grenades.

Leaders generally die in our games unless we totally hide them, but I like the boldness of an Assault Leader.

The biggest challenge is, of course, what are your friends playing? Your list is good, but what do they got?

**Toban**

Hey Komm, nice to read you back.

It's gone pretty well in fact, I ended 2nd.

1st game vs Eldars, 12 Guardian Defenders with a ML HWPlatform and 5 Rangers.
Even if starting second and carefully moving my Rhino he actually wrecked it pretty effortless. However, with great pleasure for me, 2 extremely effective Flamers and the lovely Ignoring Cover HB, helped me downing 11 mesh armor in 2 turns.
He then unluckly lost o his first LD test.
On my Leader I rolled a almost useless 10 for a +1 I.

2 game vs the Sternguards + Bikers list you talked about in the article. In ALL honesty my friend wasn't particulary completely conscious after a couple of beers+whisky weird mix.. However, I played extremely conservative hiding most of my models and sending the Rhino with only the Combi-grav inside witch killed brutally his leader.
i had a little hard moment trying to kill the bikes however that even vs 2 uber Flamers and the HB resisted proudly for 2 turns.
Once again I finally won on a failed LD test.
This time rolling a wonderfull 4 on the Leader upgrades

Then what? The 4st mate came with a green Skink list that I must admit worked extremely well.

He had:
5x Lootas (tank hunter and shred).
10x shoota boyz
8x slugga/choppa boyz
a slugga/choppa leader that never ever came out of his angle
1 big shoota (fleshbane).
He gived the Leader 1W and 1I during the precious matches.

This time he almost tablet me in 3 turns. Even if I been lucky with my break tests he completely how ed me once in melee.

Is been a very interesting experience and an extremely funny stressless WH40K digression. I can't honesty tell you that everything had been played in a competitive way but we clearly had the feeling of a lot of things that could work batter and batter, elevating the play Level.

Conclusions?
- Numbers, the more models the more chances.
- Leader leadership. Even the "perfect" list could to back Home on a poor failed 2D6 roll.
- flexibility, weapons and skills combo could really transform a random models ensemble in a wonderfully effective kill team.

**Toban**

Have you already considered Space Wolves lists?

Here just one idea..

TR - 10 GH - Free Flamer (Fleshbane) - Free Plasmagun (Ignore Cover). 150
FA - TWC Leader (Shred). 50

Of course not over numbered and with the LD8 limit but looking about the Leader the evolution possibility are scaring ...

We're planning a little custom event during christmas days. One all night long tournament of 10/12 games depending on players. Special rule, all the upgrades on the Leader will be assigned normally by the player until the hall on the tournament and then dropped one by one during following matches by the Opponent

.

We'll see

**Insane Smile**

Any idea when the imperial guard will be done bacause that has me very excited.