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"-Finally, there were a lot of Eldar players who already owned several Wave Serpents from 5th edition and in a weird turn of events, this codex really made it easier for a lot of players to instantly play a competitive Eldar army. "

This is why GW makes no sense to me. They don't even scheme to sell a new model. It's just "this thing is randomly overpowered".

 easysauce wrote:
mhhmmm keep on complaining then,

those are tactics I actually use, to kill the WS i have played in tournies, if you want to just go "BUT THAT WONT WORK" i cannot help you....

and yes 5 marines will not be wiped out by one WS, and will get the krak grenade in assault, or just throw one...


I love how I tell people how I am actually beating WS spam.. then they tell me how the tactics I use that work, wont work, cause you know, the internets

because there is no way to tell if the person playing it is any good.

So 1 Wave serpent won't kill 5 marines...it will kill about 3 on average. And with mobility that gives it enough time to avoid assault and kill 5. Or another serpent will help, or you know the squad inside the serpent will jump out and help....

Great that those things are working for you, and like I said I can design an army to beat serpents....if I throw 100 BA assault marines on the table I have a decent shot at it....but I lose horribly to some other lists....

Without seeing your full list it is hard to say but you say interceptors (picking that one example) at most you have 30 of them which is 780 points of your list before you add troops, and will take a minimum of 2 turns to be able to Krak grenade (other than throwing one) at a serpent. Against a good player that thrown grenade will never hit rear armor so it won't really matter much.

But lets assume 2 turns. Turn 1 unless you are out of LOS my 6 serpents kill 18 Interceptors, turn 2 I kill the rest with what I have left which is probably 4 or so serpents + infantry. Or Wraithknights or Seer council....

 Vaktathi wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
mhhmmm keep on complaining then,

those are tactics I actually use, to kill the WS i have played in tournies, if you want to just go "BUT THAT WONT WORK" i cannot help you....

and yes 5 marines will not be wiped out by one WS, and will get the krak grenade in assault, or just throw one...


I love how I tell people how I am actually beating WS spam.. then they tell me how the tactics I use that work, wont work, cause you know, the internets

Mostly because the stuff you're tossing about is kinda silly. When you start talking about Lascannon HWS's, the least effective, least cost effective, and easiest killed heavy weapons unit in the game, and a unit which the Wave Serpent is particularly suited to dealing with due to it's abundance of S6+ multishot weaponry and ignores cover capabilities, people are going to have a hard time taking you seriously.

Well it is also kind of silly to bring up the whole ignores cover aspect of the Serpent Shield when the gun in AP-. Which I understand is important when talking about vehicles, but it seemed to me the argument was being made about how the guys infantry couldn't get into range.

It does not matter much for marines, but for IG, Orks, etc it absolutely matters.

Beyond that his posts read to me

"I'm better than most players in my area so I win"

Which is not helpful to the community at large.

IG already have a 5+ save, so assuming normal cover (eg area terrain or other units) they will still get a 5+ save against all Wave Serpent shooting.

Orks and Nids on the other hand...

Martel732 wrote:
"-Finally, there were a lot of Eldar players who already owned several Wave Serpents from 5th edition and in a weird turn of events, this codex really made it easier for a lot of players to instantly play a competitive Eldar army. "

This is why GW makes no sense to me. They don't even scheme to sell a new model. It's just "this thing is randomly overpowered".

Maybe GW aren't the evil mad scientist schemers the net makes them out to be? I understand your pain though and don't mean to try and invalidate your argument about "what's an assault army to do?".

But I am being perfectly sincere about my terrain comments. If you truely think that MAJOR advantages and disadvantages aren't decide during the board set-up and objective placement phase of the game you are handicapping the game in my favor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
It does not matter much for marines, but for IG, Orks, etc it absolutely matters.

Beyond that his posts read to me

"I'm better than most players in my area so I win"

Which is not helpful to the community at large.

Are you talking about me? If I came off that way I apologize. I was just bringing up what a fellow BA player does in our group, and he wins more than he loses. But at the same time our area doesn't have a lot of WAAC gamers. There are some, but not many.

x13rads wrote:


Well it is also kind of silly to bring up the whole ignores cover aspect of the Serpent Shield when the gun in AP-. Which I understand is important when talking about vehicles, but it seemed to me the argument was being made about how the guys infantry couldn't get into range.

It's important when your infantry aren't Space Marines

 Happyjew wrote:
IG already have a 5+ save, so assuming normal cover (eg area terrain or other units) they will still get a 5+ save against all Wave Serpent shooting.

Unless you're in ruins, hiding behind an Aegis line, etc. If you are taking HWS's, your probably putting them in your best cover.

 Vaktathi wrote:

x13rads wrote:


Well it is also kind of silly to bring up the whole ignores cover aspect of the Serpent Shield when the gun in AP-. Which I understand is important when talking about vehicles, but it seemed to me the argument was being made about how the guys infantry couldn't get into range.

It's important when your infantry aren't Space Marines

 Happyjew wrote:
IG already have a 5+ save, so assuming normal cover (eg area terrain or other units) they will still get a 5+ save against all Wave Serpent shooting.

Unless you're in ruins, hiding behind an Aegis line, etc. If you are taking HWS's, your probably putting them in your best cover.

Again I was thinking in terms of Blood Angels. Didn't mean to derail the thread into a "You should try this,this,and this" argument. As I said in my first post in this thread I agree WSs could be nerfed and I wouldn't mind. The thread I think was made to give people a chance to vent, so vent away.

 Happyjew wrote:
IG already have a 5+ save, so assuming normal cover (eg area terrain or other units) they will still get a 5+ save against all Wave Serpent shooting.

Orks and Nids on the other hand...

exactly... its mostly ap - shooting, so armour for marines, will make a 5 man interceptor swuad lose 2 guys, not 3 as someone else (not you) said. nids and orks, yeah they get the bad end of the stick, but they should also have the #'s where it really doesnt matter.

so what if the WS can move 12"? thats slower then most jump infantry with assault factored in, not to mention deep strike... why is it 100% certain that the WS will be able to flank YOU, but 0% likely that you can flank the WS? you really dont have anything that moves 12" in your army? you really dont have anything area denial so that when the WS turns to shoot your side, the WS is also exposed? thats lack of tactical positioning, and mobility.

Mobility is the cornerstone of good tactics, and the people I see at tournies whining about WS and most things in general, the #1 thing I see wrong with their armies is that they are one big immobile TURTLE.


and its very easy to hide interceptors first turn, and they are FASTER then the WS... they move 12, or 30", and get to assault... so think about that for a second before you cry out "OMG WS WILL JUST KITE YOUR INTERCEPTORS" after i just won a 50+ person tournament playing nothing but serpant, tau, and hell drake spam... I kited the tau and eldar, not the other way around.


against guard, you still get armour... and you should have 3+ of everything as guard because you know 1-2 will get shot...


maybe I am just used to people parking av12-14 vehicles behind cover, and am not "OMG A VEHICLE WITH A 4/3+ cover" because its NOT NEW if your army cannot deal with cover/saves either through weight of fire, or special rules, you need to adjust your army, because cover is not restricted to eldar... a lemen russ in a ruin is more durable, yet I dont hear "RAWRRRRR IG ARE OP"

neither is someone forcing my MEQ's or GEQ's to take 10+ or 20+saves... I am totally used to haveing a veritable pant load of saves to make... guess what, my opponent ALSO has a huge weight of fire to counter...

but when I actually feild things like interceptors, or IG HWTeams, and they WORK WELL< dont tell me they do not... guard can ignore the cover most of the time with orders, if they are shooting the sheild, they dont downgrade to glances, so any of those pen's will take likely stop that WS shooting if it isnt immobile/weap destroy or wrecked... not to mention the WS will likely only have range with the sheild.

they are certainly good at causing wounds, but they are not some roflstomp unbeatable unit.. they are just pushing the meta in a new direction, and people need to adapt.

The turn before my BA ASM hit the Eldar lines one game, they forced 54 saves and had 7 rends on top of that.

GW makes you pay for the mobility usually, which reduced the wounds the WS need to inflict to cripple you.

BA are far too overcosted to ever have a hope of throwing competitive weight of fire. I'm not really feeling the weight of fire from the new marine codex, either. Imperial weapon pricing is whack. Look at the assault cannon. Totally overcosted for a 24" weapon.

Martel732 wrote:
The turn before my BA ASM hit the Eldar lines one game, they forced 54 saves and had 7 rends on top of that.

GW makes you pay for the mobility usually, which reduced the wounds the WS need to inflict to cripple you.

BA are far too overcosted to ever have a hope of throwing competitive weight of fire. I'm not really feeling the weight of fire from the new marine codex, either. Imperial weapon pricing is whack. Look at the assault cannon. Totally overcosted for a 24" weapon.

Well of you go with the GW Evil Masterming crowd, the new marine codex was obviously built to sell more bikes and piss off Ravenwing players

White Sars being the new Black

 easysauce wrote:


so what if the WS can move 12"? thats slower then most jump infantry with assault factored in, not to mention deep strike... why is it 100% certain that the WS will be able to flank YOU, but 0% likely that you can flank the WS?

it can move 12" and still fire to full effect, in case it was forgotten, the Wave Serpent is a fast skimmer so can move up to 42".

Mobility is the cornerstone of good tactics, and the people I see at tournies whining about WS and most things in general, the #1 thing I see wrong with their armies is that they are one big immobile TURTLE.

And guess what, we have several armies which, by design, operate that way without much recourse.

and its very easy to hide interceptors first turn, and they are FASTER then the WS... they move 12, or 30", and get to assault... so think about that for a second before you cry out "OMG WS WILL JUST KITE YOUR INTERCEPTORS"

Again, they aren't just stuck moving 12", and it's not hard to kill of 5 man squads of interceptors if they can be seen at all.

after i just won a 50+ person tournament playing nothing but serpant, tau, and hell drake spam... I kited the tau and eldar, not the other way around.

what event was this? I'd postulate your Tau and Eldar opponents weren't very capable in that case.

against guard, you still get armour...

Hooray 5+...oh wait, it's 5+.

and you should have 3+ of everything as guard because you know 1-2 will get shot...

And if we're talking HWS's, it's exceedingly easy to remove those very quickly with Wave Serpent. Assuming 4.5 hits (average of D6+1) just from the shield cannon (not counting anything else or Twinlinking from scatterlasers), 4 wounds, lets be generous and say 2 save, you've just lost two of three heavy weapons and are not testing Ld7 to not run away.

Nobody is saying that wave serpents are unbeatable, just way too capable for the role they fill and the way they are priced leading to notable balance issue.

 Vaktathi wrote:

after i just won a 50+ person tournament playing nothing but serpant, tau, and hell drake spam... I kited the tau and eldar, not the other way around.

what event was this? I'd postulate your Tau and Eldar opponents weren't very capable in that case.

oh so NOW it takes skill to win with what you are arguing is OP WS "I auto win" spam?


id postulate that since you seem to keep getting your butt handed to you by WS spam that anyone who says "I have effectlively found many counters, in my armies, and others, to WS spam" must be full of it it your books,

does this mean they are 100% effective counters? no ofc not, this is a game of dice, but WS are not 100% either... they are just another unit, of many, that forces saves like a mofo,

assuming they roll well for sheild shots OFC,
and assuming they are playing somethign without a decent armour save.
and assuming that person doesnt have any solution to av12 with a cover save...
and assuming the WS goes first...
and assuming their opponent doesnt have the mobility to outflank or engage in CC,
and assuming you dont have enough troops to deal with a turn or two of being blasted
then yes it is VERY hard to deal with them,

but if your army has nothing with any of those things, you have made a very weak list, as every single codex, aside from NIDs' and ORKs actually has a lot of these counters.

I'd postulate that this tournament you've won doesn't actually exist.

What tournament was this? Who were the big name players there?

The problem with a MEQ army (in particular a Jump-MEQ army) versus Wave Serpents isn't a lack of terrain on the board, but more of the terrain type. Most of the terrain at my local store aren't giant, solid bricks of anti-LoS. The folks there buy/make all varieties of ruins, forests, trenches, sandbags, rivers, lakes, etc. These are usually what I see being sold--heck even my own table at home is a clutter of ruins. The only particularly common LoS blocking terrain I regularly see are hills (and the occasional building.

In my experience hills tend to be kinda...dinky. Maybe it's different everywhere else, but here it's hard to cram your army behind all the hills (and behind the building,,,putting them inside isn't conducive to assault marine tactics, either). The Wave Serpents can easily zoom around with their speed and get shots off on the marines. We like cluttered boards, though. So there's still going to be terrain in the way--it's all good, right?

Unfortunately, against the Serpent's shooting (assuming Laser/Shield loadout) those varieties of ruins, forests, trenches, sandbags, rivers, lakes, etc. do not benefit the marines at all. Even 3+ cover from an Aegis line (if there's a neutral one in the middle of board for some reason) doesn't help--they already get their 3+ armour save. It'll help them against AP3 and the like, but not the sheer weight of fire they can put out. Sure, there's the argument 'use more X terrain type,' but I'm pretty sure that an Eldar player would call cheese if a jump-MEQ player insisted on littering the board with tall hills. Short of tailoring the entire board against Eldar/in favour of the jumpers (which I think is a pretty disdainful approach), Eldar are going to have an immense advantage against against assault marines.


...

On another note: Lascannon HWS are a terrible matchup against a Wave Serpent. Even if they're behind an Aegis line the skimmer is liable to wipe them in a single bout of shooting...and if they're behind LoS-blocking crap...well, they're not doing their job. The weapons can certainly threaten Wave Serpents, but not efficiently so--Vendettas, some Russ variant or another, Chimeltas, even sneak scout sentinels can do the job much more efficiently.

As an afterthought I'd like to add that BA don't get a 30" movement, nor do any non-Interceptor jump infantry that I can think of. It's not really helpful to tell a BA player 'Interceptors can do X against serpents'.

x13rads wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
It does not matter much for marines, but for IG, Orks, etc it absolutely matters.

Beyond that his posts read to me

"I'm better than most players in my area so I win"

Which is not helpful to the community at large.

Are you talking about me? If I came off that way I apologize. I was just bringing up what a fellow BA player does in our group, and he wins more than he loses. But at the same time our area doesn't have a lot of WAAC gamers. There are some, but not many.

No not talking about you but about easy sauce who apparently beats WS spam with 5 interceptors all the time.


Ummm...WS are faster than interceptors short of the turn they shunt (12" + assault < 12" + flat out if needed, and yes then I am not shooting with that serpent for a turn, and then it has its shields up and 3+ cover.....and statistically they kill 2.84(not including any possible rends from the shuriken cannon) Marines each....so much closer to 3 than 2. I'm certainly not saying you won't kill any but if the Serpent Player is good he has other answers to your interceptors.

I play a highly mobile army and can beat serpent spam but that does not make it an easy army to deal with, or make the Serpent not rediculously powerful for its points. So you won a 50+ man tournament (where what event what results), eldar have now won or placed highly in multiple 50+ to 100+ player events....

As for Leman russess, sure they are more durable in cover so is a nurgle Soul Grinder, but they don't put out near the amount of damage, and are much slower.

How many IG weapons teams do you run.... as each serpent should litterally kill a 3 man HWT each round so if those are threat #1, then the serpents more or less kill 6 of them each turn.

Again sure they are not unbeatable...but again it sounds far more like you being far better than your opponents than it does about a great strategy for any player to bring against Serpents.

Also what are your interceptors Kiting Serpents with exactly? At 130 points (the cost you quoted) they cannot hurt the serpents with shooting.

 easysauce wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

after i just won a 50+ person tournament playing nothing but serpant, tau, and hell drake spam... I kited the tau and eldar, not the other way around.

what event was this? I'd postulate your Tau and Eldar opponents weren't very capable in that case.

oh so NOW it takes skill to win with what you are arguing is OP WS "I auto win" spam?

I'll re-iterate: what 50 person event did you win? Because quite frankly, I don't believe you. Such events are generally high profile. Which event was this and which army did you roll with?

If you're playing an Imperial army and kiting Eldar around a table, then yes, your opponents were bad. I'm not going to step away from that assertion. By design that army inherently has significantly more speed and mobility between Battle Focus (move shoot run/move run shoot), near army wide Fleet, Fast Skimmers vs tracked tanks, etc.

id postulate that since you seem to keep getting your butt handed to you by WS spam that anyone who says "I have effectlively found many counters, in my armies, and others, to WS spam" must be full of it it your books,

I can't even make sense of this sentence.

does this mean they are 100% effective counters? no ofc not, this is a game of dice, but WS are not 100% either...

I'm not saying they are "100%", what I'm saying is the counters you've posted are not reliable, I'm not alone in that assertion by any means, and in general the Wave Serpents should have an easier time dealing with those counters you proposed than vice versa, Vendetta aside (because it's just as silly, just in a different way).


they are just another unit, of many, that forces saves like a mofo, assuming they roll well for sheild shots OFC, and assuming they are playing somethign without a decent armour save.

@ Vaktathi

Your a bit of on your movement distances there.

Fast Skimmers can move 12" and Fire 2 of their weapons at full BS(WSs typically have 3 weapons when you count the SS), the other weapons fire as snap shots

&

Fast skimmers can Turbo-Boost 18"(can't shoot if they do) for a total of 30" move Max.

Now Eldar Jetbikes can move a total of 48" in a turn, but if someone you have been playing against has been moving their Serpents around like that they are mistaken.

Or the WS can move 12" and leave their shields up. A good choice until the warp spiders have executed a good number of enemy heavy weapons.

x13rads wrote:
@ Vaktathi

Your a bit of on your movement distances there.

Fast Skimmers can move 12" and Fire 2 of their weapons at full BS(WSs typically have 3 weapons when you count the SS), the other weapons fire as snap shots

I was primarily just concerned with the turret+shield, not counting the underslung weapon, most people don't seem to buy the cannonand the catapult has a very short range whereas the turret and shield can generally shoot across the board :p

Fast skimmers can Turbo-Boost 18"(can't shoot if they do) for a total of 30" move Max.

You are in fact correct, my bad, was getting them mixed up with the jetbikes Still though, definitely can move farther than 12" if they want.

The cannon actually helps put it over the top for when things like ASM DO get close.

@ Likan Wolfsheim

An average board is gonna have 12 pieces of Terrain, 6 of them you are gonna put out. No one complains where I live when people bring their own terrain to the shop. As long as you and your opponent are both aloud to pick from the terrain you bring there shouldn't be an issue.

Heck I LOVE big line of sight blocking terrain and have several Pegasus Hobbies buildings all with at least one side of the ruin completely blocking line of sight on the bottom and sometimes 2nd level. The Imperial Sector buildings GW pus out has several ways where you can construct the building to block line of sight.

My main point is there are cool ways out there to make LOS blocking Terrain, and as long as your not an arse when showing up to the FLGS, most people are reseptive(sp?) to new cool terrain to play with.

easysauce said---oh so NOW it takes skill to win with what you are arguing is OP WS "I auto win" spam?

 Vaktathi wrote:

I'll re-iterate: what 50 person event did you win? Because quite frankly, I don't believe you. Such events are generally high profile. Which event ant which army did you roll with?

easysauce said--
id postulate that since you seem to keep getting your butt handed to you by WS spam that anyone who says "I have effectlively found many counters, in my armies, and others, to WS spam" must be full of it it your books,

I can't even make sense of this sentence.

you cant make sense of english, then ill dumb it down for you...
the above basically translates into:

my theory is that you call anyone who says they can deal with WS spam a liar,

which you have done as I have dealt with WS spam, and now you and someone above you just go "YOU LIE< that never happened"


I give strats that work for me, you say "youre a liar, nothing works" and around we go! what a great debate! what manners!

why bother reading this thread if you are just going to ignore advice and dump on people who claim they can counter WS spam?

how about instead of being a rude person who calls people liars, simply for trying to tell people about tactics that WORK, instead of endlessly complaining about how there are no counters...

besides that...
its CANADA you dont care about our players names or our competitions... our biggest tournies, will be full of players just as good as in the us or UK.

FYI i took 1500pts of GK's to a tourny called onslaught, and yes it is our provinces 2nd biggest, and no, its not a nova or adepticon, so you will likely only confirm it exists on FB or google or something, not sure you can seee all the names due to privacy issues.

next I expect to hear" oh well thats not a real tournament, cause canadas not a real country" and so on...

It's not that nothing works. It's what you are claiming works doesn't work.

Bringing what DOES work against WS spam opens you list up to all kinds of other bad matchups. It's a head you lose, tails the other guy wins situation.

 Vaktathi wrote:
You are in fact correct, my bad, was getting them mixed up with the jetbikes Still though, definitely can move farther than 12" if they want.

yes, but they cannot move farther then 12" and fire... you're ignoring that moving past 12" means they are not shooting, so if you have your OWN units that move 12, yes you can outmanuver them, you either force them to move 12"+ and NOT shoot, or move 12" and shoot, but be open to assault/flanking...

part of dealing with WS's is just keeping them from firing, either through moving threats close to them, or inflicing a penetrating hit (they shot their sheilds remember)

they are just another av12 vehicle with a cover save, and a large amount of dakka.


obviously no one here wants to hear anti WS tactics, they just want to complain abouthow nothing works outside of tailoring lists, which will then fail against every other army out there.

that combined with the sheer rudness, and im out, have fun complaining everyone

"they are just another av12 vehicle with a cover save, and a large amount of dakka. "

That goes in the TROOP slot. Minor detail, there.

Martel732 wrote:
"they are just another av12 vehicle with a cover save, and a large amount of dakka. "

That goes in the TROOP slot. Minor detail, there.

Which has to do with what?

BA and DW can have Land Raiders as Troop transports.

Except Land Raiders suck compared to WS.

If the wave serpent were heavy support, it wouldn't be nearly such an issue.

On a lighter note, do you think the OP got his answer ?

 easysauce wrote:

easysauce said---oh so NOW it takes skill to win with what you are arguing is OP WS "I auto win" spam?

 Vaktathi wrote:

I'll re-iterate: what 50 person event did you win? Because quite frankly, I don't believe you. Such events are generally high profile. Which event ant which army did you roll with?

easysauce said--
id postulate that since you seem to keep getting your butt handed to you by WS spam that anyone who says "I have effectlively found many counters, in my armies, and others, to WS spam" must be full of it it your books,

I can't even make sense of this sentence.

you cant make sense of english, then ill dumb it down for you...
the above basically translates into:

my theory is that you call anyone who says they can deal with WS spam a liar,

which you have done as I have dealt with WS spam, and now you and someone above you just go "YOU LIE< that never happened"


I give strats that work for me, you say "youre a liar, nothing works" and around we go! what a great debate! what manners!

why bother reading this thread if you are just going to ignore advice and dump on people who claim they can counter WS spam?

how about instead of being a rude person who calls people liars, simply for trying to tell people about tactics that WORK, instead of endlessly complaining about how there are no counters...

besides that...
its CANADA you dont care about our players names or our competitions... our biggest tournies, will be full of players just as good as in the us or UK.

FYI i took 1500pts of GK's to a tourny called onslaught, and yes it is our provinces 2nd biggest, and no, its not a nova or adepticon, so you will likely only confirm it exists on FB or google or something, not sure you can seee all the names due to privacy issues.

next I expect to hear" oh well thats not a real tournament, cause canadas not a real country" and so on...

You don't seem to get it...if you won your tournament, which I am not about to call into question, then you were playing some substandard players.

IG HW teams are NOT a good counter to WSs by any means. They get ID by a single shot, so a group of three will statistically be wiped every turn by EACH WS. If the person playing WSs is running say, JUST, 5 then you are removing 5 HW teams a turn generally. MAYBE some survive with their Lascannon and get some shots off. They STILL have a 4+ cover in the open if they moved, if they are in cover it is even better. IG HW teams are NOT a good counter.

Jump Infantry with Krak grenades...I can't even begin to understand how you think this is a good counter. 12" a turn means that any WS you go after will just turbo away when you get near charge ranged all the while you have a likely 4-5 other WSs shooting at the most obvious threat to them which is the Jump Infantry. Say you are running three squads of 10 Interceptors as you are claiming to be so great at WS killing. Say the opponent is going to field 5 WSs that you have to deal with. That is 20 S6 shots and 5D6+5 S7 shots, so you are statistically taking 10 S6 shots and 13 S7 shots. All of those shots are wounding on anything buts so you are going to be taking say...19 wounds, failing a third of those saves means 6 wounds. You are down to 24 Interceptors. Next turn you will be taking another 6, putting you at 18. At this point you MIGHT be able to get a charge off, say you are lucky and get one charge off, which btw means you will be taking overwatch which I am not going to do the math on but just keep it in mind. Say it is a squad of 6 who made it across to charge, they charge using krak grenades. 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 glances/pens. You MIGHT kill a single WS if you get a pen and an explosion. Congrats, you have 4 more to deal with that have more than likely moved well out of charge distance by the time you get that one kill.

ALL of that is also ignoring that they are carrying a squad inside and what ever else the eldar player has brought to play. I know that the GK player also has more units than just 780 points of Interceptors but if all of those interceptors are dedicated to chasing WS around that is effectively 780 points to kill TRANSPORTS. Let me reiterate that. TRANSPORTS. Something that is holding a squad that, more than likely, has shuriken weapons which will eat those Interceptors up as soon as they crack open the WS.