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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

Ok so how does going to ground with marines work? When do they get up if they are getting Shot at? And if devastators go to ground do they snapfire when they get up?




The bottom questions have been answeared but I think per forum rules I can't start too many threads not sure so I just edited tittle and question

So this came up twice on two different accasions on a game today

First: a DA darkshroud was behind an aegis def line. If he gets shot does he get a 3+ for the line or a 2+ for the line plus having moved

Number two: DA ravenwing knights turbo boosted into a forest do the get 3+ jink (skilled rider) or 2+ for jink and area terrain.

To me they get the 2+ but want to see if I'm wrong

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 14:21:51


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Jink provides a cover save. It does not modify cover saves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 02:43:28


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Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

The Darkshroud almost certainly gets nothing but movement cover saves for the defense line, unless the line was very tall, the Darkshroud flight stand very short, or hills were involved. Remember, it's True Line of Sight, so unless the Defense line is actually obscuring part of the Dark Shroud it doesn't get anything at all.

Happyjew has two covered. Jink provides a cover save, but does not provide modification to existing cover saves like Stealth or Shrouding do.
   
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





@sangheili: how did you come up with a 2+? Both skilled rider and area terrain are set modifiers.

------------------
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

@ happyjew thanx man I thought they did

@chrysis I see I thought just being behind the line gave you cover. So does that mean vehicles only get a 4+ from being behind it?

@ clivery it's on the OP on how I came up with it
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

sangheili wrote:
@ happyjew thanx man I thought they did

@chrysis I see I thought just being behind the line gave you cover. So does that mean vehicles only get a 4+ from being behind it?

@ clivery it's on the OP on how I came up with it


Depends. If the vehicle is behind it, and the Defense Line covers up 25% or more of the vehicle, then the vehicle will get the cover save the Defense Line grants. If the Defense Line grants a 4+ cover, then this is what the vehicle would get. The distinction I'm trying to make is that simply being on the opposite side of the defense line from the firer isn't enough, the defense line has to actually block line of sight to a greater or lesser extent. As a Dark Shroud is a skimmer, and thus going to be on a flying stand, the defense line isn't going to be tall enough on it's own to actually block LoS to the skimmer and provide a cover save.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

Chrysis wrote:
sangheili wrote:
@ happyjew thanx man I thought they did

@chrysis I see I thought just being behind the line gave you cover. So does that mean vehicles only get a 4+ from being behind it?

@ clivery it's on the OP on how I came up with it


Depends. If the vehicle is behind it, and the Defense Line covers up 25% or more of the vehicle, then the vehicle will get the cover save the Defense Line grants. If the Defense Line grants a 4+ cover, then this is what the vehicle would get. The distinction I'm trying to make is that simply being on the opposite side of the defense line from the firer isn't enough, the defense line has to actually block line of sight to a greater or lesser extent. As a Dark Shroud is a skimmer, and thus going to be on a flying stand, the defense line isn't going to be tall enough on it's own to actually block LoS to the skimmer and provide a cover save.


I see, just trying to get familiar with it just got mine today. So what cover would a razorback and land raider get? Since that is what I'll have there besides marines. And my opponent had chimeras and lemman Russ tanks behind his

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 06:03:25


 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

Again, it depends on the circumstances. If the Razorback is right up against it, and all of the Firer, Razorback and Defense line are on the same elevation it'll be the 4+. Otherwise it's all up in the air.

I recommend you read the section on vehicles and cover (starts on page 74) again, and keep in mind there's nothing special about the Aegis. It's just another piece of terrain.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Well lots of things wrong here. Firstly jink is a cover save not a cover save modifier. Cover saves do not stack. Cover save modifiers do.

The Darkshroud has shrouded, so how you got to a 3+ from behind an Aegis I have no idea. If the Aegis is covering 25% of the darkshroud's facing then it provides a 4+ cover (Aegis always provides a 4+ cover). Shrouded makes this a 2+ cover.

The black knights have 2 cover saves if they turbo boost 1 jink and 1 area terrain. Both start at 5+, the jink is modified by skilled rider to 4+ and turbo boost to 3+. The awards terrain cover save stays at 5+. Thus you will use your 3+ cover unless you are being shot by someone that ignores jink (Dark Reapers for instance) in which case you have your 5+ to fall back on.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

I see guys thanx I thought aegis had special rules since it was a fortification but I get it now just traet it as other piece of terrain. Abd the jink too thought the covers stacked.

So one more question. If I shoot at something that's already in cover what ever it may be(area, fort, ruins) and I shoot at them trough a forest do those saves stack?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 13:15:36


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





sangheili wrote:

So one more question. If I shoot at something that's already on cover what ever it may be(area, fort, ruins) and I shoot at them trough a forest do those saves stack?


No, cover saves never stack.

An Aegis Defence line is a regular piece of terrain. Specifically it is "Battlefield Debris (Defense Lines)". If you look under terrain types there are many different ones e.g. ruins (4+ cover), forests (5+ can be mysterious), area terrain (5+ and gives +2 to cover saves when going to ground + other rules), purpose built fortifications (3+ cover save) and 'battlefield debris, defence lines'

The rules for defense lines (all defense lines not just the aegis) is that it gives a 4+ cover save and if you go to ground behind it you get +2 to your cover save. So going to ground behind that type of terrain gives you a 2+ cover save.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
sangheili wrote:
Ok so how does going to ground with marines work? When do they get up if they are getting Shot at? And if devastators go to ground do they snapfire when they get up?




The bottom questions have been answeared but I think



Going to ground is covered in the brb, it is no different for marines or devastators or greater daemons. Going to ground means you gain a +1 cover save modifier (unless a special rule would give you more e.g. area terrain gives +2 instead when going to ground). This modifier is cumulative with other modifiers so that if yoi are shrouded and go to ground behind a hedge (6+ cover) you would gain a 3+ cover save.

The down side is that you cannot move and can only fire snap shots until the end of your next turn. No special rules like relentless will help you overcome this penalty. In fact the only way to recover is either automatically at the end of your next turn, if you are charged or if you are an imperial guard unit who has successfully received the 'get back in the flight's order (or the tau warlord trait that does the same thing).

In short: look at your opponents wound pool and decide if that bonus to cover save is worth not moving or shooting (effectively) the next turn

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 17:02:20


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



chicagoland

@ wtnind
So if he shoots at me on his turn(lets say bottom of two) my guys won't get back up until my end of turn 3? And they just get up right no morale or nothing?

The reason why I'm so confused over it is because I never go to ground and on the one game I did use that rule my opponent told me it worked like this(I've never done that so I went on what he told me) I go to ground get +1 to my cover but he said that since I was a space marine I was able to get up right away and not snap fire
   
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Dimmamar

If you've never gone to ground, and you are now thinking that it might be a good tactic, you should read the Going to Ground section in the BRB, so that you know how it works.
Look in the index to see what page it's on.

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