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2013/11/11 06:53:25
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Dakka Veteran
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Does the ADL confer a 3+ ro 4+ cover save, and why? I struggle with this one.
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(60) Successful Trades With: coffinofstone (x2), Mike94656, kungfujew, LOS Not Needed, Uriels_Flame (x3), redthirst, Lehnsherr, VostroyanFirstClass (x4), midget_overlord, Timofeo, Makutsu, Eclipseone (x2), Krug001, JHall, Neomagicwarrior, Vygoth, Eldarain (x5), Green is Best!, Acardia, Exalbaru, ephrael, MadCowCrazy, pretre, kusanagi68, Theevilone, bd1085, wreeper007, Soccerlfb6, bagelboy71, Masakik, xghostmakerx, Mecha_buddha, Grimwulfe, saleen302 (2), thormar, manvas, iStompya, Farboozle, GearheadXII (x2), Spartan289, marcus.iscariat, Sannaga, Spikes, Gamerely, Catfiish, Physh, skavenmatt
YouTube channel for new batreps and other content: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBasementCollective
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2013/11/11 06:56:34
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan
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I see nothing to indicate it would be a 3+. Have I missed something?
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2013/11/11 07:10:44
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Focused Fire Warrior
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It specifically says 4+ in the rulebook...
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 Necrons
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2013/11/11 11:10:24
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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The rule book tells us it is an Aegis Defence Line (Battlefield Debris : Defence Lines).
Look up Battlefield Debris, Defence Lines and it tells us they follow the rules for barricades and walls.
What do barricades and walls confer for a cover save?
I know it's not straight forward and right in your face, but it's not hard to find.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 11:10:49
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2013/11/11 11:23:04
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
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Rorschach9 wrote:
I know it's not straight forward and right in your face, but it's not hard to find.
Rorschach - the nice face of newbie education.
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2013/11/11 13:15:16
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Chrysis wrote:I see nothing to indicate it would be a 3+. Have I missed something?
there is a fluff line in there that says a gone to ground IG would get that value.
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2013/11/11 13:26:18
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Dakka Veteran
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The OP didn't ask what the cover save of an IG unit GTG has. He asked what cover save the Aegis itself conferred.
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2013/11/11 14:08:11
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Dakka Veteran
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Thanks guys, I was confused by where it says fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
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(60) Successful Trades With: coffinofstone (x2), Mike94656, kungfujew, LOS Not Needed, Uriels_Flame (x3), redthirst, Lehnsherr, VostroyanFirstClass (x4), midget_overlord, Timofeo, Makutsu, Eclipseone (x2), Krug001, JHall, Neomagicwarrior, Vygoth, Eldarain (x5), Green is Best!, Acardia, Exalbaru, ephrael, MadCowCrazy, pretre, kusanagi68, Theevilone, bd1085, wreeper007, Soccerlfb6, bagelboy71, Masakik, xghostmakerx, Mecha_buddha, Grimwulfe, saleen302 (2), thormar, manvas, iStompya, Farboozle, GearheadXII (x2), Spartan289, marcus.iscariat, Sannaga, Spikes, Gamerely, Catfiish, Physh, skavenmatt
YouTube channel for new batreps and other content: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBasementCollective
Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TBMCV |
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2013/11/11 14:28:23
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Abel
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twinner wrote:Thanks guys, I was confused by where it says fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
The Aegis Defense Line is a Fortification, yes, but the entry on Pg. 114 says " Terrain Type: Battlefield Debris (Defense Lines)."
This should send you to pg. 104- "Battlefield Debris: The Basics", and under Defense Lines, it says "Defense lines follow the same rules for barricades and walls except that a unit that decides to Go to Ground behind a defense line gains +2 to its cover save, rather then +1."
Under Barricades and Walls, same page: "If a model is in cover behind a barricade or wall, it has a 4+ cover save."
An Aegis Defense Line gives you a 4++ Cover Save, and if you go to ground behind it, it jumps up to a 2++.
Don't get confused by Ruins, Buildings, and Fortifications- they have different rules as well.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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2013/11/11 15:14:50
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Dakka Veteran
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twinner wrote:Thanks guys, I was confused by where it says fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
I think GW promptly forgot they ever wrote that.
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2013/11/11 17:51:40
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Pyrian wrote:twinner wrote:Thanks guys, I was confused by where it says fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
I think GW promptly forgot they ever wrote that.
Or it is more for "Fortified Positions"; then the FOC Fortifications(Which is how we play it).
Yet another case of GW using the same term for multiple different applications
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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2013/11/11 20:13:14
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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 Kommissar Kel wrote:Pyrian wrote:twinner wrote:Thanks guys, I was confused by where it says fortifications give a 3+ cover save.
I think GW promptly forgot they ever wrote that.
Or it is more for "Fortified Positions"; then the FOC Fortifications(Which is how we play it).
Yet another case of GW using the same term for multiple different applications
That's how I see it, too. They're using the general term "fortifications" rather than the game-defined Fortifications.
Even if this isn't the case, I think this would still come down to a specific rule vs general rule. Fortifications generally give a 3+ cover save, but an ADL specifically gives a 4+.
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2013/11/12 02:47:24
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Now here is a add-on question, how far away from the line do you have to be to get said +4 cover save?
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2013/11/12 02:50:04
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan
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lynxstrife wrote:Now here is a add-on question, how far away from the line do you have to be to get said +4 cover save?
How long is a piece of string?
It depends entirely on relative model sizes and elevations. True Line of Sight is the order of the day. If it obscures a model enough to grant a cover save, it grants a 4+.
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2013/11/12 02:56:57
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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lynxstrife wrote:Now here is a add-on question, how far away from the line do you have to be to get said +4 cover save?
Distance to and from the ADL has absolutely no effect on determining cover. It is solely by true line of sight
Is the model at least 25% obscured? is that obscurement from the ADL? if yes then your getting a 4+ cover save
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2013/11/12 03:10:17
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 03:10:36
LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
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"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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2013/11/12 03:12:55
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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First you need to prove the string actually exists.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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2013/11/12 03:21:46
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Dakka Veteran
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So if I am behind the ADL, and they are right up in front of it. I don't get my cover?
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(60) Successful Trades With: coffinofstone (x2), Mike94656, kungfujew, LOS Not Needed, Uriels_Flame (x3), redthirst, Lehnsherr, VostroyanFirstClass (x4), midget_overlord, Timofeo, Makutsu, Eclipseone (x2), Krug001, JHall, Neomagicwarrior, Vygoth, Eldarain (x5), Green is Best!, Acardia, Exalbaru, ephrael, MadCowCrazy, pretre, kusanagi68, Theevilone, bd1085, wreeper007, Soccerlfb6, bagelboy71, Masakik, xghostmakerx, Mecha_buddha, Grimwulfe, saleen302 (2), thormar, manvas, iStompya, Farboozle, GearheadXII (x2), Spartan289, marcus.iscariat, Sannaga, Spikes, Gamerely, Catfiish, Physh, skavenmatt
YouTube channel for new batreps and other content: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBasementCollective
Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TBMCV |
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2013/11/12 03:24:50
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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twinner wrote:So if I am behind the ADL, and they are right up in front of it. I don't get my cover?
you keep asking questions that don't have any relevance to getting cover saves at all
The only question that matters is "is the target being obscured" and you'll only be able to answer that by physically checking the models true line of sight to the target
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 03:26:05
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2013/11/12 03:50:39
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The reason I ask is due too people telling me I have to be within 2" of the ADL to get the save.
Funny how people make stuff up I guess.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 03:53:01
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2013/11/12 04:18:50
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Focused Fire Warrior
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Well the way our group plays it..
if your unit us up against the wall, you get the cover save.. and if your shooting at something 12" away.. then it doesn't...
but if you are both 12" away and shooting at each other.. then you would both benefit from the cover because you are both shooting thru it
Maybe the 2" thing he was referring to was that you get to shoot thru it if your that close?
Im not sure
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Necrons
Tau |
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2013/11/12 04:48:09
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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 KonTheory wrote:Well the way our group plays it..
if your unit us up against the wall, you get the cover save.. and if your shooting at something 12" away.. then it doesn't...
but if you are both 12" away and shooting at each other.. then you would both benefit from the cover because you are both shooting thru it
Maybe the 2" thing he was referring to was that you get to shoot thru it if your that close?
Im not sure
this is all house rules just to be clear.
The 2" rule does not exist in the rule book. The closest you get is in determining what is in base contact for close combat but that no effect on determining cover
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2013/11/12 05:08:09
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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lynxstrife wrote:The reason I ask is due too people telling me I have to be within 2" of the ADL to get the save.
The quick and easy counter to that claim is to ask them to show you that rule.
When they can't, and after they have insisted that it must have been in an FAQ and can't product that either, you ignore it and carry on with the game.
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2013/11/12 10:13:54
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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 insaniak wrote:lynxstrife wrote:The reason I ask is due too people telling me I have to be within 2" of the ADL to get the save.
The quick and easy counter to that claim is to ask them to show you that rule.
When they can't, and after they have insisted that it must have been in an FAQ and can't product that either, you ignore it and carry on with the game.
Insaniak hit it on the head again, he is 100% correct.
If you are questioning a rule always have your opponent show you the rule in the rule book. That way you can read for yourself exactly what is there. Nothing more nothing less.
They will not be able to find a rule about needing to be within 2 inches of the ADL to claim a cover save.
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2013/11/12 11:57:33
Subject: Aegis Defense Line
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 DeathReaper wrote: insaniak wrote:lynxstrife wrote:The reason I ask is due too people telling me I have to be within 2" of the ADL to get the save.
The quick and easy counter to that claim is to ask them to show you that rule.
When they can't, and after they have insisted that it must have been in an FAQ and can't product that either, you ignore it and carry on with the game.
Insaniak hit it on the head again, he is 100% correct.
If you are questioning a rule always have your opponent show you the rule in the rule book. That way you can read for yourself exactly what is there. Nothing more nothing less.
They will not be able to find a rule about needing to be within 2 inches of the ADL to claim a cover save.
Yep, I was hit by this requirement (the 2" rule) at a campaign weekend in Bristol - except I was claiming a save from THEIR aegis line.
They also cameup witht this 2" idea (which is possibly related to the 5th edition area terrain rule for shooting out of area terrain) but could not provide the rule when asked.
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